The Punisher vs. The Punisher

[wbassett]

It's been awhile since I've done any reviews, work and other projects became very hectic and then in the middle of it I blew my knee out.

I'm back though and like I always tried to do, I like to present sometimes obscure movies that many tend to overlook

Here we have one movie I'm sure many know about and have seen, and then a movie that has a bit of a different take on the same character.

We'll start off with the one most are familiar with... The 2004 release of The Punisher starring Tom Jane.

Actors: Thomas Jane, John Travolta, Will Patton, Eddie Jemison, Rebecca Romijn
Directors: Jonathan Hensleigh
Format: Closed-captioned, Color, Dolby, DTS Surround Sound, DVD-Video, Special Edition, Subtitled, Widescreen, NTSC
Language: English
Subtitles: English, Spanish
Region: Region 1 (U.S. and Canada only. Read more about DVD formats.)

Aspect Ratio: 2.35:1
Number of discs: 1
Rating:
Studio: Lions Gate
DVD Release Date: November 21, 2006
Run Time: 140 minutes


The Punisher is another adaptation of the ever popular Marvel Comic super hero's. The Punisher is a bit different in the sense that he has no super powers and is just an ordinary guy, well ordinary in the sense he can't fly or climb walls or anything like that. Everything else about him is anything but what we would call ordinary.

I have to admit that I didn't read this comic when I was growing up so I can't attest to how well it actually follows the comic book character. I do know a little about The Punisher though and these movies.

In this version Frank Castle (Thomas Jane) is an undercover FBI agent that can speak five languages and change his looks to go deep undercover. The story opens with Frank posing as 'Otto', a German arms dealer about to 'close the deal' on some buyers. During the raid things go bad and there is a shootout, and Frank is fatally shot in view of the buyer. At this point in the movie we don't know (or aren't supposed to know) this is Frank Castle. It is soon revealed that Frank's death was a trick so he could once again disappear and show up somewhere else undercover.

Of course one of the baddies that gets killed is the son of mobster Howard Saint, played over the top by John Travolta. Saint of course wants revenge, and has the money to buy any information or person he wants. His intentions are to kill the family of the arms dealer Otto, when he discovers that Otto is actually Castle, and to his twisted pleasure also is informed he is still alive, Saint orders the hit on Castle's entire family.

Like all super hero Genesis, something major and tragic has to happen, and that is more so with The Punisher. Saint sends a hit squad to kill Frank and his entire family. Saint's thugs carry out the task and even Frank is shot at point blank range in the chest and dumped off a boat dock. He is of course assumed to be dead, however we all know differently or else the movie would be over.

We see Frank somehow miraculously survive the several .45 shots to the chest as he manages to swim ashore after the hit squad leaves. He finds the skull T Shirt his son bought him and collects up all his father's weapons and sets off for his brand of justice and vengeance.

Up until this point the movie had a lot of potential. It was gritty and ultra violent, a major departure from most comic super hero to movie adaptations. Where things went from here though are a bit questionable and turned 'cartoonish'.


Each and every 'villian' becomes more and more like a parady and as I said a cartoon.

They also threw in a trio of helpless apartment dwellers that live in the same run down apartment Frank takes up residence in. For extra measure and obvious eye candy Rebecca Romijn is part of the cast and also a potential 'love interest' for Castle.

The movie gets some things right, but many things wrong. Castle's Punisher is a man devoid of emotions and concious, who's only purpose in life is to 'Punish the Guilty'. The cartoonish villain parody conscious aspect was unnecessary since this is an R rated movie and they could have kept it dark and gritty all the way through. The aspect of a man losing everything, even his soul in a sense, and becoming a killing machine that blurs the line of justice and being just as bad as those he hunts is an excellent story line and more suited for the adult audience an R rated movie is obviously targeting.

Overall it wasn't the worse movie I have ever watched, but not the best super hero movie either.

Now we move to the more obscure section of my DVD library and take a look at the 1989 version of The Punisher starring Dolph Lundgren.

Actors: Dolph Lundgren, Louis Gossett Jr., Jeroen Krabbé, Kim Miyori, Bryan Marshall
Directors: Mark Goldblatt
Format: Subtitled, NTSC
Language: English
Region: Region 1
Aspect Ratio: 1.85:1
Number of discs: 1
Rating:
Studio: Live / Artisan
DVD Release Date: April 20, 1999
Run Time: 92 minutes


As in the 2004 version, the story is about Frank Castle and the catalyst that caused him to become a one man vigilante killing machine. Both movies follow the comic book in the sense they portray the reason Frank becomes the emotionless 'Punisher' because of the ruthless murder of his wife and children. Missing in this version is the not only the camp, but the trade mark Punisher Skull blazen across his chest.

Production value is much lower for the 1989 version and some question Dolph's acting ability but this may be one of his better roles. Unlike the 2004 version, this Frank Castle is noticeably guilt ridden and a total mess. He is a fugitive from the police force that he used to work for and reduced to living underground in the city's sewers.


Lou Gossett Jr. turns in an acceptable if not somewhat phoned in performance. He plays a cop that was also down on his luck and gave up on life, turning to the bottle for his answers. Frank came along and as an ambitious rookie befriended Gossett's character Jake Berkowitz and pulled him out of the bottle and back to being a respectable cop. Jake wants to do the same for his friend Frank, but Castle seems to be way too far gone mentally and emotionally.

This is a much darker and grittier movie and if production values would have had more money and resources this could have been one of the better comic book adaptations as well as an all around intense action flick.

In this version Frank's rampage as The Punisher leaves the NY mob weak and without strong leadership. His five year killing spree has caused an unexpected result- It has attracted the attention of the Yakuza, Asia's most powerful crime syndicate, who decide to take over the mob families and all their interests. In order to coherse the remaining mob leaders into complying with their demands, the Yakuza kidnap all their children and threaten to sell them off into child slavery. Even though the mob bosses pay up, Lady Tanaka, the ruthless leader of the Yakuza has no intentions of returning the children.

Frank shows he hasn't totally lost his humanity and sets out to rescue the children but still dishes out his own form of justice.

Some people question Dolph Lundgren's acting ability, and I agree he hasn't shown a huge range. However this is one of his better performances and he really comes across in some scenes as a man that isn't quite a man anymore, and he is a much more physical presence in this version than Jane is in the 2004 remake. I don't fault Jane, he's a good actor and I am sure he turned in the performance that the director wanted.

In the 1989 version, when Producer Robert Kamen acquired the film rights, he wanted to create the most realistic fight scenes possible. As the script developed and the Japanese Yakuza became an integral part of the plot, Kamen decided to seek out martial arts experts to fill in parts in the movie. Lundgren was the former European and Australian heavy weight full contact champion, and Kamen knew he wanted Dolph for the lead. Dolph went back into training and by the time filming started he was back to his 220 pound fighting weight. Probably one of the most interesting things to note about this movie is that in order to create the 'realism' Kamen wanted the fight scenes are not pre-choreographed. Instead he let the martial arts experts fight things out using actual fight techniques.

Dolph really doesn't get his due respects. Aside from being a former full contact heavy weight champion, he is also a graduate from the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm and then he attended MIT as a Fulbright Scholar.

As you can tell, I like the 1989 version better than the remake. There are times when the production values and no name secondary actors show the weak spots of this version, but over all it is a solid entry in my DVD collection. It does have some camp and eye rolling moments, however nowhere near as many as the 2004 version and the story line is much better in my opinion.

Actually, these two movies could go hand in hand if you want to look at them in reverse order... With a few quick edits, the 1989 version actually could be the sequel to the Jane version of the Punisher, showing Frank deteriorating even further into depression and angst, even abandoning most contact with other humans in favor of living in the dank dirty sewers of the city. If you look at it like that, these two movies can coexists nicely together.

Sound- Both movies have plenty of bass from the numerous explosions and shootouts. Also the 2004 version has some beautiful scenes with the roar of big block muscle cars, and in the 1989 version The Punisher drives a Harley, which sounds fantastic even for an older movie.

I highly recommend if you have the 2004 version to pick up the 1989 version and give it a chance, once you get past the cheesy opening credits and low production value, it's not a bad movie.

Coming soon... Beowulf vs. Beowulf... and maybe even vs. a third Beowulf version! I also have a very rare 1994 version of The Fantastic Four I'll review sometime.

Don't over look older releases, sometimes they can be a lot of fun too!

[Sonnie]

I watched the Thomas Jane version and liked it pretty well. I am kinda like you in that it was going really well up to a point and then fell off somewhat.

I have never been a big fan of Dolph Lundgren and often wondered who saw what in him to be an actor.

[wbassett]

Dolph is a bit of an enigma. To say he is a great actor would be a joke, but the same can be said about Arnold, Sly, Van Damme, and all the 80's/90's action stars. Seeing that we have a huge lack of current action stars, if Dolph's career had started now he would be the next mega action star.

His first role was thanks to his then wife Grace Jones who got him a bit part in the horrendously awful Bond flick A View to a Kill. From there he was discovered by Sly and cast as Drago and that's when he was officially 'discovered'.

I really think the timing was all wrong for him. Of course some of the bad movie choices that he was cast in didn't help either.

I think certain actors are tailor made for certain roles. Nobody else could have done Rocky like Stallone, and as great of an actor as people revere De Niro as being, I feel he really only plays certain roles well, which to me are basically... well De Niro. Still nobody plays those roles better.

Last I heard Dolph pretty much gave up and retired. I still like him in this role, cheesy black makeup 5o'clock shadow and all.

Like I said, to me I feel he did a better job at capturing the mental breakdown and anguish of the character much better and his dry deadpan dialog delivery was spot on for this character. It really could be the character from the 2004 movie but five years later after he basically went completely insane.

Some of my favorite lines from the 1989 version-

The Punisher: Sitting lotus style, meditating naked and dirty in the sewer- surrounded by lit candles.

I still talk to God sometimes, I ask him if what I'm doing is right or wrong, I'm still waiting for an answer, and until I get one, I'll be waiting, watching, THE GUILTY WILL BE PUNISHED!
____________________________________________________________________

Jake:
What exactly do you call 125 murders in 5 years?

The Punisher:
Work in progress.

____________________________________________________________________

Gianni Franco:
There's a limit to revenge you know.

The Punisher:
I guess I just haven't reached mine yet.

____________________________________________________________________

And one that slips by quick but was fun...

[the Punisher is being tortured]
Lady Tanaka:
Who sent you?

The Punisher:
Batman.
____________________________________________________________________

The Punisher: Meditating

Come on God, answer me. For years I'm asking why, why are the innocent dead and the guilty alive? Where is justice? Where is punishment? Or have you already answered, have you already said to the world here is justice, here is punishment, here, in me.

____________________________________________________________________

There were some good lines in the 2004 version, but honestly Tom Jane's Frank Castle really didn't come across as a man who completely snapped and his scripted lines were more for dramatic punch where as Dolph's were written and delivered as a man desperately seeking meaning and sense out of the violence, and yet to get an answer.

I certainly did not take either of these movies too seriously, but the older version is definitely much darker and gets into the mind of a man who lost everything and it conveys that sentiment better.

Like I said, if you remotely liked the 2004 version, check out the 1989 version too.

[nova]

First half was ok,...second half Way too many films start off good and,...well just can't seem to finish. Don't recall if I've seen the '89 version.

wbassett wrote:

Dolph is a bit of an enigma. To say he is a great actor would be a joke, but the same can be said about Arnold, Sly, Van Damme, and all the 80's/90's action stars.

What,...don't think Stallone can act? What about Rocky (the original), Cop Land, Night Hawks, The Lords of Flatbush, Shade, and maybe even First Blood. I think maybe more a victim of poorly chosen scripts or just looking for the big blockbuster / big payday. Personally I'm not a big Stallone fan but I do think his acting abilities are far and above those others Ok,...maybe not a "Great" actor, but still,....

[wbassett]

Mark don't get in a dander

I happen to have many posts praising Stallone, and if you read the rest of my comments, I didn't give De Niro a free ride either. Rocky was very good acting, especially for a new commer. And in Copland he does a great job.

Dolph does a good job in this movie but like some of the other actors mentioned even though they may not be a Brando or Olivier (both of whom I think are overated) there are certain roles only Sly can play and same for Dolph.

As far as this movie goes, check it out if you haven't seen it. Like I said, over look some of the low production value items and I think people may really like it.

[Wayde]

Personally I loved the Thomas Jane Pushiner movie. It used a lot of Clint Eastwood western techniques. Shooting without looking etc. What I especially liked was there was no CGI special effects in it, until the very end with the skull in flames - could have done without that though, it was corny.

Also, the stunts were real. Those were real stuntmen doing everything from driving to getting blown up. It reminded me of an old action film from the 70s or 80s.

[wbassett]

Wayde if you haven't, check out the older version of the Punisher sometime. There were stunts, but no CGI at all, plus as I mentioned the fight scenes weren't choreographed. They let the martial arts experts duke it out.

I do like both movies but I favor the older version just a little more.

[Wayde]

It's been a long time since I saw that old Punisher, I'll check it out again somtime. I loved the uzi wielding Ninjas - I believe they were sliding down something while firing their weapons. Classic stuff!

[hyghwayman]

Bad actors of the 70's and 80's, there were too many.