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post #101 of 108 Old 04-30-13, 11:54 AM
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Re: AVR Suggestions

Sorry I should have been more clear about Phaze, Its not reversing polarity it will do slight adjustments to correct for how the sound reaches the listening position reducing cancellation of frequencies known as Nulls. If you tweak these "distance" settings from what Audyssey does you will cancel what it thinks is best and is usually correct.

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post #102 of 108 Old 04-30-13, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: AVR Suggestions

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Distance is measured in Feet or Meters
Delay is measured in Time: Seconds, Millisecond (ms, millionth), Nanosecond (ns, billionth).

I don't think an AVR can switch phase. I assume it's hardwared in to the AMP design. But, it is possible to audibly detect and measure a speaker running out of phase.
Reading more about it I'm seeing that you're correct, Audyssey does not adjust phase at all, so again, all it's doing is adjusting the distance/delay, which yes are measured in different terms, but from an AVR's perspective are the same thing.

Don't get me wrong, I think Audyssey is very cool, but if it's just a time saving tool for dialing in the settings that I'm used to setting manually, I don't see that as being worth more than $20 or so, and not worth all the hype it gets about the various upgraded versions that are available.


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post #103 of 108 Old 04-30-13, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: AVR Suggestions

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Sorry I should have been more clear about Phaze, Its not reversing polarity it will do slight adjustments to correct for how the sound reaches the listening position reducing cancellation of frequencies known as Nulls. If you tweak these "distance" settings from what Audyssey does you will cancel what it thinks is best and is usually correct.
I agree with you that the distance settings shouldn't be adjusted the actual linear feet from the listening position, the point isn't the actual physical distance of course, it's the amount of time that the sound takes to get to you. When I set the distance manually I start with a tape measure, but I fine tune it based on the response of each speaker. In the end though, it's still just a simple "distance" setting in the AVR that adjusts for delays, not magic Audyssey voodoo.


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post #104 of 108 Old 04-30-13, 12:28 PM
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Re: AVR Suggestions

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Reading more about it I'm seeing that you're correct, Audyssey does not adjust phase at all, so again, all it's doing is adjusting the distance/delay, which yes are measured in different terms, but from an AVR's perspective are the same thing.

Don't get me wrong, I think Audyssey is very cool, but if it's just a time saving tool for dialing in the settings that I'm used to setting manually, I don't see that as being worth more than $20 or so, and not worth all the hype it gets about the various upgraded versions that are available.
A speaker running out of phase will sound a little more bass heavy. I suspect Audyssey is also compensating for that in the EQ. Fix your wiring and run the setup again.

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post #105 of 108 Old 04-30-13, 12:39 PM
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Re: AVR Suggestions

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When I set the distance manually I start with a tape measure, but I fine tune it based on the response of each speaker. In the end though, it's still just a simple "distance" setting in the AVR that adjusts for delays, not magic Audyssey voodoo.
Thats the wrong approach, by doing it manually with a tape measure you are bypassing alot of what Audyssey does in the Time domain. it is far more than just what you see in the user menu but to each their own you can do what you like. But I can promise that Audyssey will do a better job than you can do by ear.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #106 of 108 Old 04-30-13, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: AVR Suggestions

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Thats the wrong approach, by doing it manually with a tape measure you are bypassing alot of what Audyssey does in the Time domain. it is far more than just what you see in the user menu but to each their own you can do what you like. But I can promise that Audyssey will do a better job than you can do by ear.
I think you're misunderstanding me, I understand that the "distance" settings are not referring to physical distance, and that Audessey in effect "does it by ear" by measuring delays. I only mentioned the tape measure because that's a good place to start when doing manual calibration, not that that's what I use for my settings.

I have not adjusted Audessey's distance settings at all because they sound great. However, your wording seems to indicate that if I were to adjust them by 0.1 feet that it would erase some other mystery settings that Audyssey has going on in the background, and I just don't see that being the case.


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post #107 of 108 Old 04-30-13, 02:19 PM
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Re: AVR Suggestions

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However, your wording seems to indicate that if I were to adjust them by 0.1 feet that it would erase some other mystery settings that Audyssey has going on in the background, and I just don't see that being the case.
It can, Audyssey takes multiple readings and should be done with the mic placed in different spots even if you only move it a foot to either side of your main listening position. You room is not perfect and reflections will make a huge difference. You cant possibly adjust by ear what Audyssey does internally. Your ears are not located in the same position so thats why there is much more going on under the hood than you think.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #108 of 108 Old 04-30-13, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: AVR Suggestions

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It can, Audyssey takes multiple readings and should be done with the mic placed in different spots even if you only move it a foot to either side of your main listening position. You room is not perfect and reflections will make a huge difference. You cant possibly adjust by ear what Audyssey does internally. Your ears are not located in the same position so thats why there is much more going on under the hood than you think.
I guess what I'm asking is if I adjust the distance manually, what (other than the delay) is it changing, and why in world would it? Moving the mic around just gives you more points to average out to make a larger sweet spot (which is great by the way, but still nothing more than averaging numbers and making adjustments to level and distance settings).

Their website is full of stuff that is great for marketing, but I haven't found anything there yet that actually explains what Audyssey does. I know that it adjusts level, distance and sub/satellite x-over frequencies, because the AVR told me that. Nothing I found on the website even went into as much detail to explain that it does that. It's full of great statements like "MultEQ corrects the subwoofer in every seat providing precise bass reproduction." Corrects it in what way?

The most perplexing is this one: "MultEQ filters are specifically designed to address these time domain problems and concentrate most of the signal energy in the direct sound (referring to reflections as indirect sound)" Unless I'm severely misunderstanding, it's claiming that it somehow not only has control over the signal energy in reflections, but it's reducing that energy in favor of concentrating more signal energy out of the speaker itself.. In my old-school way of thinking, all amps concentrate ALL signal energy into the "direct sound."

I realize that it's all marketing doubletalk anyway, but I haven't seen anyone actually explain what Audyssey does beyond saying it "corrects" everything.


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