Cedar Creek Cinema

**Sonnie** · **08-22-09, 11:40 AM**

It has been my experience in the two rooms I have built that having more subs (front and rear) has been beneficial for all listening positions. In the previous room I tried front and sides (multiple locations on the sides with multiple phase alignments)... it was not until I placed the subs front and back that I got the best response for any listening position. The response was almost good enough for no equalization, but I did use Audyssey MultEQ. I actually have a thread Sub locations that shows a few of those test placements and measurements. There was also some crossover adjustments that had to be made with the rear.

In the new room, turning off either the back or front subs causes major issues. Having all four subs playing is not perfect by any means, but it is much better than having just front or just back. The back row is a little bit, not much, but a little bit hotter than the front row, with the front row being closer to flat. I tried running my Martin Logan Prodigy's full range (a pair of 10" subs in each speaker), but it ill effected the low end, so crossing them over at 80Hz seems to be best for the room response. However, it would be interesting to see what a pair of subs on each side about 1/3 and 1/2 located would do to the response.

**tonyvdb** · **08-22-09, 12:00 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

However, it would be interesting to see what a pair of subs on each side about 1/3 and 1/2 located would do to the response.

Do I see another pair of subs in your future Sonnie?

**Sonnie** · **08-22-09, 12:20 PM**

Oh no... but I would not mind borrowing a pair of PB13's.

**wes** · **08-22-09, 03:54 PM**

Sonnie,

Absolutely amazing very nice set-up. I come to LA often may be I will stop by one of these days.

I am in the process of finishing my music room which serves once in a while as a movie room.

I will post in in a couple of weeks. I wish I could put 4 subs in my room but it might be a bit much.

Again congratulation

**Sonnie** · **08-22-09, 06:07 PM**

Thanks wes... and indeed if you ever are over this way... do give me a shout and stop on by.

**recruit** · **09-17-09, 04:40 AM**

WOW

that is one serious Home Cinema Sonnie !!

I am looking at getting the new Panasonic PT AE4000 PJ once it is availible, have been without one for approx a year and seriously miss it...

**Sonnie** · **09-17-09, 09:53 AM**

Thanks John...

We have really enjoyed the 3000 and I am sure the 4000 will be even better.

**SQCherokee** · **09-19-09, 12:22 AM**

I was pretty dead set on def tech speakers for my eventual theater...however, while in denver this week my dad and I went to a BB with a magnolia store and I got to listen to the def tech 7006's then a pair of martin logan source's. what a difference, the martins are probably the best sounding speakers in that price range that I have heard and I have never had my mind changed in a split second like that! WOW!

**JimP** · **09-19-09, 07:20 AM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

It has been my experience in the two rooms I have built that having more subs (front and rear) has been beneficial for all listening positions. In the previous room I tried front and sides (multiple locations on the sides with multiple phase alignments)... it was not until I placed the subs front and back that I got the best response for any listening position. The response was almost good enough for no equalization, but I did use Audyssey MultEQ. I actually have a thread Sub locations that shows a few of those test placements and measurements. There was also some crossover adjustments that had to be made with the rear.

In the new room, turning off either the back or front subs causes major issues. Having all four subs playing is not perfect by any means, but it is much better than having just front or just back. The back row is a little bit, not much, but a little bit hotter than the front row, with the front row being closer to flat. I tried running my Martin Logan Prodigy's full range (a pair of 10" subs in each speaker), but it ill effected the low end, so crossing them over at 80Hz seems to be best for the room response. However, it would be interesting to see what a pair of subs on each side about 1/3 and 1/2 located would do to the response.

Hi Sonnie,
Look forward to someday seeing your new home theater. Being catless and all.

As for subwoofer placement, do you get the impression that what it would take would be to build a space about twice the size and keep your seating the same? That way, fewer of the seats would be at room extremes? Just an early Saturday morning thought.

**Sonnie** · **09-19-09, 01:48 PM**

Yeah... I know you will appreciate the catless atmosphere.

I am not sure on the size issue... it is hard to say. At this point I do not consider the "little bit" heavy bass on the back row to be that extreme, although a few more feet between the rear seating and the rear wall might make sense that it would help eliminate that heaviness. Funny thing is... some folks like it... they sit on the back row on purpose... especially the younger kids.

**Sonnie** · **09-19-09, 01:50 PM**

Quote:

SQCherokee wrote:

I was pretty dead set on def tech speakers for my eventual theater...however, while in denver this week my dad and I went to a BB with a magnolia store and I got to listen to the def tech 7006's then a pair of martin logan source's. what a difference, the martins are probably the best sounding speakers in that price range that I have heard and I have never had my mind changed in a split second like that! WOW!

Hi Binger... I have never hear the Source, but have heard good things about them, despite them being the lower end of their line. No doubt there are drastic differences between ML's and other speakers. Most people seem to like the differences once they have heard it.

**SQCherokee** · **09-19-09, 09:47 PM**

real names brian, binger is just a nick name I've had since highschool, its just what I use to make me identifiable on all the web forums yet keeps me somewhat anonymous when I feel the need to be.

The sales guy was using a denon blu ray player and their new reciver that sells for just shy of $500. the demo disc was something from a godsmack concert that has a dualing drum solo thing. It is very well recorded and the martins just presented so much more of the resonance and tone of the drum bodies. The cymbals sounded much clearer as well. He had a deftech 10" sub playing as well and it sounded like it was crossed at about 120ish...it blended very well with the speakers. ML's site says the x/0 is at 470hz so I don't know how low the woofer plays, but its only a single 8" so its not gona shake the house by any means.

**Jester** · **10-10-09, 08:28 AM**

That's a very impressive HT. Somehow I get the distinct feeling that I'm over my head. I've got a lot to learn! Oh well, I've got the time.

**Sonnie** · **10-10-09, 08:47 AM**

Thanks Jester... if you have the time... we definitely have an excellent staff and great members to help you through it all.

Welcome to the Shack!

**seattle_ice** · **10-10-09, 10:30 AM**

All of it looks very nice!

Does having the light color on the walls on either side of the screen show up much during a movie? I saw that you have the fabric on the ceiling, but the walls are light.

**Sonnie** · **10-10-09, 10:49 AM**

Thanks Darryn... and no, the light walls are not an issue at all.

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