Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is? - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

It seems like modern receivers are becoming lighter and lighter. Sure most are loaded with bells and whistles like the new Denon avr x3300w with XT32 yet it only weights around 24 lbs.

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post #2 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 09:30 AM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

Depends on what type of amps it uses. if they use class D amps there would be less weight than traditional A/B amps. Remember my post a couple years ago, it seemed to indicate that for receivers with A/B amplification weight did make a difference driving more than two channels because of the larger power supply..
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Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
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post #3 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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tonyvdb wrote: View Post
Depends on what type of amps it uses. if they use class D amps there would be less weight than traditional A/B amps. Remember my post a couple years ago, it seemed to indicate that for receivers with A/B amplification weight did make a difference driving more than two channels because of the larger power supply..
Yes I know D amps weigh less and are much cooler but A/B amps they seem to be really light these days. That's why I'm wondering how well can they drive the speakers being so light.
Our 805 can drive just about any speaker without breaking a sweat. You then upgrade avr for the modern audio preprocessing but you get a feather amp. It seems like a trade off.

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post #4 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 09:52 AM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

well the Denon X7200 weighs in at 37lbs (our Onkyo 805 weighs 55lbs) and bench tests on the X7200 get fairly decent results at 122 watts 5 channels driven. So I would say that there is some reduction in weight in other areas as well.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #5 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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tonyvdb wrote: View Post
well the Denon X7200 weighs in at 37lbs (our Onkyo 805 weighs 55lbs) and bench tests on the X7200 get fairly decent results at 122 watts 5 channels driven. So I would say that there is some reduction in weight in other areas as well.
Yeah and the x7200 is more than twice the price of the 805. More features but weights less.

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post #6 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 11:43 AM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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tonyvdb wrote: View Post
well the Denon X7200 weighs in at 37lbs (our Onkyo 805 weighs 55lbs) and bench tests on the X7200 get fairly decent results at 122 watts 5 channels driven. So I would say that there is some reduction in weight in other areas as well.
Careful with ACD tests as what is really happening is that you are actually only testing the sensitivity of the protection circuit..nothing more. The 2 channels full bandwidth test are far more indicative of what an AVR can do.
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post #7 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 11:45 AM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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Yeah and the x7200 is more than twice the price of the 805. More features but weights less.

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Without knowing what part of the AVR went on a weightloss diet, one simply cannot equate weight with power. It doesn't work like that.
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post #8 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 12:21 PM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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Careful with ACD tests as what is really happening is that you are actually only testing the sensitivity of the protection circuit..nothing more. The 2 channels full bandwidth test are far more indicative of what an AVR can do.
S&V does these bench tests properly from what I understand. They do full frequency tests not just 1Khz and look for distortion so ACD tests can be reveling.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
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post #9 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 01:03 PM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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tonyvdb wrote: View Post
S&V does these bench tests properly from what I understand. They do full frequency tests not just 1Khz and look for distortion so ACD tests can be reveling.
Its nice to see that S&V is using full bandwidth in their ACD tests but this doesn't negate the fact that what is really being tested is the sensitivity setting of the protection mechanism. As an example, Yamaha typically does poorly on the ACD test because of their overly sensitive protection circuit, yet in two channel testing, stomps the competition into the dirt.

From this link; http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiv...surements-cont


The Yamaha RX-A3000 handedly exceeded its 140wpc power rating continuously with two channels driven and stomped out an impressive 236wpc both channels driven into 4 ohms; and that’s a full power bandwidth measurement (20Hz to 20kHz at 0.1% THD + N). It proved to be every bit as powerful as their more expensive RX-Z7 mode. You can see the protection circuit kick on during our ACD tests, purposely limiting power to 65wpc. In short time, there is no doubt in my mind forum lurkers seeing this will pop up on our site or AVS Forum bashing Yamaha, not realizing the design purpose of power limiting a multi channel amplifier in a compact chassis, or the reality that real world program material will never trip this limiter circuitry. Thus we conducted dynamic burst power measurements simulating real world program content. Interestingly enough the RX-A3000 delivered similar dynamic power output ACD into 8 ohm loads and slightly more power two channels driven into 4 ohm loads than the Emotiva UPA-7 dedicated multi-channel power amplifier that is designed to deliver rated power continuously into all channels as can be seen in the comparison table below.
# of CH Test Type Power Load THD + N
2 CFP-BW 140 watts 8-ohms 0.1%
2 CFP-BW 238 watts 4-ohms 0.1%
7 1kHz Psweep 108 watts 8-ohms 0.1%
7 1kHz Psweep 117 watts 8-ohms 1%
2 1kHz Psweep 240 watts 4-ohms 0.1%
2 1kHz Psweep 252 watts 4-ohms 1%
7 Dynamic PWR 156 watts 8-ohms 1%
2 Dynamic PWR 320 watts 4-ohms 1%

Emotiva UPA-7 Power Measurement Table


It's clear that the Yamaha RX-A3000 delivers more than rated power with up to two channels driven and tons of dynamic headroom (1.9dB for 8 ohms based on their 140wpc power rating). Let no skeptic tell you otherwise, the RX-A3000 has a respectable amplifier section not only for a receiver but for a modestly priced seven channel power amplifier.
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post #10 of 28 Old 07-14-16, 02:09 PM
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Re: Does the weight of the receiver determine how good the amp is?

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3dbinCanada wrote: View Post
Its nice to see that S&V is using full bandwidth in their ACD tests but this doesn't negate the fact that what is really being tested is the sensitivity setting of the protection mechanism. As an example, Yamaha typically does poorly on the ACD test because of their overly sensitive protection circuit, yet in two channel testing, stomps the competition into the dirt.
I agree, but the Yamaha RX-A3000 is also 38lbs so on the heaver side.
To prove my point is the review of the Onkyo 805 which is still possibly one of the strongest receivers ever made weighing in at 55lbs measured 270watts into 2 channels at a 4ohm load and 173 watts into an 8ohm load
http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14...06-part-5.html

So no matter how you slice it my stance that a heaver receiver will still outperform one that weighs in at only 25 or less lbs still stands.

regarding source material not needing more than 65watts of power Ive linked to several different places in the past and Im not going to bother trying to find them now but in one test done a simply snare drum was hit hard and that induced a draw on the amp of somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 watts so there is plenty of musical instruments alone that can task an amp and movie soundtracks are even more demanding these days sending information to all 7 channels at high levels.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900


Last edited by tonyvdb; 07-14-16 at 02:21 PM.
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