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Need ideas for a receiver upgrade, please!

5K views 46 replies 12 participants last post by  dane 
#1 ·
I posted this over at av123 but know some of you guys don't go there anymore...
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Long story short-- My current receiver does not have discrete analog inputs, nor does it decode DTS. So all my hopes and dreams to enjoy an upgrade to bluray have been shot-- at least for any DTS-based bluray discs such as The Princess Bride (and likely countless others). So, now I dunno WHAT to do .. I may just have to postpone the bluray upgrade for a few years until I can do that AND a receiver upgrade. I may just try and convince my wife that it's worth digging into savings. But I don't want a "cheapy" upgrade. I have Marantz receiver now.. a bit higher cost, but I've been a Marantz fan for many years. I would love to move to separates, but that would likely cost more..

So I let the floodgates open... I am all ears...

And no, I have no budget at this point. (hahaha, that does NOT mean "cost no object") Just looking for ideas...

a bit deflated now,
..dane
 
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#2 ·
Hi Dane,

I have a Marantz SR6003. Unfortunately I cannot comment on it's performance since it has been in the box since I bought it last year:crying:

I've had Marantz in the past, as well as Denon and Onkyo. The Denon and Onkyo were nice, and the Marantz was a Pro-Logic unit only, no digital, so I cannot compare apples to apples. I'd say stick with what you like because you will most likely be hard pressed to tell any real differences between brands, keeping things in the same price range anyway.
 
#3 ·
Hi Dane,

I have a Marantz SR6003. Unfortunately I cannot comment on it's performance since it has been in the box since I bought it last year:crying:

I've had Marantz in the past, as well as Denon and Onkyo. The Denon and Onkyo were nice, and the Marantz was a Pro-Logic unit only, no digital, so I cannot compare apples to apples. I'd say stick with what you like because you will most likely be hard pressed to tell any real differences between brands, keeping things in the same price range anyway.
thanks Eddy... I'm currently looking on the Accessories4Less.com site at what Marantz they have ... :)

..dane
 
#4 ·
If anyone has any recommendations for a multi-channel integrated amplifier, I'd be interested. Since I have a VP30 now for SD processing (with HD pass-through), I don't need an AV receiver anymore.. And if the bluray player has analog outs (as the Oppo BDP-80 does) then I could just go analog integrated amplifier for sound... if there are any multichannel units out there in an affordable price range...

..dane
 
#5 ·
The best bargain receiver I know of is the Pioneer 919. It doesn't have amp outs, but when used within it's wattage...absolutely fantastic sound quality and all of the new formats.

You could probably re-sell it for a large portion of what you paid should you want to upgrade whenever you want to go further.

As I usually mention...if 100 watts from a receiver isn't enough, perhaps consider mains that are more sensitive...as external amps get costly and don't add as much to overall SQ as would better speakers. Whatever you have invested in analog cables could be sold off to invest in a bluray player and HDMI cable (which can be had for nearly nothing). HDMI simplicity alone is worth the upgrade.
 
#7 ·
I guess I'm confused as to why you'd need analog inputs since most bluray players either decode the HD audio and send it on to the receiver, or some can bitstream the signal now.

We've been using a PS3 for over 2 years now solely connected to an Onkyo 805 via hdmi. Surround works fine. Admittedly I haven't been keeping up quite as much on the receiver front since we purchased the 805 though, so I'm likely speaking from an uninformed position.
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
I guess I'm confused as to why you'd need analog inputs since most bluray players either decode the HD audio and send it on to the receiver, or some can bitstream the signal now.

We've been using a PS3 for over 2 years now solely connected to an Onkyo 805 via hdmi. Surround works fine. Admittedly I haven't been keeping up quite as much on the receiver front since we purchased the 805 though, so I'm likely speaking from an uninformed position.
Well, the way I understand it, either my receiver has to decode the DTS core bitstream track (for bluray's that do not have a dolby-digital track), or it has to accept analog inputs. neither of which my receiver can do. :(

I guess another question is how many blurays are ONLY dts-based without a DD track? if not many, I may not be off too badly.. but I was looking forward to the Princess Bride on bluray..

WHOOPS...meant Pioneer 919 :whistle:

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-9...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268789205&sr=8-1

(it can be had around $350 I believe if you look around)
hahaha.. thanks, will take a look. There are some Marantz's that can be had under the $500 mark from accessories4less.com.... I just don't know how their sound quality would compare with my $1200+ Marantz from the mid 90's ... In some ways (newer) I would expect better, but in other ways (lower cost) I would be concerned worse.

..dane
 
#10 ·
With no budget in mind, see if you can pick up one of the Pioneer SC line AVR's (sc-05/SC-07 replaced by SC-25/SC-27 but very similar). These were being blown out at Best Buy's magnolia stores a month or so ago for less than $1k and pop up used on A-Gon from time to time with prices below that. Theya re great sounding AVR's, well built and offer an alternative room correction system to Audyssey that some prefer.
 
#12 ·
I'd probably go the route of finding a decent reciever from a pre/pro perspective that has 7.1 analog outputs then save up for a UPA-5 or something. That way you can get the benefits of separates but without quite the same up-front expenditure.
I actually wonder if I could just find a 5ch integrated amplifier? I don't need any video processing... But agree, I don't have a budget, but that's simply because I don't know how much I'm willing to take out of savings for something like this yet...

..dane
 
#13 ·
Dane, the last Marantz receiver I had listed at $1,100, and did not sound as good as the Denon or Onkyo. I attribute that to it's dated lack of bass management and no digital capabilities. The Denon was $350, and the Onkyo about the same as refurbs from ecost. The Marantz SR6003 I have listed at $900 I think, but got it from Accessories4less refurbed for less than $700.

Don't judge by price being at least 10 years older of a Marantz. Technology usually gets less expensive for similar performance of only a few years ago.
 
#14 ·
What kind of bass management do you need? If it can be handled by the Oppo BDP-83 then you are going to have a straight pass-thru from the analog inputs, but if you need additional bass management the the quality of the ADA conversion on the analog inputs is important.
 
#15 ·
Dane, the last Marantz receiver I had listed at $1,100, and did not sound as good as the Denon or Onkyo. I attribute that to it's dated lack of bass management and no digital capabilities. The Denon was $350, and the Onkyo about the same as refurbs from ecost. The Marantz SR6003 I have listed at $900 I think, but got it from Accessories4less refurbed for less than $700.

Don't judge by price being at least 10 years older of a Marantz. Technology usually gets less expensive for similar performance of only a few years ago.
Thanks for that reply, Eddy...

I'm looking at the SR5004 at the same site right now.. attractive price, includes the current codecs, but also includes discrete ins AND outs for future stuff...

Spoke to wife a few moments ago, who could tell pretty quickly that I sounded bumed.. she was not totally against a little 'splurge' out of savings.. after all, the entire rest of the HT re-do came in UNDER budget... just not by THAT much... :)

Will have to go do some checking of the finances tonight... :)

..dane
 
#16 ·
What kind of bass management do you need? If it can be handled by the Oppo BDP-83 then you are going to have a straight pass-thru from the analog inputs, but if you need additional bass management the the quality of the ADA conversion on the analog inputs is important.
I have twin UFW-10's. "Bass Management" ... hahaha.. ANY bass management is better than what my current receiver has ... :)

That said, I don't even know about about today's "bass management" to offer an answer. The only bass management I've ever used is a simple crossover at a fixed 100Hz!

:)

..dane
 
#17 ·
The reason I ask is, for example, the Outlaw 970 av/preamp is very good in analog bypass mode (although it does have annoying quirks) so if you went with an external amplifier (which is a big upgrade from a mid-priced receiver IMHO) then you could pick up the Outlaw 970 for cheap. However, if you need to use the bass management then an Outlaw 990 would be a better choice because its ADA conversion is better. I am nitpicking because lots of guys just love the 970 and think I am :crazy:
If you really wanted to go purist you go something like this since you don't need the video processing:
http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545

The cheapest method is to go receiver with analog ins and then upgrade to external amp later (as mentioned), but I wouldn't do it. If you are upgrading to BlueRay for the sound, that just doesn't seem the way to go. Again, just my opinion. A lot of guys are going to stereo preamps with HT bypass because getting great two channel sound out of an AVR is an expensive proposition.

edit:
Here is a nice analog option. I ran across the MVC when I was researching analog pre-amps and almost bought it.
Code:
MVC - 8 channel analog preamp - $399
Emotiva - UPA-5 125W X 5      - $549
--------------------------------------
                                $949
If you look at what it would cost you to get a receiver with a true 125W X 5 RMS, the pair compares very favorable.
http://www.sound4sale.com/products/MVC.php
http://emotiva.com/upa5.shtm

Paired with the Oppo BDP-83 which can handle the bass management and speaker delay you would have a very nice system.
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/


I have twin UFW-10's. "Bass Management" ... hahaha.. ANY bass management is better than what my current receiver has ... :)

That said, I don't even know about about today's "bass management" to offer an answer. The only bass management I've ever used is a simple crossover at a fixed 100Hz!

:)

..dane
 
#18 ·
The reason I ask is, for example, the Outlaw 970 av/preamp is very good in analog bypass mode (although it does have annoying quirks) so if you went with an external amplifier (which is a big upgrade from a mid-priced receiver IMHO) then you could pick up the Outlaw 970 for cheap. However, if you need to use the bass management then an Outlaw 990 would be a better choice because its ADA conversion is better. I am nitpicking because lots of guys just love the 970 and think I am :crazy:
If you really wanted to go purist you go something like this since you don't need the video processing:
http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545

The cheapest method is to go receiver with analog ins and then upgrade to external amp later (as mentioned), but I wouldn't do it. If you are upgrading to BlueRay for the sound, that just doesn't seem the way to go. Again, just my opinion. A lot of guys are going to stereo preamps with HT bypass because getting great two channel sound out of an AVR is an expensive proposition.

edit:
Here is a nice analog option. I ran across the MVC when I was researching analog pre-amps and almost bought it.
Code:
MVC - 8 channel analog preamp - $399
Emotiva - UPA-5 125W X 5      - $549
--------------------------------------
                                $949
If you look at what it would cost you to get a receiver with a true 125W X 5 RMS, the pair compares very favorable.
http://www.sound4sale.com/products/MVC.php
http://emotiva.com/upa5.shtm

Paired with the Oppo BDP-83 which can handle the bass management and speaker delay you would have a very nice system.
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/
After some thought I think I'd like to try and stay around a humble $500 for now.. That probably means a decent AVR with pre-outs for a future external amp upgrade...

Now here's my next question-- if I understand it right, I would ideally like an AVR that has HDMI pass-through in OFF/Standby mode. That way, when the AVR is off, the TV will negotiate a stereo downmix stream from the bluray player, and when the AVR is on then the AVR will negotiate a full multichannel stream from the player.

Is that correct theory, and if so, what kind of AVRs support that?

thanks!
..dane
 
#19 ·
After some thought I think I'd like to try and stay around a humble $500 for now.. That probably means a decent AVR with pre-outs for a future external amp upgrade...

Now here's my next question-- if I understand it right, I would ideally like an AVR that has HDMI pass-through in OFF/Standby mode. That way, when the AVR is off, the TV will negotiate a stereo downmix stream from the bluray player, and when the AVR is on then the AVR will negotiate a full multichannel stream from the player.

Is that correct theory, and if so, what kind of AVRs support that?

thanks!
..dane
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but what is the purpose of that? When I'm playing a dvd, the receiver is always on.
 
#20 ·
I just picked up a 6003 from a4less about two weeks ago. I had an Onk 606 and then a 876. The Marantz blows them away in terms of sound quality. The onks seemed more sterile if that means anything whereas the 6003 is much more neutral and subtle things are now heard better. If you can pick one up you won't be disappointed.
 
#21 ·
Ideally the bluray player will decode the DD, DTS, whatever and spit out an unencoded bitstream signal to the AVR. So the AVR needs to decode nothing for bluray, but maybe for an older dvd player or cable but probably not.

I would look for an AVR that has a very good DAC, pre outs and a servicable amp. You don't need fancy video processing, zone B or a coffee maker, though they often throw all that stuff in.
http://www.accessories4less.com/ is a good place to look if you want to do this on the cheap.
 
#22 ·
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but what is the purpose of that? When I'm playing a dvd, the receiver is always on.
hahaha.. we have a pretty fancy setup in our house. :) everything auto-switches (just turn on the player or one of the many game systems, and video just automagically appears on the screen). And everything also can be run through simply the TV speakers. Karen and I don't want to have to fiddle with a bunch of gadgets just to put on My Little Pony on DVD. That means the audio from the player goes to both the TV and the receiver. When we watch a movie with the receiver, we just mute the TV.

However, it seems none of the Marantz support HDMI passthrough in off/standby mode. :( I'd like to stick with a Marantz of some sort, but that lacking feature is a wee bit frustrating.

I just picked up a 6003 from a4less about two weeks ago. I had an Onk 606 and then a 876. The Marantz blows them away in terms of sound quality. The onks seemed more sterile if that means anything whereas the 6003 is much more neutral and subtle things are now heard better. If you can pick one up you won't be disappointed.
I only have 85wpc on my old marantz sr780, so sticking with a similarly powered model (500x) is AOK in my book for now. Did you read up on the x004 models "pop of death" over at AVS? I just read about it last night, so I'll probably be looking at a 5003 from a4less if I can swing it AND a bdp-80..

..dane
 
#23 ·
I only have 85wpc on my old marantz sr780, so sticking with a similarly powered model (500x) is AOK in my book for now. Did you read up on the x004 models "pop of death" over at AVS? I just read about it last night, so I'll probably be looking at a 5003 from a4less if I can swing it AND a bdp-80..

..dane
To be honest, no not really the feature set wasn't a huge upgrade of the 003's and I wasn't about to pay for a negligible difference. Did I mention how pretty they are too. :) Needless to say the 6003 has made me a fanboy..
 
#24 ·
I just picked up a 6003 from a4less about two weeks ago. I had an Onk 606 and then a 876. The Marantz blows them away in terms of sound quality. The onks seemed more sterile if that means anything whereas the 6003 is much more neutral and subtle things are now heard better. If you can pick one up you won't be disappointed.
I totally agree with your statements.
 
#26 ·
we have a 5disc cd changer that karen loves... otherwise that would be an interesting idea indeed! I was unaware the bdp-80 included an internal volume control... nice!

I'm really lost now. Too many options, and none of them are "just right." uggg...

..dane
 
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