Ultra Newbie building HT - many questions

**INCINERATE** · **02-15-08, 01:08 PM**

Hey everyone - I'm finishing off my basement and I have an area that will be used for my home theater. The set up I'm trying to accomplish is fairly basic compared to most on this forum. But I'm fairly clueless and need some assistance.

I basically just want a plasma mounted on the ball with a surround sound system. In the picture below you can basically see where the plasma would be mounted. I'd also like to have speakers mounted on the same wall, and the rear speakers mounted on the 6"x6" pillars as you can see in the picture. Where would you guys recommend the center channel and sub be placed in this layout along with other components such as DVD player, cable box, etc. I also need to know what all wiring I need in place and where this all needs to go.

Right now all that is in place are the studs for the walls. No wiring on any kind is in place yet. And I do not have the plasma or surround sound system purchased or even selected yet.

**bpape** · **02-15-08, 01:15 PM**

Welcome to the Shack!

If placement is still open to debate, I'd recommend either moving everything to the left or rotating it to put it on the right wall.

Where it is now, you're way out of symmetry which will cause bass, reflection, and imaging issues. Moving over will help that.

Rotating the setup is even better as you can get some symmetry and have more distance behind your head for better surround experiences.

Bryan

**INCINERATE** · **02-15-08, 01:51 PM**

Quote:

bpape wrote:

Welcome to the Shack!

If placement is still open to debate, I'd recommend either moving everything to the left or rotating it to put it on the right wall.

Where it is now, you're way out of symmetry which will cause bass, reflection, and imaging issues. Moving over will help that.

Rotating the setup is even better as you can get some symmetry and have more distance behind your head for better surround experiences.

Bryan

Hey, thanks for the suggestion. So are you saying something like this?

One thing to mention, ideally I'd like my rear speakers mounted somewhere, not on stands behind the seating area.

**MatrixDweller** · **02-18-08, 12:17 AM**

Probably something more along the lines of this for symmetry. Also in 5.1 the surrounds should be at the side. In 7.1 you would add two more "rear" speakers.

**bpape** · **02-18-08, 06:04 AM**

2nd one is more symmetric but not sure what you can do with seating.

Also, just to be clear, with 5.1, the surrounds are at approx 135 degrees to the viewing axis.

Bryan

**MatrixDweller** · **02-18-08, 11:52 AM**

The problem with the second one is that the left side speakers are in corners and the front rights are on an open wall (the grey is a half wall I take it). The corner loading of the left side will cause some acoustical issues. It's not an optimal setup, but will work with the seating. Some treatments on the wall will help mitigate the problem but not remove it.

The problem with my diagram is how to fit the seating into place. Do you already have the furniture? If not then a sectional might fit nicely wrapping around the half-wall and up the right wall. 4 or more single recliner chairs might fit in there also.

**INCINERATE** · **02-18-08, 03:02 PM**

Thanks again for the responses. I've decided to go with a 7.1 system instead of the 5.1. So I've added the two side speakers.

I know the configuration of the walls isn't the best for what the room is being used for, but it's what I have to work with. And I know that second 2 seat couch on the side is not ideal either. But think of this as more of a family room than a home theater designed to perfection. I'm just trying to come up with the most intelligent layout I can with what I have to work with.

I just purchased speaker cable that will be in the walls. I got 100' of Monster XPHP-CI. Any thoughts or opinions on that?

Also, I couldn't find an in wall rated sub cable at Best Buy. But I did find the Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 on their web site. Any thoughts or opinions on that cable?

Here is an updated pic with the two side speakers added. Note, the one of the right side would be attached to boxed off ducked work that comes down about 12" from the ceiling (ceiling is normally 7' tall).

**bpape** · **02-18-08, 05:11 PM**

Save your money on the Monster. Look at www.avcables.com. Same or better cable for less money. You can also look at www.monoprice.com

Any CL2 rated 12ga is more than sufficient.

Bryan

**bonehead848** · **02-18-08, 05:41 PM**

Quote:

bpape wrote:

Save your money on the Monster. Look at www.avcables.com. Same or better cable for less money. You can also look at www.monoprice.com

Any CL2 rated 12ga is more than sufficient.

Bryan

Agreed, i have the cl2 rated from monoprice for my surrounds it it sounds great! Also, blue jeans cables are very respected.

**MatrixDweller** · **02-18-08, 05:50 PM**

Triple that recommendation. The Monster wire is way over priced and the standard 14 gauge CL2 wire from monoprice will be equal in performance yet 1/3 the cost. You could upgrade to the 12 gauge if you wanted to spend more. The only thing about ordering wire online is you pay a lot of shipping.

**bonehead848** · **02-18-08, 05:54 PM**

Quote:

MatrixDweller wrote:

Triple that recommendation. The Monster wire is way over priced and the standard 14 gauge CL2 wire from monoprice will be equal in performance yet 1/3 the cost. You could upgrade to the 12 gauge if you wanted to spend more. The only thing about ordering wire online is you pay a lot of shipping.

At least your money is going to something. Id rather pay money into shipping than into senseless markups done by bb.

**INCINERATE** · **02-19-08, 05:32 PM**

OK, so I returned the 100' of Monster speaker wire ($138) and picked up 150' of CL-2 12 gauge at monoprice for $58 including the shipping.

Another question - I'm thinking of having my sub very near or possibly under my HT components, which will be on shelves mounted on the wall (indicated in blue). Does anyone see a problem with the sub located this close to the HT components or even underneath it. And when I say underneath, it wouldn't be enclosed from all sides, just probably a shelf a few inches above it would be it.

See below -

**bpape** · **02-19-08, 05:39 PM**

I don't see it as a problem with relation to the components. I do see an issue with it being in a corner. I'd wire to have a couple of options as to where to put it and the corner is usually my last resort.

Bryan

**MatrixDweller** · **02-19-08, 05:57 PM**

- On the speaker wire.

You should not enclose the sub in a cabinet. Why not is the same reason why you shouldn't put it in a corner. The reflections will build up and cause muddy bass. Where you had it before was better. The rears should be closer together in the center also. See the THX guide for 7.1 speaker layout.

http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/71.html

They don't have to be as close as they have it, but closer is better according to them.

**INCINERATE** · **02-19-08, 10:32 PM**

Quote:

MatrixDweller wrote:

- On the speaker wire.

You should not enclose the sub in a cabinet. Why not is the same reason why you shouldn't put it in a corner. The reflections will build up and cause muddy bass. Where you had it before was better. The rears should be closer together in the center also. See the THX guide for 7.1 speaker layout.

http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/71.html

They don't have to be as close as they have it, but closer is better according to them.

Yeah, it felt good to return the Monster cable to Best Buy. I usually avoid shopping there at all costs as I can't stand the people that work there and I know you can usually get stuff cheaper online. But being an ignorant newbie, I ran to Best Buy. When I returned it, the guy at the counter asked if there was anything wrong with it. I said yeah, the price, I got the same thing online for $100 less.

OK, I sorta thought that about the sub, that's why I had it more toward the middle orginally, but then I started seeing many others with subs sort of in the corner, so I thought maybe it was no big deal. I move it then.

And yeah, I know the rear speakers are not in the ideal location. But due to the layout of the walls, that is my only option. I will angle them so they point toward the listener though. And thought I read somewhere that most 7.1 systems have an internal setting for this sort of rear speakers set up. I could be wrong about that. Anyone know if that is the case or not?

**bonehead848** · **02-19-08, 10:52 PM**

The thing about the sub is that when it is in the corner the response becomes very peaky. Some like this because it enhances some frequencies (while degrading others) and can make the bass sound much louder. You may want to try it here and then try it in other locations. Just dont feal like you "cant" put it somewhere because everyones taste is different. For a flat response stay away from the corner but if I were you I would not decide on a spot until you have tried out every spot you can!

And as everyone else said

on returning the monster

**INCINERATE** · **02-20-08, 07:21 AM**

Quote:

bonehead848 wrote:

The thing about the sub is that when it is in the corner the response becomes very peaky. Some like this because it enhances some frequencies (while degrading others) and can make the bass sound much louder. You may want to try it here and then try it in other locations. Just dont feal like you "cant" put it somewhere because everyones taste is different. For a flat response stay away from the corner but if I were you I would not decide on a spot until you have tried out every spot you can!

And as everyone else said

on returning the monster

Well, the thing is I was planning on putting all speaker wire in the walls, so I sorta need to know ahead of time where the sub is going so I'll know where to route the sub cable to. Moving it around later really won't be an option. Is this going to be a bad thing for me? Do others route their sub cables in the walls?

**MatrixDweller** · **02-20-08, 10:48 AM**

A lot of people do, but some die hards do not so that they can move the sub around to find the ideal position. If you were to put it in wall you should use RG6 coaxial cable. It's the cheapest and probably the best cable for subs as it is pretty close to 75ohm. You could run a couple different runs through your walls to future proof (ie: one on the right and left sides of the room). RCA wallplates can be purchased from monoprice also.

What are you doing about electricity? You may want to plan the outlets to coincide with where your sub will be. Also a dedicated circuit for your HT gear is recommended if it's an option. It also looks like you have several other rooms down there. It might be smart to wire them at the same time while the walls are still just studs.

Does your room have lighting set up yet? You should decide what type (ie: recessed, track, surface mount, wall sconces, low voltage, line voltage, etc). There's also lighting control and or zones, dimmers, 3 way switches, etc. Where I live it's code to have a three-way switch at the top and bottom of stairs to illuminate the stair well. Yo might also want to look into permits for the electrical for insurance purposes. If your house burned down and the adjuster determined it was caused by the new electrical addition you'll be screwed if it was done without a permit and not certified. The permit for my basement was only $170. Well worth it in my opinion.

**INCINERATE** · **02-20-08, 12:53 PM**

Quote:

MatrixDweller wrote:

A lot of people do, but some die hards do not so that they can move the sub around to find the ideal position. If you were to put it in wall you should use RG6 coaxial cable. It's the cheapest and probably the best cable for subs as it is pretty close to 75ohm. You could run a couple different runs through your walls to future proof (ie: one on the right and left sides of the room). RCA wallplates can be purchased from monoprice also.

What are you doing about electricity? You may want to plan the outlets to coincide with where your sub will be. Also a dedicated circuit for your HT gear is recommended if it's an option. It also looks like you have several other rooms down there. It might be smart to wire them at the same time while the walls are still just studs.

Does your room have lighting set up yet? You should decide what type (ie: recessed, track, surface mount, wall sconces, low voltage, line voltage, etc). There's also lighting control and or zones, dimmers, 3 way switches, etc. Where I live it's code to have a three-way switch at the top and bottom of stairs to illuminate the stair well. Yo might also want to look into permits for the electrical for insurance purposes. If your house burned down and the adjuster determined it was caused by the new electrical addition you'll be screwed if it was done without a permit and not certified. The permit for my basement was only $170. Well worth it in my opinion.

Well, for the sub cable, I was looking at the sub cables that Blue Jeans makes. They are rated for in-wall use. What do you think of those? I was going to have wall plates, but I was going to have the kind that just allow the cable to hang out of the wall. That way it's a direct connection from the speakers/sub to the HT receiver.

The electrical is all new. That is actually the stage I'm at right now. Yes, all outlets were put in proper locations, with the exception of the outlet needed for the plasma on the wall, which will be done much later when the plasma is actually purchased and I know exactly were it is being mounted. The other side of the wall where the plasma is going will remain open for quite a while (no drywall on the other side) for a future bathroom. So adding a new outlet there will be easy since the other side of the wall will be exposed. I do sort of regret not planning the circuits so that the HT system would have it's own dedicated circuit. But I'm sure that won't be a huge issue. Will it?

Yes, this room (and all other rooms) has recessed lighting. The lights in this room will be controlled by a dimmer. I heard that cheap dimmers can cause a hum in your audio. Anyone know how much money one should spend on a quality dimmer? I was looking at some digital dimmers that were around $30 each. And yes, there is a light for the stairs, with a switch at the top and one at the bottom. I didn't get a permit for the electrical work though. But it does sound like a smart idea for insurance purposes if anything. I'm not doing the electrical myself though. My father is an electrician and he is doing most of the work while I help out with the grunt work.

Once all the electrical, new phone lines, cable TV lines, and speaker wiring is done, all exterior walls will be insulated with R-15 and the ceilings will be insulated with R-19 for sound proofing. All internal walls around this HT room will also be insulated to help with sound proofing.

I'll probably start providing pictures of my progress like others here have done, even though my room isn't going to be as cool as others on here.

**INCINERATE** · **02-26-08, 10:10 PM**

Question about running speaker wire in walls.

I've read that running speaker wire parrallel with AC power lines in the walls is a not good and that even passing cross a power line perpendicular should even be avoided if possible. What if I have no choice but to run a speaker wire perpendicular with a power line? Is there anything I can do to help increase the shielding?

Also, what about other lines in the walls and ceilings, such as phone lines, or coax lines for cable television? Can speaker wire run parrallel or perpendicular with these types of lines?

And lastly, is is OK to run two speaker wires going to two different speakers parrallel along side each other in a wall?

BTW - I'm using 12 gauge CL-2 speaker wire from monoprice.

**bpape** · **02-27-08, 05:05 AM**

Speaker wire won't be messed up by running parallel with 110v. That said, I wouldn't run it right next to it for 500ft either. Low level cables like sub cabling, video, etc. IS very sensitive to being run right next to 110v and it should be avoided.

Running low level and speaker together should cause no problems.

Bryan

**MatrixDweller** · **02-27-08, 06:56 AM**

Try to get some distance between the line voltage and the other wires. Parallel is ok, but not touching. If it's a foot or so apart it shouldn't matter. You may just have to drill a few holes in the studs. The other low voltage wires should be fine if bundled with the speakers wire.

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