Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread - Page 13 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #121 of 944 Old 03-08-12, 07:43 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Hello,
The 972, when Bench Tested, output over 100 Watts (>200 in 4 ohms) into 2 Channels and 68 Watts into 5/7 Channels due to a Current Limiter. Some Bench Tests do not make sense like the $3500 Denon AVR-4810 outputting 30 Watts into 7 Channels.

While the 972 does not have the most impressive Power Supply I have ever encountered (Denon AVR-5805 by a landslide), it is quite robust and the AVR weighs a touch over 40lbs. Considering the price and it having Preamp Outputs, all I can say is Trinnov was so intriguing that I was compelled to procure one.
With AC4L having a 30 Day Return Period, I do think it is worth the gamble of possible Return Shipping.
Cheers,
J

HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Hsu Research VTF-15h MK2, Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93
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Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910
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post #122 of 944 Old 03-09-12, 03:14 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

I hope someone else steps up with trinnov, It was very appealing but I'm said to say I'm returning my 972.

Ascend Sierra Towers RAAL | Ascend Sierra Horizon RAAL | Ascend HTM-200SE | Rythmik F15HP | Anthem MRX-520 | Sony PS3 | NEC PX-50XR5A | Meridian Explorer | OpenELEC Chromebox | Roku 3 | Samsung BDP-2550 | CalMAN HomeTheater | CalMAN C3 | HCFR | i1Display2 | MobileForge | REW | Cross Spectrum calibrated UMIK-1
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post #123 of 944 Old 03-09-12, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

What is the reason your returning it if I may ask?

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #124 of 944 Old 03-09-12, 03:52 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Hello,
From what I have read from several sources, it seems highly unlikely that another AVR is going to feature Trinnov. This is primarily due to the costs involved in implementation, Microphone, Memory and DSP being pushed to the max, cost of licencing, etc.. One of the Sources is almost definitely an upper level Representative from an AV Manufacturer who has always been bang on in terms of information going on a decade.

There is a reason that the only other Trinnov equipped Processor costs $13,000 and Trinnov has been out for years. I mention this as Audyssey was first only offered on high priced Processors and has since trickled down to a myriad of devices including some at very low price points.

That being said, I truly hope I am wrong about this. However, I needed another AVR/SSP like I needed a hole in my head and ended up with an R972 due to my personal belief that this will be the last Trinnov equipped device that does not cost a small fortune. And given that the 972 can now be had for $1200 off, it was just too good of a deal for me to pass up.

Without question, Trinnov has produced the best overall Room Correction I have ever experienced. I will say that the LFE sounds better with Audyssey XT32 added with SubEQ HT. However, XT32/SubEQ HT AVR's are $2000 minimum. And in truth even with it being on the market for several years, the 972 was an $1800 AVR, but at $600 the 972 still offers all the essentials for great HT experience.
Cheers,
JJ

HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Hsu Research VTF-15h MK2, Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS4, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910
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post #125 of 944 Old 03-09-12, 04:02 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

I think Kal Rubinson puts it best "the R-972 suffers from some niggling operational foibles to which I found myself unable to adapt" I know I was taking a step back with this unit lacking many of the newer features which I was willing to accept. I'm really looking for minimalist functionality and superior sound/video quality.

Its quite possible that my unit is defective, but I continued to have issues with HDMI in my configuration causing video drop out after swapping out equipment and cables. I thought I had it licked but it returned. I have zero problems with the 3008. That is really the main issue as it's not compatible with my setup.

The video section had to be used in bypass, I feel it still comes up a little short, I have the 3008 in thx pass-thru mode and the video is slightly superior IMHO. I also couldn't deal with the audio delay. I'd rather live with the clicking as I'm quite the channel surfer. I set the display to dim and when you shut it of and power back on, it doesn't recall the previous dimmed setting. The remote is really embarrassing in its functionality, shouldn't really matter since I have logitech, I just can't believe they would put something out like that.

However, the trinnov really impressed me by granting me with a huge sweet spot. Even with the spatial options disabled I was able to get excellent imaging and great sound quality. The remapping is equally impressive and the speakers all sound on the same plane and vanished. It sounded most similar to THX mode where the listener is focused to the center of the sound image. I noticed the bass suffered when I enabled some of the remappings. I started working on correcting that as some of the dynamics have been flattened by the room eq modes. I even considered replacing my display I just couldn't justify it.

Overall there were just too many cons vs pro of having the trinnov to keep the unit. I'm just disappointed in the implementation. I really like being able to have a little more control over things. Even though the levels and delays distances were all spot on. It truly is quite impressive. I'm sure others will enjoy it as I only need one processor.

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post #126 of 944 Old 03-09-12, 04:56 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Please note that Kal's Review was published in May of 2010. That means he well might have written the Review months before even May 2010 due to needing to get the Magazine to be Published. In the ensuing 2 years, there were countless Firmware Updates that went a great deal towards addressing many of the initial issues. Regardless, if you are not happy with it, I can only hope your next AVR brings you a more positive experience.

HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Hsu Research VTF-15h MK2, Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS4, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910
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post #127 of 944 Old 03-09-12, 05:16 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Please note, I didn't purchase it based on an article or this forum. Your right, but the latest firmware 1.47 is dated 8/12/2010 so KR probably did write it just prior to that. But countless firmware updates? I doubt there were many from May 2010 to August 2010? I'm unhappy to find any info on updates from 2010 to 2012. My take on the 972 resurgence is the price. I don't know what all the hubbub is about with firmware updates or bug list fixes. Where is the documentation on them? I kind of feel I've been duped. I convinced myself into buying one since I've been following and wanting trinnov for so long. I was hoping it would be more polished of a unit, thats why I referenced his comment. I figured A4L might have a later revision on firmware from sherwood. It displayed as 1.47i, still has the same date 8/12/2010 as well as the other same revision sub micom so I really don't think that there is any difference. I don't mean to sound bitter or negative about this cause I'm not. Something seems fishy here though regarding the firmware. I was reluctant to report my sending it back, and I knew someone would ask why, but I'm real happy with the 3008. I've had that for over a year, so I'll keep that and hold out for something better. My intention was to only keep one unit, the 3008 just is more reliable and has better video performance for me so I based my decision on that. I just hope there is another unit with trinnov coming out soon. It has a lot of potential and should be in a avr-processor in the $500-$1500 price point. I feel it can definitely compete with the other room eq's out there and without a doubt I'd purchase one.

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Last edited by eyecatcher127; 03-09-12 at 05:48 PM.
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post #128 of 944 Old 03-09-12, 06:39 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Quote:
eyecatcher127 wrote: View Post
Please note, I didn't purchase it based on an article or this forum. Your right, but the latest firmware 1.47 is dated 8/12/2010 so KR probably did write it just prior to that. But countless firmware updates? I doubt there were many from May 2010 to August 2010? I'm unhappy to find any info on updates from 2010 to 2012. My take on the 972 resurgence is the price. I don't know what all the hubbub is about with firmware updates or bug list fixes. Where is the documentation on them? I kind of feel I've been duped. I convinced myself into buying one since I've been following and wanting trinnov for so long. I was hoping it would be more polished of a unit, thats why I referenced his comment. I figured A4L might have a later revision on firmware from sherwood. It displayed as 1.47i, still has the same date 8/12/2010 as well as the other same revision sub micom so I really don't think that there is any difference. I don't mean to sound bitter or negative about this cause I'm not. Something seems fishy here though regarding the firmware. I was reluctant to report my sending it back, and I knew someone would ask why, but I'm real happy with the 3008. I've had that for over a year, so I'll keep that and hold out for something better. My intention was to only keep one unit, the 3008 just is more reliable and has better video performance for me so I based my decision on that. I just hope there is another unit with trinnov coming out soon. It has a lot of potential and should be in a avr-processor in the $500-$1500 price point. I feel it can definitely compete with the other room eq's out there and without a doubt I'd purchase one.

I too own a 3008 as well. Given you purchased the 972 not based on information here or an Article, where did you find information which made you decide to purchase one. I regret you feel duped, but with a 30 Day Return Policy, it is not like you have lost the principal. As I said in my last Post, I regret it did not work out for you. For many of us, the good outweighs the bad. Sorry you did not see it this way I suppose.

HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Hsu Research VTF-15h MK2, Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS4, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910
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post #129 of 944 Old 03-09-12, 06:43 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Also, the 3008 and 972 use the identical HQV Reon Video Processor.

HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Hsu Research VTF-15h MK2, Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS4, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910
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post #130 of 944 Old 03-11-12, 01:18 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

The purchase was culminated from all the info gathered from many sources. I've known about trinnov for over 2 years. I've read all the articles on the 972 when they were first published. I tend to do a lot of research. The recent information alludes that the latest firmware was made available resolving issues. I haven't be able to find any sources regarding the details of the firmware updates. No one as provided that info. My point is the latest firmware still seems to be from 2010 and the unit is still not as polished as an $1800 AVR should be. Even at $599 It I wasn't impressed overall to keep it. I simply feel that if they could resolve a few minor issues in another update, this could be an amazing avr. However I"m doubtful any other updates will be made available.

I do agree that the unit has probably the best room eq I've experienced. I've setup and used all the versions of audyssey, mccac and ypao. The xt32 does still see to to the best job in the sub range. It is nice to see that trinnov does observer and equalize the sub output and it did a respectful job.

The unit also does apear to use a similar version of Reon however, the implementation is not the same as it did not perform nor look as good. It could be the specific revision of the chipset or again firmware. If it was truly identical and I did not have video issues, I would have kept the unit.

I'm not bashing this unit. It does have tremendous value and I hope it works out for everyone else. You asked why so, I'm just providing my perspective. Thats all. This unit is all about trinnov and I'm just disappointed that the reon in my 3008 works perfect and the 972 does not. Again it could be defective or could use some more refinement. Thats the bottom line and why the unit was returned. There is really nothing to debate about.

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