Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread - Page 83 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #821 of 944 Old 12-30-13, 05:27 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Following up my own post: it took me a few hours to get the sub trim right and one of my surrounds picked up, but I was able to get the R-972 calibrated relatively easily, with a center channel at 1 degree and my level trims all within 1 db of one another (and matching distance and delay settings for my L/C/R mains, and equal levels for my surrounds). I have a fair amount of work to do with the MiniDSP I'm using to keep my multiple subs set up as a single summed response, but so far I'm impressed.

I'm going to write more about this on AVS, where I'm more active. Given how well that Trinnov has revealed details and perceived separation in musical instruments, and created a more wraparound mix for movies with 3D remapping engaged (and IMO less artificially than Audyssey's DEQ), I'm surprised that even with the quirks, the R-972 hasn't been picked up by more advanced A/V users as a kind of single purpose processor. For the $499/599 AC4L charged + a capable BluRay player that can output LPCM, at the very least it's a cost-efficient solution vs. a $12K+ Trinnov or ADA unit. And even the quirks I notice with audio codec delay aren't horrible, as long as you have video bypass engaged. Extra credit for a separate amp, particularly if you can trim individual channels = which is what I did with my Denon 4311 being the amp from the R-972's pre-outs.

Speaking of which, AC4L lists them as sold out now.
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post #822 of 944 Old 12-30-13, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Quote:
sdrucker wrote: View Post

Speaking of which, AC4L lists them as sold out now.
Then that's it for stock. They took all the remaining units Sherwood had. Any units floating around on other sites I would be very cautious of buying. As there have been some posts that they are faulty units.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #823 of 944 Old 12-30-13, 05:50 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Quote:
tonyvdb wrote: View Post
Then that's it for stock. They took all the remaining units Sherwood had. Any units floating around on other sites I would be very cautious of buying. As there have been some posts that they are faulty units.

The assumption is that AC4L wasn't pulling our leg about that "gone forever" part as part of the holiday season buying frenzy. However, they strike me as honorable (which they'd have to be, given how many returns they must have gotten over the last two years), so they're probably telling the truth.

The refurbished ones for sure I'd be very, very cautious of, given how much bad press they've gotten here and AVS. In fact, even with the three year warranty from Sherwood, I was paranoid enough that the unit I bought might break down outside of that time window, and picked up a second one over the weekend just in case as the stock went into single figures. Another $500 was a small investment for something that I hope lasts us for a long time to come. Good thing we have the storage space in our condo's storage locker. And yes, I think Trinnov is worth it that much.

I wonder if Sherwood will still repair the units after the three year warranties from 2012 (or earlier?) start expiring. Anybody have any experience or thoughts about that?
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post #824 of 944 Old 01-10-14, 02:46 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Odd question for anybody that's done pre/post Trinnov measurements with the R-972:

As you know, Trinnov calculates a crossover for each speaker based on the mean of the -6 db point of that speaker on the low end, and the -6 db of the subwoofer(s) on the high end.

When measuring pre/post, are you going back and setting the Trinnov manually (without Trinnov engaged) to the crossover calculated by the Trinnov algorithm for that position, within the nearest 10 Hz? That would seem reasonable.

It's an issue because on another forum many of us know (the three letter one beginning with "A"), there have been some users that have turned off Trinnov and changed the crossovers - i.e. moving an 80 Hz crossover manually to "full range". As a result, they claim this reset would stick for the Trinnov calibration, effectively overriding the Trinnov results. The same for other settings that are changed, like distance, and even SW mode (moving "LFE" to "LFE+Mains"), literally speaking.

That's a concern for me because if I do pre/post Trinnov measurement, that would mean that trying to match the crossovers "manually" (no Trinnov) to what Trinnov does for comparative purposes would override the calibration's effects.

Also, does the R-972 use the calculated crossover point or a rounded variation internally? That IIRC is the sensitivity of crossover values in the R-972 as such.

Reason I'm asking is that same forum, there's a former R-972 user that raised the point that the R-972 is more prone to crossover mismatch between mains and sub due to this rounding error. He cited the Rich article from BAS as a source.

This is esoteric, as in doing any "matching" of pre/post crossovers for a given speaker for REW testing purposes, I'd pick the crossover that matches the Trinnov result for the calibration in question to the nearest 10 Hz, rounding upward, as in general raising crossovers above a calculated one is less harmful than lowering them. At least in the Audyssey world, that is.

Hope this makes some sense. Thanks!
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post #825 of 944 Old 01-15-14, 12:32 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Hi, I sure hope it's ok to jump in here with a couple of quick questions...as I just can not, for time & physical reasons, go through all this info right now...Will the 972 recognize and figure out I have only one centered surround BACK speaker on its own and combine "Back" signals there? (for a 6.1 set-up) or is there a way I need to tell it that? It is not set-up yet in here, and I need to make some decisions to decide "if" is why I am compelled to ask now...Thanks very much if anyone can clarify...
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post #826 of 944 Old 01-16-14, 03:07 AM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Quote:
rob755 wrote: View Post
Hi, I sure hope it's ok to jump in here with a couple of quick questions...as I just can not, for time & physical reasons, go through all this info right now...Will the 972 recognize and figure out I have only one centered surround BACK speaker on its own and combine "Back" signals there? (for a 6.1 set-up) or is there a way I need to tell it that? It is not set-up yet in here, and I need to make some decisions to decide "if" is why I am compelled to ask now...Thanks very much if anyone can clarify...
Yes, the 972 will recognize a single back and configure it properly. You can put a speaker anywhere and Trinnov will find an appropriate use for it, that's the beauty of the system.
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post #827 of 944 Old 02-16-14, 11:27 AM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Thanks for the reply! I bought one and then turned around and bought another before the first even arrived, for the other system just in case it was a keeper for me...it was the next to last one they had, and the last sold the same day. I'm glad I did...very very nice!
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post #828 of 944 Old 03-03-14, 08:07 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Hello,

Just wondering if there's someone who has the same issue as mine.

My speaker setup is 5.0 (No subwoofer).
It happened yesterday that I demoed 5.1 dolby test sample file downloaded from somewhere.
The clip has separate test sounds for each channels including LFE channel.
I noticed that my R972 didn't play LFE channel when I use it with Trinnov (literally no LFE sounds at all).
But It is ok without Trinnov, I could hear fairly deep lows from my Klipsch RF82 fronts.

My system setup for subwoofer is "None"
Am I missing something in my system setup?

Thanks.

H
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post #829 of 944 Old 03-03-14, 09:15 PM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

Quote:
redpark91 wrote: View Post
Am I missing something in my system setup?
Stating the obvious, the LFE channel is intended to be used with a subwoofer.

With that in mind, my understanding, in the main menu (subwoofer) turn your LFE channel off and set all your speakers to large. The AVR should play, to the best of your mains ability, all the bass the speakers are capable of reproducing.

Remember, the LFE channel is spec'd to <20Hz and most speakers are way above that limit. Anything the mains can't reproduce, is lost.

Specs for the RF-82; Frequency Response: 33Hz-24KHz ± 3dB. Depending on the acoustics in the room and how they interact at the MLP (nulls, dips, cancellation), the resulting interaction, from 33Hz to 120Hz, could be a whole lot worse.

What speakers are you currently using?

Last edited by BeeMan458; 03-03-14 at 09:31 PM.
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post #830 of 944 Old 03-04-14, 12:48 AM
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Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread

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BeeMan458 wrote: View Post
Stating the obvious, the LFE channel is intended to be used with a subwoofer.

With that in mind, my understanding, in the main menu (subwoofer) turn your LFE channel off and set all your speakers to large. The AVR should play, to the best of your mains ability, all the bass the speakers are capable of reproducing.

Remember, the LFE channel is spec'd to <20Hz and most speakers are way above that limit. Anything the mains can't reproduce, is lost.

Specs for the RF-82;Frequency Response: 33Hz-24KHz ± 3dB. Depending on the acoustics in the room and how they interact at the MLP (nulls, dips, cancellation), the resulting interaction, from 33Hz to 120Hz, could be a whole lot worse.

What speakers are you currently using?
Thanks for the quick respons

The test file plays LFE tone from 120 Hz to 20 Hz.
You can download the file here;
- www.tfm.ro/win32-projects/test-avi-ac3/

Even the LFE channel is supposed to be played using a subwoofer, my system could play the LFE sound through the 5.0 setup when testing with the file (Trinnov is turned off).

However, when I turn the Trinnov ON, the LFE channel dosesn't sound at all with this test file. Also, it is obvious that the LFE sound is not heard when playing movie title.

Here's my setup in detail;

* Speakers (No subwoofer)
- Front: Klipsch RF82 ; 33Hz-23kHz +/-3dB
- Center: Klipsch RC35 ; 56Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB
- Surrond: Klipsch RB35 ; 45Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB

* Setup (R972)
- System Setup > Subwoofer Mode @ "Normal"
- Speaker/Listening Setup > Speaker Config. > Subwoofer @ "No"
- Speaker/Listening Setup > X-over Frequency > Front/Center/Surround @ 'Full'
- Trinnov setting ; Natural / 3D Remap

Thanks.

H
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