Integra AV Receiver not upconverting

[mleuba]

Hi All,

I am a relative newbie. I have an Integra 7.8 with component video upscaling to 720p. I have my DVD connected via component video as I should. Output to TV is HDMI. However, my Pioneer Kuros shows the input resolution is 480, it is not upconverting.

Ideas for how can I get the system to upconvert to 720? When I watch HD TV, I do get 1080…

Thanks!

[Mike P.]

If you set the HDMI Monitor setting to "Yes" on your receiver, then composite video, S-Video, and component video sources are upconverted and output by the HDMI connection.

[brent_s]

The 7.8, which is essentially the Integra version of the Onkyo 805, does not do upscaling officially even though the Faroudja chip used is capable of 720p, at least to some extent. Notice here that "1080i Upscaling" is not a feature. The 7.8 will do format conversion, which you're seeing...composite/s-vid/component can be upscaled(480i) and/or converted to 480p for HDMI out. On the flip side, if you send 1080i in via component, it will be downscaled/converted to 720p via HDMI.

I said "officially" because assuming the 7.8 also implements the 805's secret menu, you can force the 7.8 to upscale to 720. However, it doesn't always properly preserve aspect ratio when engaged.

-Brent

[Mike P.]

From the manual:
HDMI upconversion of composite video, S-Video, and component video sources (720p capable)
I would take that to mean it will upscale to 720p.

[brent_s]

Mike P. wrote:

From the manual:
HDMI upconversion of composite video, S-Video, and component video sources (720p capable)
I would take that to mean it will upscale to 720p.

Sort of. The exact same wording is in the 805 manual. Based on commas and such, I believe the "(720p capable)" is referring only to the component format. As I said, the Faroudja chip used in the 7.8/805 is 720p capable. 720p component in will be converted to HDMI, no scaling. 1080i component will be downscaled to 720p and converted. However, without forcing 720p in the secret menu, composite/s-vid/component 480i/p will only be converted to HDMI 480p.

Also, from the Integra press release for the 7.8:
"For legacy analog A/V source equipment, the DTR-7.8 features automatic transcoding of all video inputs to both HDMI and component video to simplify connectivity and control of modern video displays. Additionally, the receiver also includes onboard Faroudja DCDi deinterlacing circuitry for high-quality conversion of all interlaced source material to 480p progressive scan output."

The OP's experience seems to confirm this.

[mleuba]

Mike and Brent, thanks for the good dialog. I called the dealer and discussed with him. He said that the upconversion would go from 480i to 480p, my experience reflects this. I guess I assumed it would go to 720p. My DVD player is a really cheap Sanyo.

Hey Brent, what secret menu? How do I engage it please? I'd like to give 'er a try...thanks all!

[Mike P.]

For the Onkyo 805, you hold down Aux1 then hit the power button. Try it on your Integra and let us know if it works.

[brent_s]

The "secret" menus are simply multiple front panel key sequences that will give you access to information or settings that Onkyo chose not to make generally available. I don't know if it's been confirmed that the Integra's have the same "OS" as the Onkyo's, but it looks like a safe assumption.

Not trying to be evasive by referring folks to another forum...I simply don't use them frequently and only have one sequence memorized. For the current known list, see post #1 in "The official Onkyo 705" thread at AVS. The 705/805 are identical enough that 90%+ of what's written there applies to the 805 and the thread starter has done a really good job of keeping the FAQ updated.

The sequence I do have memorized is for the internal temperature display...all of the key sequences only work on the front panel, not the remote.
1) press and hold "Display"
2) press "Standby"
3) releae both and quickly press "Tone".
You'll now see the temp of the two probes in the 805 (only 1 in 705) plus the fan speed (L/M/H/-). V appears to be some sort of output voltage in the preamp section...it'll track up/down with the volume knob and/or dynamic range of the signal content. Nobody's figured out what "Sec" is.

The secret video menu I mentioned earlier will allow you to force 720p upconversion. From memory, it also allows adjustment of some other picture settings. Problem is, they all revert to system defaults when you power cycle. If you're using a fixed panel display, it likely does a better job of resolution conversion than the 805. For quality receiver based upconversion, Onkyo has the 875/905/8.8 using the Reon processor.

-Brent

[tonyvdb]

Thanks Brent, I was always under the impression that the Faroudja DCDi deinterlacing in the 805 was fairly good obviously not as good as the Reon but still does a very good job. My LG SD DVD player has it and have always been very happy with the quality.

[brent_s]

tonyvdb wrote:

Thanks Brent, I was always under the impression that the Faroudja DCDi deinterlacing in the 805 was fairly good obviously not as good as the Reon but still does a very good job. My LG SD DVD player has it and have always been very happy with the quality.

Deinterlacing, upconversionm and upscaling are different things, at least the way I see the terms most commonly used.

For simply upconverting/deinterlacing 480i/p to 480p via HDMI, the Faroudja should do a fine job and reviews of the 705/805 indicate such. After deinterlacing and/or upconverting to HDMI, the display can then upscale to its native resolution.

Upscaling, as in the OP's desire to change resolution from 480p component input to 720p HDMI, requires a bit more sophistication. That's where the Reon, Realta and similar solutions shine. The Faroudja solution in the 705/805/7.8 can upscale to 720p, but is reportedly not as good as more current solutions on the market. The Secret's review of the 805 suggested this particular chipset was getting long in the tooth, but didn't say how old. I do know the Infocus X1 projector's original claim to fame, circa 2002, was Faroudja DCDi in a $1k unit, but the chip design could still be different. The most common complaint I've seen, at least on the Onkyo implementation, is it has trouble maintaining correct aspect ratio on 16:9 480 material...exactly the sort of thing you'd get from an older DVD player's component outputs.

Food for thought. With 1080 displays quickly becoming the norm, even if you can lock the Onkyo/Integra into 720p full time, the display will still have to do a 720->1080 upscale. One factor for me personally in choosing the 805 was because it doesn't scale. I prefer to either let the source or display do it.

-Brent

[tonyvdb]

I still use a Sanyo Z2 and is only capable of 720p so I dont really know if it would do a better job of upconversion as the Onkyo. I have an LD player hooked up via S-Video and I have not been impressed with the plaback quality of it through my Onkyo as it stands now so I was thinking this may be a better solution letting the Onkyo try it.

My apologies for steering this thread in a different direction as the OP.

[mleuba]

Well, the OP appreciates the lessons from all! Thanks for the good info.