Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread - Page 41 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #401 of 944 Old 07-11-12, 07:11 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Jungle Jack's Avatar
Jack
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Siesta Key, Florida
Posts: 8,112
Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Quote:
sub_crazy wrote: View Post
XT32 includes the SubEQ and it's results are ruler flat in my system, Trinnov does a good job but there are still some peaks that could use some tweaking.

I do feel it might be more of a hardware preference as well since the 972 has a more forward sound without any EQ than the 5508 or 3008 without EQ as well. That is why I would love a 5508 with Trinnov as it would be the best of both worlds, at least in my music system, the theater system might benefit from the more forward 972.

I really like both the 972 and 5508, the former for movies and the latter for music but they both do everything very well. It is the Spatial Mapping with Trinnov that really brings something special to the table for movies tough, for movies it is the clear winner.

Until the much lower MSRP (compared to other XT32 AVR's) Onkyo TX-NR818, all have offered SubEQ HT along with XT32. When the 818 was released, it almost did seem too good to be true. However, as all prior XT32 AVR's had SubEQ HT, I did think it too would offer it. While the 818 however does not offer SubEQ, but you do benefit from the far greater Filtering Power on the Subwoofer Channel. If using dual subwoofers, it does not have you bring both down to 75db's before starting Audyssey Calibration the way SubEQ HT XT32 AVR's does.

HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Hsu Research VTF-15h MK2, Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS4, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910
Jungle Jack is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #402 of 944 Old 07-12-12, 12:09 PM
Elite Shackster
Mike
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Dimas, CA
Posts: 1,633
My System
Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Good point Jack, I didn't know XT32 was available as a separate option without SubEQ.
sub_crazy is offline  
post #403 of 944 Old 07-13-12, 08:14 AM
Elite Shackster
 
Jungle Jack's Avatar
Jack
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Siesta Key, Florida
Posts: 8,112
Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

To be honest, I always thought it was a package deal. However, when the 818 was announced and the ensuing fervor about it, it was disclosed that it did indeed not offer SubEQ HT. Given that all prior XT32 AVR's MSRP was $2000 minimum, I can totally understand why SubEQ was omitted. Both was a cost saving move and to justify spending more on the TX-NR3010 and 5010. I am pretty sure the TX-NR1010 will have the same implementation as the 818. Regardless, if only using a single Subwoofer, the loss of SubEQ HT is not an issue.

HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Hsu Research VTF-15h MK2, Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS4, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910
Jungle Jack is offline  
 
post #404 of 944 Old 07-14-12, 08:02 PM
Shackster
RTPBob
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Question Have a techie question

OK, need somebody who understands electronics better than I do. I am using a Rotel RMB-1077 amplifier connected to the R-972's preamp outs.

The spec on the R-972 is: Output level PREOUT (Front, Center, Surround, Surround back, Subwoofer), 1 kΩ - 1.0 V

The spec on the RMB-1077 is: Input Sensitivity/Impedance 1.2 V / 8.3 k ohms

Are there any issues I might encounter with this two units connected? Such as the output of the R-972 will not drive the 1077 to full power?

If there is a potential issue, is there anything I can do about it?

Thanks,
Bob
RTPBob is offline  
post #405 of 944 Old 07-14-12, 11:20 PM
Inactive
Ty
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Panama City Fl
Posts: 1,660
Re: Have a techie question

Quote:
RTPBob wrote: View Post
Are there any issues I might encounter with this two units connected? Such as the output of the R-972 will not drive the 1077 to full power?

If there is a potential issue, is there anything I can do about it?

Thanks,
Bob
I wont say that it wont drive the 1077 to its full power potential but I will say that it will likely drive your amps in a different way, it certainly did for me. With the Sherwood I immediately noticed that I get much closer to that magic "reference volume" of "0" than I ever did when I was using the Marantz SR8002 as a preamp. With the Marantz a normal movie volume was about -15, with the Sherwood it's closer to 0, thats a big difference.

The only thing you can do about it is skip the Trinnov calibration, it sets speakers trim levels very low. Im sure you can squeeze much more output if your speaker trim levels are calibrated manually to almost max. Considering how a Trinnov calibration will transform your speakers system Im not sure I would consider that a solution tho.
TypeA is offline  
post #406 of 944 Old 07-18-12, 09:54 PM
Elite Shackster
Mike
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Dimas, CA
Posts: 1,633
My System
Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

So today I put the Onkyo 5508 into service in my living room system again and moved the R-972 back upstairs in the theater room. I re-ran Audyssey XT32 again with 6 positions on my mic stand.

I used the CD "Angus & Julia Stone: Down the Way" for all my music listening as it has a lot of different nuances that make it easy to pick out differences. I thought the R-972 sounded great but I felt like I was losing some detail and instrument separation that the 5508 had. It is hard to remember all just by audio memory but on the last track "The Devil's Tears" there is a snare drum and it was MUCH more detailed than I remembered via the 972 that I ran upstairs to play that same track. That is were I found the biggest difference, the snare drum was more in the background on the 972 and with the 5508 you could hear the different snares hitting the drum top with the 972 they were more meshed together and not as distinctive. With the 5508 and XT32 you can definitely hear all the nuances of the different instruments but with the 972 they are more mushed together I would say. It is hard to describe but I would say the 5508 has a sharper attack were as the 972 is more of a rounded sound. It is sort of like that acoustic guitar solo were you can hear all the different sounds like the strings being plucked, the finger movement on the chords and all the detail that you get with the 5508 but is lacking with the 972.

I also decided to take a picture of both SMS-1 screens to show the difference they both make on the subwoofers. The first pic which looks crazy flat is the XT32 with SubEQ and the second is Trinnov. I actually took off the EQ cuts I had on the Trinnov EQ'ed subs so you could see the difference, the XT32 didn't need any extra help from the SMS-1 besides the boost at 16hz for my DIY sealed subs. I did listen to the Trinnov EQ as is without any assistance from the SMS-1 and even though it wasn't flat it still sounded pretty good.

I have to add that I also owned the Denon 4311 for about a month and even though it had XT32 with SubEQ it still needed a lot of tweaking with the SMS-1. A friend of mine also has a Denon 4311 and he has to make 2 huge 13db cuts with his SMS-1. I really never have to make adjustments with my SMS-1 and Onkyo's implementation of XT32 and SubEQ after probably 15 calibrations for my sub building ventures. I find that odd that I could get 2 different results with XT32 on the sub channels but I confirmed it with a completely different Denon 4311 so it must be the way both company's implement XT32 into there systems.

Now back to the 5508 vs 972:

Even with the SMS-1 in the system to correct the subs even further for the 972 I still preferred the musical bass with the 5508. The bass was also easy to distinguish using the test CD I referenced above as it is very well recorded. There was just a better foundation for the music with the 5508 but it was inline with everything else so it was not overpowering.
The R-972 definitely does a better job at blending the sound of the speakers together via spatial re-mapping. I was very aware of were my surround speakers were with the 5508 compared to the disappearing act they did with the 972.

This is a tough choice as I don't listen to music as much as I used to and the R-972 does such a great job with TV which is watched downstairs that it is hard to give up. Overall I prefer the 5508 for music as it is just so much more detailed that you hear things that the 972 misses. The 972 is no slouch when it comes to music though and if your mostly a movie person than it's a no brainer, Trinnov is the way to go over XT32. I guess if you had the perfect room and could place all your speakers in there ideal spot than Trinnov would not make a big difference and XT32 would be better.

I was actually thinking of getting rid of the 5508 in favor of a second R-972 for the downstairs but now I am not sure I thought it would be an easy decision and I would place my order for the second 972 tonight but I am now going to give it a week and see.

Still says a lot that a $600 receiver can make one ponder the thought of replacing a pre-pro that has a street value of 2 1/2 to 3 times the price.
sub_crazy is offline  
post #407 of 944 Old 07-18-12, 10:00 PM
Elite Shackster
Mike
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Dimas, CA
Posts: 1,633
My System
Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Quote:
TypeA wrote: View Post
Well I made changes that I think sound better with the av123 speakers Im running, lossless and surround sound processing only and Ive not done much in the way of pure music listening.

Went from "music" to "cinema", that 20 degree spread sounds better than the 30 degree setting. Also changed from "natural" to "audiophile1", blends the speakers together even better. These two changes also, if you can believe this, make the dialog less forward. Never thought I would be dialing back the movie dialog, not with todays hot-mastered movie soundtracks and all

[gush] Truly remarkable the harmony and cohesion this AVR can bring to a speaker package, its like Ive got a whole new theater experience, and thats not just lossless performance but dolby surround sound formats also. The more I listen the more impressed I am. [/gush]
I also made the switch to Audiophile1 instead of Natural for music. I like the slight boost below 200hz that Natural provides but for music Audiophile1 has a edge in overall clarity in both my systems. I still use Natural for movies though, how about you?
sub_crazy is offline  
post #408 of 944 Old 07-19-12, 12:28 PM
Inactive
Ty
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Panama City Fl
Posts: 1,660
Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

For me natural just seems too forward for either music or movies. So I see myself leaving it in audiophile1 for all processing and even with two channel CD playback. I will say that audiophile1, combined with a multi channel matrix, is a very pleasurable experience for CD playback. Near as I can describe the experience; the resulting effect places the speakers squarely in your lap.
TypeA is offline  
post #409 of 944 Old 07-20-12, 06:06 PM
Elite Shackster
Mike
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Dimas, CA
Posts: 1,633
My System
Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Natural can be a bit forward but for movies it is a trade off as I enjoy the subtle boost below 200hz. At least with Natural you never get the question "What did they say?"
sub_crazy is offline  
post #410 of 944 Old 07-21-12, 03:40 PM
Inactive
Ty
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Panama City Fl
Posts: 1,660
Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Here's a great example of how that 3D remapping can be a priceless feature. My 1 foot high, 50 pound center speaker just went from a 1-foot-high stand (already pretty low) to a 2" shelf on this stand. Used four of these as feet for the bottom of the speaker. Theyre clear rubber, tall, and heavy duty so they should give me nice vibration isolation and shelf/speaker protection. Theyre almost invisible when installed inboard enough. Skipping the center shelf worked great, and looks really nice, but puts my center almost on the floor. No worries, Trinnov 3D remapping to the rescue!!!


Before and after shots






TypeA is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
impressions , r972 , sherwood or newcastle

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome