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Da-Lite Silver Matte or HCCV

11K views 33 replies 5 participants last post by  mechman 
#1 ·
Howdy.

I have a Marantz VP4001 and I'm re-assessing my screen needs. I currently use quite a dark grey painted screen ( a bit darker than Silver Screen). It's around 106" and my room is light controlled at night, with light coloured walls which I may be painting dark soon.

I'd like, as would we all, better blacks with decent gain. I'm much more concerned with blacks than whites.

The Da-Lite review caught my eye, notably the HCCV and the Silver Matte.

Anyone care to hazard a guess which of these two might prove a good match?
 
#2 ·
Hi, Steve. Welcome to the Shack!

First, I'll answer your specific question. Unless you're in a super hurry, my STRONG recommendation would be to wait for mech (user mechman) to get back and answer this question. He's out of town now, but should be back any day now (Bill may know exactly when he'll be back). As you know, he's done extensive testing of the Da-Lite screens, and can give you the benefit of his first-hand experience. I know that he came away extremely impressed with the Silver Matte, but it'd be best for him to compare/contrast the two you're interested in. I'll also note that if you go to the Da-Lite site, and click on "Live Chat" (or something to that effect), you can request screen samples. If it's after hours, you can make the request via the chat window, the window will close (and you'll wonder what happened), and they'll get back with you via email the next day. The samples are only about 6x6, but you may at least want to see it first hand before pulling the trigger. And they are free...including postage.

Second, a few questions for you...
(1) What color is your current paint (brand and color)? Do you know if it's neutral?
(2) Do you only watch at night without lights, or do you need ambient light performance?
(3) Are you also interested in a DIY solution, that may be much less expensive than a commercial screen?

One comment...if the walls are light colored, I definitely would paint/cover them with something darker (and not too reflective, if possible). I just did this in my HT, and it makes a world of difference.

That's all for now...

Jim
 
#3 ·
Welcome to the Shack Steve!

If your screen is darker than Silver Screen, then you are darker than an N8 said, probably pushing an N7.5 from the way it sounds, maybe a tad lighter than that... anyway the HCCV is lighter than N8 so based on what you are saying that sounds like it's lighter than you want to go and since you are already used to a darker screen, you'll feel the black levels will take a hit with any lighter shade commercial screen. The Silver Matte sounds like something you may like.

Interestingly, both mech and I have seen Silver Matte screens forsale as manual retractable screens and the price was very inexpensive. What you could do is remove the material and put it on a fixed frame and have a Silver Matte for a very decent price.I have the same samples mech has except for Silver Matte. I have a small sample, around 6"x8" but nothing big enough to test. mech should be back Tuesday or Wednesday.
 
#5 ·
Thanks guys. Nice site you have here.

Unfortunately I am in Australia so screen samples are a tad tricky. This also restricts some of the more common DIY solutions such as laminates. The WilsonArt laminate in a screen sized sheet is $350 USD, for example.

My current screen is pretty dark, hence the interest in a positive gain screen like a Silver Matte. I'm also pondering the GrayWolf 2. Checking the Munsell scale and the RGB values I have for my paint, I'm at or below N8. It's not the most neutral grey around, and I would like better whites and brightness, but blacks come first.

I was pondering buying the screen material from Cousins and having it shipped out to frame it here.

I shall await Mechman's return.
 
#6 ·
Hi Steve! Welcome to the Shack!

I love the Silver Matte! If I were to purchase a screen tomorrow it would be my choice!

However, I do not have a light cannon such as yourself! Lately I've heard an awful lot about how bright this projector can be and therefore would be a bit cautious about recommending the Silver Matte for it. From what I've heard regarding your projector, I'd take the safe route and select the HCCV.

I believe I may have a few pics comparing the two (with something else), I'll post them a bit later...

Hope this helps!

mech
 
#7 ·
Thanks. The Marantz isn't specced that much higher than your Mitsubishi, but then again it wasn't specced much higher than my HD70 and it is certainly brighter.

However, I'm looking at quite a big screen, either a 105" wide 2.35 or a 100" width 16:9. And the coolest thing about the VP4001 is that the two irises mean you can easily adjust light output.

Look forward to the pics.
 
#8 ·
Here you go. The panel on the left is my Silver Fire mix. I'm in the process of double checking it's validity. Right now, as is, the SF appears to push blue hard. The Silver Matte is on the top right mounted to the pegboard. HCCV is bottom right.

The projector in these shots was calibrated (brightness and contrast only) to the left SF panel. The gamma mode was set to cinema. The color temperature was set to 6500k, iris closed, lamp in low mode and brilliant color was off.




 
#9 ·
Steve,

Here are a couple others:



Hockey at 60 degrees off axis:



Some more skin tones:











If you think you can keep tame the brightness of your projector, than Silver Matte would be a great option for you. But I am very unfamiliar with the vp4001. :huh:

So some things that I would be thinking about are:
  1. Can I tame the brightness of the vp4001?
  2. Will viewing angle be an issue?
  3. Will there be daytime viewing?

All of my shots were taken with the brightness and contrast set to the Silver Fire panel. Gamma was set to Cinema, color to 6500K, iris closed, and Brilliant Color shut off. If I recall correctly brightness was set to around -12 or so and contrast around -4.

Let me know if you have any more questions!

mech
 
#10 ·
Thanks again.

It certainly seems to be what I'm after. The colour of the Silver Fire seems rather worse. The only question is its affect on absolute black levels. I assume the background screen is Fashion Gray? How do you think the Silver Matte's blacks compared when both were calibrated properly.

As for the things to consider, given my screen size and twin irises, I don't think brightness will be an issue, I only watch from straight on, and I only watch at night.

I can get the material for under $200, so I think I'll give it a go.

Cheers

Steve
 
#13 ·
I assume the background screen is Fashion Gray? How do you think the Silver Matte's blacks compared when both were calibrated properly.
Silver Matte had the best blacks of the four - including my Fashion Grey screen.

As for the things to consider, given my screen size and twin irises, I don't think brightness will be an issue, I only watch from straight on, and I only watch at night.
Then by all means get yourself a Silver Matte and report back! :bigsmile:

mech
 
#11 ·
Steve, clearly the Silver Matte looks great for on-axis viewing, so I think you'll be happy. Worst case, if it's "too bright", you can always get a filter to tame the projector light while the bulb is near new, and then remove the filter as the bulb loses some of it's brightness. So, while the concern over too much brightness is warranted (and I agree you should probably be OK given the flexibility of your pj), there's a simple way to deal with it if it does surface as an issue. "Too much brightness", I would say, is one of the better "problems" to have...it's easily remedied in the near term, and may give you lumens to spare as the bulb ages and dims.
 
#12 ·
Well, after checking reviews of the Sharp Z3000 projector (a rebadged VP4001) I discovered it puts out around 300 lumens in the highest contrast mode at 6500K with both irises closed, up to about 950 with the irises open, and then up to 1400 in full Dynamic mode (which still looks pretty good BTW).

I normally watch movies in the highest contrast mode so I don't think excess light will be a problem. Consequently I put in an order with Cousins for a 110 x 47 Silver Matte screen which should arrive in 10 days or so.

I'll keep you posted when it gets here to Australia.

On a side note, after reading the neutral gray threads I repainted my screen with a more neutral gray, RGB values of 200, 199, 199 and LRV of 61. This is a wee bit brighter than my old screen but doesn't seem to have hurt my beloved blacks and the color is more accurate so I'm happy about that.

Hopefully I'll feel the same about the Silver Matte.
 
#14 ·
the vp4001 is actually a bit more dim than than the HC3000 when both iris' are stopped down. when set to medium mode (1 iris closed) it's a bit brighter than the HC3000 but not by too much. when you open both iris' it's a light canon.

mech's screenies should provide a very good source for what the picture might look like with the PJ in medium mode.
 
#17 ·
The screen arrived today and I've spent the past few hours checking it out. I simply taped it to the wall for the moment, so there are a few visible wrinkles and waves. I have discounted those.

To be honest, I'm somewhat disappointed.

The good news is that the blacks are the same or slightly better than my n8 grey painted wall. No surprise since the Silver Matte is darker. Colours also look good, so no complaints there.

However, in spite of the 1.3 gain the screen is no brighter overall than my current wall. The emphasis here is on 'overall'.

With my projector, which is shelf mounted 14.5 feet away just above my seated head, I get quite obvious hotspotting at a point level with the lens. The screen gets darker away from this spot. Since my projector is just below the screen, this means that the top of the screen is noticeably darker than the bottom. Too dark.

There is a corresponding bright spot lower down. I'm not very good with a camera, but hopefully the attached shots will give you an idea. One is a flash shot to show screen color, the other with a blue screen to show the hotspot.

I may still frame it up and see if that makes a difference, but at the moment I'll be look at a Graywolf or just sticking with what I have.
 

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#18 ·
Steve,

Definitely frame it up and take a new look at it. Also re-do your brightness and contrast settings. When laid flat, you should get a uniform image such as this



In your shots it appears that you're taking shots from below the screen looking upwards. Try to take one from straight on with a flash - after you get it stretched and mounted.

Compared to an N8, everything should be the same except for brighter whites and brighter overall image. Go back and tone down the projector's settings and re-evaluate. Remember, you're going from what's more than likely a .8 to a 1.3 and from a flat or matte paint to something that has metal flakes in it.

Report back!:bigsmile:

mech
 
#20 ·
Steve,

What did you use to re-calibrate? Is the first shot a shot of white light from the pj? Are you shooting upwards with your camera? It does appear to be a bit over-exposed in the blue screen shot. When I did the Silver Matte/High Power Shootout, I had the pj table mounted at head level and experienced no hot spotting. I have not tested a full screen as Da-Lite wouldn't send me one. :scratch: What did you end up paying for the Silver Matte?

I think you should be able to tweak it - the pj I mean. And I can't fathom why it would be no brighter than your current N8 either? You've got me a bit stumped! It was brighter than the white pegboard that I had it attached to for the review:





And there was no hot spotting - granted it was a 2 foot square sample. If it didn't cost an arm and a leg to ship it from Australia, I'd probably buy it from you. :bigsmile:

mech
 
#24 ·
That would mean I'd have to downsize my current 100" 16:9 to a less than 96" diagonal. I'm tempted just to test it....:scratch: But I would not be thrilled with going with a smaller screen size. :nono::rubeyes:

mech
 
#26 ·
I mounted it a little more securely and eliminated the wrinkles and billowing which helped the hotspotting a lot, although there is still some variation from bottom to top. It does indeed keep the blacks nice and black, but is not giving me the added brightness I wanted.

So I'm going to try an Optoma Graywolf which I will nab when I'm in the States. I may also get some Platinum laminate just for the of it as it is $350 over here.

So if you're interested in a slightly used Silver Matte screen at a good price, drop me a PM. I'm happy to bring it over with me.
 
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