Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is? - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 02:23 PM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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tonyvdb wrote: View Post
I agree, but the Yamaha RX-A3000 is also 38lbs so on the heaver side.
To prove my point is the review of the Onkyo 805 which is still possibly one of the strongest receivers ever made weighing in at 55lbs measured 270watts into 2 channels at a 4ohm load and 173 watts into an 8ohm load
http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14...06-part-5.html

So no matter how you slice it my stance that a heaver receiver will still outperform one that weighs in at only 25 or less lbs still stands.

That Onkyo was a formidable AVR and I'm not arguing that. But, make sure we're talking about the same class of amplifier as there are many Class D amps that are much lighter than 55 pounds that will easily keep up or surpass the Onkyo. My points are these; unqualified generalizations shouldn't be made and weight alone is no way of determining the quality of an amplifier. The 2nd point is ACDs tests are bogus for the following reasons; a) Its not a real life scenario where all channels in AVR are receiving full bandwidth signals at the same amplitude, and b)...it really only tests the sensitivity of the protection circuit. These are my points.
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post #12 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 02:31 PM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

You did not read my earlier poost as i clearly said I am taling about A/B amplification not Class D

I think you might have missed my edit in the previous post:
regarding source material not needing more than 65watts of power Ive linked to several different places in the past and Im not going to bother trying to find them now but in one test done a simple snare drum was hit hard and that induced a draw on the amp of somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 watts at a level of 90db so there is plenty of musical instruments alone that can task an amp and movie soundtracks are even more demanding these days sending information to all 7 channels at high levels.

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post #13 of 28 Old 07-15-16, 07:22 AM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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tonyvdb wrote: View Post
You did not read my earlier poost as i clearly said I am taling about A/B amplification not Class D
Ok.. as long as there is some qualification around generalizations.

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tonyvdb wrote: View Post
I think you might have missed my edit in the previous post:
regarding source material not needing more than 65watts of power Ive linked to several different places in the past and Im not going to bother trying to find them now but in one test done a simple snare drum was hit hard and that induced a draw on the amp of somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 watts at a level of 90db so there is plenty of musical instruments alone that can task an amp and movie soundtracks are even more demanding these days sending information to all 7 channels at high levels.
What you have demonstrated with your measurements is that you saw one or perhaps two channels with a temporary or instantaneous peek draw. This is far from the ACD which is based on much longer time periods or steady state. The signal of a drum thwack is also bandwidth limited. Even the lighter amps can provide instantaneous power draw but the heavier amps can do it for a longer periods of time before they too run out of power. My point still stands that ACD tests are unrealistic as not all channels contain full bandwidth signals at the same levels.

Generally, when one is building a home theater or audio room, one should purchase the speakers first to best meet the room size and desired volume levels and match the AVR's power capabilities of driving into 2 channels, the volume desired coupled with the speaker's sensitivities and load impedances. If one has a small room and doesn't require or demand earth shattering SPLs coupled with easy to drive speakers, then a lightweight AVR will perform in that environment to the same level as a heavy weight AVR.
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post #14 of 28 Old 08-01-16, 02:22 AM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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asere wrote: View Post
It seems like modern receivers are becoming lighter and lighter. Sure most are loaded with bells and whistles like the new Denon avr x3300w with XT32 yet it only weights around 24 lbs.

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I like to think it does but times are changing. I can only answer this question as being an owner of a 67kg monster that has never let me down and is a renowned beast of an amp.I have the Denon POA-A1HD and can vouch for its build and reliability.My matching Denon pre/pro is a 32kg monster and is as reliable as my amp provided i keep it like that. On the other hand i have a pioneer sclx86 receiver at 17kg and that too is reliable as i keep it dust free. Some Mark levinson amps are on the light side and we all know how good they are.Well when i say light i mean in comparison to my POA. Also to note that i know off a good few people have upgraded from the denon AVPA1HD 32kg monster to the marantz 8802 at around 17kg but it is the latest pre/pro with the bells and whistles.So people are sacrificing build quality for the latest bells and whistles and they are people that have experience in home theater and audio.But i think weight and build do matter to a degree. Too early for me to invest in a tin box yet but times are slowly changing again. The photo below is the delivery of my 67kg amp.
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post #15 of 28 Old 10-28-16, 12:24 AM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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3dbinCanada wrote: View Post
Without knowing what part of the AVR went on a weightloss diet, one simply cannot equate weight with power. It doesn't work like that.
I think you are correct to a degree depending on the make off the amp.On the other hand I feel the weight of an amp can contribute to the reliability and even that depends on the maker also.I know one thing for sure and that being that I have tried 2 different amps with my Denon Avp and my Poa has more grunt and gut feeling after my test than the lighter amp which was rated at 190 watt per channel.This test I did was for movies only though and was not thorough but all the same I did notice a difference without getting into splitting hairs.I have always been of the opinion that it does matter but I could be wrong.

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post #16 of 28 Old 10-28-16, 02:17 PM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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I think you are correct to a degree depending on the make off the amp.On the other hand I feel the weight of an amp can contribute to the reliability and even that depends on the maker also.I know one thing for sure and that being that I have tried 2 different amps with my Denon Avp and my Poa has more grunt and gut feeling after my test than the lighter amp which was rated at 190 watt per channel.This test I did was for movies only though and was not thorough but all the same I did notice a difference without getting into splitting hairs.I have always been of the opinion that it does matter but I could be wrong.
By specifying the manufacturer and model, you are already adding qualifications. I stand by argument that unqualified generalizations shouldn't be made and weight alone is no way of determining the quality of an amplifier.
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post #17 of 28 Old 10-28-16, 08:01 PM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

I find this subject really interesting and have always thought about this topic but have never posted anything on it.I have always owned heavy amps and have always thought that the heavier the amp the better due to the fact of what parts are being used.But yet again I am not a tech and don't know how to build one.I also have been in the state of mind that anything less than 17kg is a tin box.I don't know if I should be thinking like that.
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post #18 of 28 Old 10-28-16, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
asere wrote: View Post
Yes I know D amps weigh less and are much cooler but A/B amps they seem to be really light these days. That's why I'm wondering how well can they drive the speakers being so light.
Our 805 can drive just about any speaker without breaking a sweat. You then upgrade avr for the modern audio preprocessing but you get a feather amp. It seems like a trade off.

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You know that's a good point you bring up about the speakers,as my Yamaha Hx speakers according to a reviewer perform better with more power.Well in short they are power hungry.I now gather that the current amp I have and are using is suited to my speakers better than my pioneer.My pioneer weighs around 15kg and my Denon 67kg.The specs on paper as far as watts go is very similar between the two amps but because the heavier amp being the Denon is way heavier and sounds better to my ears I am putting it down to build quality hence the weight.Like I said before I am no tech and have no knowelege of putting an amp together but I can feel the difference in movies between the two amps.I can hear the difference in the vocals believe it or not the Denon has more depth and tends to go lower.But I must add one important aspect of my test and that with the pioneer being a receiver I was using its multichannel inputs and only its amp section as I paired it with my Avpa1hd and it is not a dedicated amp as such.Bit still it's amp is Rated by pioneer at 190 watts per Chanel.The Denon on the other hand is the matching amp to same pre/pro that I tested the pioneer with so I can also understand why it sounds better,plus being a dedicated amp.The test I did was not a true test in terms of so called fairness but I was happy still with my Denon and came to the end conclusion that the money I spent on it and the choice I made was correct.
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post #19 of 28 Old 10-29-16, 11:13 AM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

For this thread to have more merrit, let's restrict the arguments to the same amplifier class, avr to avr, power amp to power amp. If these conditions are met, I believe the heavier unit would have more power reserves if the weight added is due to a more powerful and robust power supply. The other point I would like to make is that a more powerful amp doesn't make a less powerful amp (assuming conditions met that I outlined above) of lesser quality. If one never uses the full potential of a more powerful amp, then the less powerful would work just as cleanly. The take away I've learned in this thread is to match one's amp to both the speaker's load and room size.
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post #20 of 28 Old 10-30-16, 06:02 AM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

Yea I agree and I think matching the hatch is very important too.I am very fortunate that I have a building 8x5 metres out back soundproofed and dedicated which justifies my Denon otherwise I would really not need it.In that case I think it matters to the extent of the open possibilities of a heavier amp in my case.I love the macintosh amps too and they are a little on the heavy side also.I love their new pre/pro,s.The mx160 would be an awesome pre with all the latest bells and whistles.
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