Mitsubishi V26 chassis (1st gen DLP) capacitor failures

[lcaillo]

There seems to be a pattern of failure of many capacitors in this chassis series. Problems that relate to these failures are the failure to complete boot cycle (timer LED blinks continuously) and a number of startup issues including lamps not starting or shutting down. The most obvious manifestation of the failures are swollen or vented caps. We have seen sets with a dozen or more swollen capacitors. Many more are often on the way to failing, demonstrating low capacitance, high dielectric absorbtion, high ESR, or d.c. leakage. These caps are the conventional radial polar electrolytics made by Jamicon.

Additionally, some of the problems with lines in the picture may be due to problems with surface mount capacitors. We have found caps on the DM that appear to be thermally sensitive, and have high ESR.

One can speculate as to the reason for these failures, but it seems certain that all of the radial polar electrolytics made by Jamicon are suspect. Virtually all that test are marginal or test bad, even if they are not swelling. I recommend replacing all of the following caps.

The most reliable brand and supplier at the best prices that I have found seems to be the Panasonic caps from Digi-Key. Use the longest life, lowest impedance, 105 degree caps available in the right size and value.



Terminal 1 board
CL203 1000uF 10V

Terminal 2 board
C2M28 1000uF 10V
C2M29 1000uF 10v

FMT board
C8F19 1000uF 16V
C8F21 1000uF 16V
C8F22 1000uF 16V
C8F27 1000uF 16V

DM board
C81A2 1000uF 16V
C81A3 1000uF 16V
C81B3 1000uF 16V
C81B4 1000uF 16V

Signal board
C8788 330uF 16V
C8738 330uF 16V
C8717 330uF 16V
C8761 330uF 16V
C8780 330uF 16V
C8798 330uF 16V
C87A3 330uF 16V
C8797 330uF 25V
C8710 330uF 10V
C8727 330uF 10V
C87A0 330uF 10V
C87A7 330uF 10V
C3E51 470uF 35V
C3E52 470uF 35V
C3E53 470uF 35V
C3E54 470uF 35V

Power Supply
C9A52 1000uF 16V
C9A59 1000uF 16V
C9A61 1000uF 16V
C9A62 1000uF 16V
C9A39 2200uF 35V
C9A40 2200uF 35V
C? 3300uF 16V
C? 3300uF 16V

[lcaillo]

After servicing a few of the sets that have capacitor problems, I am more convinced that the problem is going to be more complex to solve than just replacing the radial caps. Mitsubishi is obiously recognizing this, as they have been providing at least partial assistance on the cost of repairing the problems for many clients.

As an experiment on a WD-52725, which had a repeat failure (flashing timer LED, failure to boot DM) after replacing all of the radial caps, I began testing the surface mount caps on the DM. I tested most of them in circuit and found many that looked bad, so I decided to start pulling them and testing them out of circuit. I used a Sencore LC105, which tests four parameters, capacitance, ESR, dielectric absorbtion, and dc leakage. These are the values for the caps I tested, listed following the location and stated value of each capacitor.


Surface Mount Caps
DM board
C81B3 220uF 6V 136uF 525ohm 9% 0.37uA low capacitance, high ESR, marginal DA
C81B8 220uF 6V 144uF 176ohm 6% 0.45uA low capacitance, high ESR
C7002 220uF 6V 189uF 2.2ohm 6% 248mA marginal capacitance, high leakage
C7003 220uF 6V 195uF 2.5ohm 7% 243mA high leakage
C70C3 100uF 6V 56uF 15.9ohm 7% 13.8uA low capacitance, high ESR
C70C4 100uF 6V 61uF 15.8ohm 6% 13.2uA low capacitance, high ESR
C70B4 100uF 6V 51uF 19.6ohm 7% 1.1uA low capacitance, high ESR
C70B5 100uF 6V 29uF 41ohm 9% 0.9uA low capacitance, high ESR
C70B1 47uF 6V 6uF 42ohm 10% 0.6uA low capacitance, high ESR, marginal DA
C70C1 47uF 6V 23uF 23ohm 8% 0.7uA low capacitance, high ESR


more to come, many more tested...

Yes ... and ask me how I know this? My Mits WD-52725 was just returned to me today by the Home Theatre Store (where I originally purchased the TV). This TV is on it's 3rd replacement bulb, the Thermal Sensor has already been replaced and today, the reason for repair was (and I will quote from the repair ticket) "Unit needed new chassis/DM Module". THANK GOODNESS we purchased the extended warranty on this TV when we bought (for $3100) in Jan. 2005. According to the repair ticket, the cost for this latest (chassis) replacement was $1,223.23 (including labor, travel and tax). There is just no excuse for an expensive TV like this to have so many problems. Right now I am thrilled with the picture quality and everything seems to be working fine. BUT I am not dumb enough to think this will be the end of our problems. I understand there is a class action lawsuit pending on these units in California right now. WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT THIS TV HAS BEEN. WE WILL NEVER PURCHASE ANOTHER MITSUBISHI PRODUCT AGAIN ......

[lcaillo]

The point of this thread was not to generate such rants. The fact is that we sold dozens of these and only a few have had problems. Mitsubishi is, for now, still one of the better products to have. The point is to better deal with the problems that do exist.

Now if you want to discuss your particular issues, and learn more about what might be going on with your set, I will be happy to do so, but let's stick to facts rather than emotional rants.

lcaillo wrote:

The point of this thread was not to generate such rants. The fact is that we sold dozens of these and only a few have had problems. Mitsubishi is, for now, still one of the better products to have. The point is to better deal with the problems that do exist.

Now if you want to discuss your particular issues, and learn more about what might be going on with your set, I will be happy to do so, but let's stick to facts rather than emotional rants.

Sorry about the rant .... needless to say, I am EXTREMELY frustrated. Would/can you believe that since I posted my response to your original post the TV has already malfunctioned? I now have the flashing green timer light of death again. I have unplugged the TV from the wall for 30 minutes, then plugged it back in. The timer light immediately starts flashing and I am unable to turn the TV on. I have already notified the service/warranty folks. When I mentioned your post to them concerning the Jamicon capicitors possibly being defective, they brushed me off and said their course of action is to order yet another new chassis Board from Mitsubishi. In other words, they do not attempt to replace the capacitors .... rather their solution is to replace the whole (defective) Board with another whole new board? I am at my wits end with this. Any advice you might provide will be appreciated.

Leonard .... one more thing .... since my earlier post to you this afternoon, I have called Mits Customer Relations and they informed me that Mits "no longer even makes new chassis for the DLP tvs". Instead they provide "rebuilt chassis" to the service technicians?? In your opinion, should I print off your post on this board and give it to the service technician when he comes to pick up our TV for this DM Module repair? I figure if he works on these TVs he should already know the capicitors on the Mits chassis are defective but maybe he doesn't know this? I am at a loss .... just frustrated with all the problems and don't know what to think. Look forward to your response ....

Vicki (gohorns1)

[lcaillo]

It would likely be pointless. Your tech will likely not be willing to rebuild the chassis. Most are too lazy and just use what the vendor sends them. Most techs are just board swappers these days. If he does not already know about it he does not do his homework and does not want to bother. They will just milk the extended warranty company until you insist on a replacement set, then move on.

No manufacturers continue to make new boards for sets out of production. They make a certain number based on the expected failure rates, then when they are gone, that is it. They require return of the old boards in some cases, rebuild them, and sell them again.

As I stated above, I wonder if all these people that are getting rebuilt boards from mits are getting the same old caps that will continue to fail.

Thank you for the list of the caps. But since I'm a rookie at this cap stuff.. I hope it wouldn't be too much trouble to tell me the part numbers for those Panasonic caps from Digi-Key that you recommend... It would help me out alot when ordering..

I have already taken my WD-62825 apart, and it looks like the following 2 caps are swollen;
C8780 from the signal board
C9A37 from the power board

But after reading your post, I'm thinking of changing out most of them..

Thanks
#2

[lcaillo]

Yes, it would be too much trouble. I go to great lengths to provide useful information and spend lots of my time replying to posts and moderating here. I gave you a great deal of info about the caps, and even gave you a suggestion for a supplier.

The point of the post is that you should change all of them if you change any at all. If you just change the ones that you think are bad, you will be getting back into it later. That might not be a big deal with most sets, but with this one the disassembly is troublesome and the risk of damage to delicate cables quite high.

lcaillo wrote:

It would likely be pointless. Your tech will likely not be willing to rebuild the chassis. Most are too lazy and just use what the vendor sends them. Most techs are just board swappers these days. If he does not already know about it he does not do his homework and does not want to bother. They will just milk the extended warranty company until you insist on a replacement set, then move on.

No manufacturers continue to make new boards for sets out of production. They make a certain number based on the expected failure rates, then when they are gone, that is it. They require return of the old boards in some cases, rebuild them, and sell them again.

As I stated above, I wonder if all these people that are getting rebuilt boards from mits are getting the same old caps that will continue to fail.

Leonard ... my TV was returned today from having the 2nd chassis replaced (Mits. WD-52725 DLP TV). I am now getting a message on-screen that reads as follows (I will quote): "HDTV does not support HDCP. Disconnect HDMI and use YPrPb connection to continue watching TV". The only way we can now watch TV is to run the cable directly to the TV and not use HDMI?? I have already called my ext. warranty people and they gave me (yet another) claim # .... my question to you is do you have any theories on what might be causing the HDMI to be non-functional? Could it be some defect in the replacement chassis they recently installed? Many thanks for any advice you might offer.

[lcaillo]

What are you using for a source and are you using the same connections that you were previously?

lcaillo wrote:

What are you using for a source and are you using the same connections that you were previously?

Leonard, yes, I tried to use the same connections I used previously .... we have always used the HDMI cable .... connected to the back of the TV and plugged into the back of the Comcast cable HD-DVR box. The delivery guy tried everything he could think of while he was here and continued to get the error message I wrote you about in the earlier post. His suggestion was to operate the TV without using the HDMI cable (i.e. regular cable is running directly to TV now) and to file a new claim with our ext. warranty people. His "theory" was that there was something wrong with the new chassis they had installed that was preventing the HDMI from working. The only other components that are connected to the TV is a DVD player and a Technics receiver -- both appear to be working fine (the delivery guy checked them while he was here). The problem lies specifically with using the HDMI cable (which is a very expensive cable we bought @ Best Buy - Monster brand - and we paid $135 for it.) Not sure if I answered your question correctly ... if/when you reply, bear in mind I know nothing technical at all about TVs .... I'm a female! LOL

[lcaillo]

I would have to agree. I would make sure that you have the latest firmware for the chassis, which Mitsubishi would have to tell you.

There is no reason to pay that kind of money for a HDMI cable, BTW. You can get the same results with a $5 cable from Monoprice or cables for not much more from many vendors.

lcaillo wrote:

I would have to agree. I would make sure that you have the latest firmware for the chassis, which Mitsubishi would have to tell you.

There is no reason to pay that kind of money for a HDMI cable, BTW. You can get the same results with a $5 cable from Monoprice or cables for not much more from many vendors.

Thank you for your help with this, Leonard. I actually called Mits 2 weeks ago (even had a reference # assigned to the order by Mits) and ordered the software but still haven't received it as of today (May 19th). I just got off the phone w/ Mits and they said it was never sent ... couldn't explain why? Unreal. Anyway, they placed the order again today and said I should receive it in 5 business days. Sure hope this does the trick! Again, many thanks for all your help with this. One other thought I had .... is there something within NetCommand that you "select" to tell the TV to recognize HDMI? I was wondering if maybe all that got erased with the replacement of the chassis (two times now). Just something that occurred to me .... pls. let me know what you think?

[lcaillo]

Nothing that I know of. But I never use NetCommand if I can avoid it. You can try to initialize the set and put it back in OOB condition for all user settings to be sure. MENU, 2 ,4, 7, 0, then select Initialize. It will erase all of the user settings.

lcaillo wrote:

Nothing that I know of. But I never use NetCommand if I can avoid it. You can try to initialize the set and put it back in OOB condition for all user settings to be sure. MENU, 2 ,4, 7, 0, then select Initialize. It will erase all of the user settings.

NEW PROBLEM LEONARD!! Despite the fact that the TV doesn't work using the HDMI cable, tonight when we turned it on and had been watching it for about 10 minutes, it made a loud fluttering/clicking sound, the screen went black (not blue) and the lamp light began flashing. Shortly thereafter, the TV turned off by itself. I couldn't believe it. I waited about 20 minutes, tried turning the TV on again, this time it came on and the picture lasted about 10 minutes. After the 10 minutes, the screen went completely blue, then the lamp light started flashing green and the TV shut down again. Mind you, we have already had the thermal sensor replaced on the TV plus we are on our THIRD bulb (this is in addition to the fact that we have had TWO chassis put in this TV). I do not feel it is a bulb issue because we have a decent picture until the TV decides to shut down. Any more theories on what could be causing this? I have a tech coming out to the house on Thurs. to address the HDMI issue but now it appears things are much worse than that. I am at my wit's end here .... thanks in advance for any ideas you might have on what's causing this latest problem ...

[lcaillo]

It is my opinion that unless many dozens of capacitors are replaced in these chassis, you will continue to have a variety of problems. Trying to figure out what is causing what is fruitless until the problems with the many failing caps is eliminated.

[dhenderson5028]

I have the WD- 55525 and the tech repalced the DM board.. Still no TV, I'm waiting for approval from GE ESP to send the chassis back to Mits for a rebuild. Question will Mits replace all the caps on the boards or just the bad ones ?? Are they still using the caps that started this whole mess ??

dhenderson5028 wrote:

I have the WD- 55525 and the tech repalced the DM board.. Still no TV, I'm waiting for approval from GE ESP to send the chassis back to Mits for a rebuild. Question will Mits replace all the caps on the boards or just the bad ones ?? Are they still using the caps that started this whole mess ??

That's the whole problem .... apparently Mits is replacing these chassis and using the same brand caps made by the original manufacturer (Jamicon?) per Leonard Icaillo's original post. Therefore, the problem with the capicitors really isn't solved at all .... replacing the chassis and using defective capicitors just delays the inevitable. A a really bad deal all the way around ... especially considering the cost of these TVs. Just stay on top of the problems with your extended warranty folks. Believe me, what you are experiencing right now is only the beginning. Ask me how I know?

[dhenderson5028]

Update. I have been informed by GE ESP that they are reviewing the chassis rebuilt. They are looking at rebuild the chassis or replace the tv. You know which one i'm hoping for...

[dhenderson5028]

gohorns: What drama am I looking at with this issue ???

[dhenderson5028]

Update to my last post.. GE Warranty has thrown in the towel.. They are giving me $1,300 to replace the WD- 52525. They don't want the 52525, but the do want the new DM board they had installed.. The tech will be out today to take the new DM board and return my old one.. I have a friend that will help me replace the caps on the 52525 and a co-worker that will give me $500 when I get it operational again. We went to RC Willey on Saturday and purchased a 50" Panny plasma.

[dhenderson5028]

Is this the complete list of caps I need for the v-26 chassis (WD-52525) ???

[lcaillo]

NO! These are only the radial electrolytics. What we have since discovered is that virtually every polar electrolytic cap would have to be changed, even the surface mounted ones. This would amount to changing hundreds of caps. In the future we will not be servicing these chassis at all other than to pack it up and ship it to Mitsubishi for a rebuild. Hopefully they will b e rebuilding them to be more reliable, but there is no way to be sure.

I recently started pulling and testing the caps on a DM module, since many were testing bad in circuit. What I found was that very few of them tested good out of circuit. I went through every polar electrolytic on the board and only found a few that were good. There is obvoulsly a big problem with the caps that they used. If you try to repair the boards in these sets you may well be wasting your time if you do not change virtually every cap in the set.

[dhenderson5028]

Well I found out that the tech tv will be taking the old DLP so it is all mute point now... Thanks for all the help.. I will enjoy my new Panny 50" plasma..