Too Much Green!

**Andysu** · **10-13-09, 08:47 AM**

No it has nothing to do with “the incredible Hulk” thou I’m not far of from being red faced at all this green smearing effect.

I’ve noticed a lot of this yucky green getting in the way that smears the look of the film on DVD.

I’ve figured it out. It has to do with bluish background colours. I know this wouldn’t show up in the cinema it would be unheard of it since its pure light on film.

I can see they have made some improvements by reducing the green as one would think their TV is on the Fritz.

**lcaillo** · **10-13-09, 10:04 AM**

Mastering DVDs can be very complex. There are often slight differences in color. I am not sure why you assume that this is not in the film, however. You may want to post the name of the movie that you are using as an example and explain what improvements that you think have been made.

**Andysu** · **10-14-09, 08:30 AM**

Quote:

lcaillo wrote:

Mastering DVDs can be very complex. There are often slight differences in color. I am not sure why you assume that this is not in the film, however. You may want to post the name of the movie that you are using as an example and explain what improvements that you think have been made.

Hello
I know for sure i used to be a projectionst and i never saw this horrable green smearing.
Its on many if not all DVD titles.

I’m using a diffrent pc at school at the moment. I can’t cheak my spelling on this Microsoft 2007 word version.

Anyway when i get home i’ll post a few more films that have this offending green smearing colour.
As for the examples from Close Encounters of the Third Kind you see the diffrence. I was rather surpised to less green in the orignal 1977 relesae on the new verson that is the same as the blu-ray.
If anyone can show me screen capture from the blu-ray same sequnce i’d be surpised to see even less green smearing.

Ofter green smearing offenders are

The Abyss
Cape Fear
Terminator 2

I can’t recall the rest as i’m not home at present time.

**lcaillo** · **10-14-09, 12:01 PM**

I was never aware of a "green smearing" problem with DVD as opposed to film. I have no idea what might be going on that you are experiencing.

**Andysu** · **10-16-09, 08:43 AM**

Quote:

lcaillo wrote:

I was never aware of a "green smearing" problem with DVD as opposed to film. I have no idea what might be going on that you are experiencing.

If I can see you and everyone else can see it. Now then!

The screen capture proves it.

I’ll fish up a few more thou no A & B comparison as I don’t have well I do on laserdisc hmm. I know I’ll do a video transfer with this little (black box) that I brought the other day no its not a (flight recorder) its one of those devices that patches to the computer via USB for video and RCA for audio.

I’ll do a DVD short clip and laserdisc short clip the video won’t be 100 perfect in sharpness but sure will show the green smearing!

I’ll post as soon as the videos are uploaded will take a few hours.

**Andysu** · **10-16-09, 09:55 AM**

Okay three samples from Terminator 2 Judgement Day. Two are NTSC laserdisc editions and one is DVD region 2

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

The sound isn’t in Dolby stereo because I can’t get this pc to receive stereo on the input on the substandard pc card or it just doesn’t support going though the webcam input. Who cares! If you want it in Dolby watch it at home. Now then!

**lcaillo** · **10-16-09, 04:12 PM**

I am sorry, but there are too many unknowns and variables in your comparisons and complaints to conclude much of anything. YouTube videos are hardly a way to make comparisons. I don't know what player or capture devices you are using, much less what kind of decoding problems they may have, nor what might be happening in the compression and encoding for youtube.

If you want to discuss the possible reasons for your problem, let's start with a particular comparison between discs and what equipment you are using, what signal types you are using, and what you are using to display them. What you have provided is essentially a rant and some defense of what you seem to think is an argument, and is not very informative. I am happy to try to figure out what you might be experiencing and why, but you will have to provide more information.

**Harpmaker** · **10-19-09, 07:53 PM**

This may have nothing to do with the problem Andy is talking about, but a number of years ago when DVD set-top recorders were becoming popular LiteOn brought out several models (5001 and 5045) that had a problem we called "The Green Tint" where there was an overall greenish tint to the picture, but it was by far the worst in dark areas of the picture. I don't know what caused this, but it was eventually fixed via a firmware update.

**Richard W. Haines** · **11-03-09, 01:05 PM**

Leonard is correct.

There are too many variables to make any conclusions.

However, there is a problem in features shot in Eastmancolor from 1952-1982 regarding
color fading. Most major features have black and white separations that can be used
to restore the color if the camera negative is too far gone. All pre-1982 films shot with
Kodak color negatives faded to various degrees. It was a very unstable format. The
negatives do not stop fading either. They continue to get worse over the years.

There are also rare cases where a film is altered in it's DVD release, sometimes by the
film-maker himself as was the case of Friedkin and "The French Connection". He made
the colors intentionally colder for later DVD releases than they were in the original prints.

In general, video colorists try to find some original release version in some format as a
reference before mastering a movie these days. For new features the director and/or
cinematographer supervise the transfers. In the case of old Technicolor movies, they have the
advantage that the original dye transfer prints didn't fade so they can be used as a reference. Eastmancolor prints all faded but sometimes there is a post-1983 (after 1983 they developed low fade Eastmancolor negative and prints) element to use as a reference when mastering a movie.

And they keep improving the transfer machines. 2K used to be the standard but it was sub-standard. That was replaced by 4K which was much better. Now they are mastering in
8K ("Wizard of Oz", "North by Northwest") which is superior. So the later the transfer, the
more likely that it will surpass the previous release on DVD or Blu-Ray. Which is why it's integral for all distributors and owners of movies to keep a hard copy on 35mm film for the future as better video/digital systems are developed.

**Andysu** · **11-12-09, 03:30 AM**

Well I was looking at Close Encounters of the Third Kind on Bluray priced at £15.00 pounds yesterday and couldn’t decided on what Bluray title to buy? Yes that’s right I brought a Bluray player yesterday.

I don’t know if the same issues exist on Bluray and it forced me to say (I’m not interested in buying another Close Encounters of the Third Kind) too this lady that I saw in the HMV Bournemouth store. (I have them on laserdisc and DVD).

Well I might change my mind soon, soon not next week or next month, well maybe in few months time, well that would be 2010 maybe.

I think some of the TV broadcasts looked better than this, I’m fairly sure. And that’s analogue TV broadcast.

**lcaillo** · **11-12-09, 10:58 AM**

It is hard to comment on your posts. I can't realy follow your points. Your sentence construction is confusing, and the problems that you attribute to DVD are not familiar to me nor to others here.

TV broadcasts look better than what?

**Andysu** · **11-12-09, 07:36 PM**

Quote:

lcaillo wrote:

It is hard to comment on your posts. I can't realy follow your points. Your sentence construction is confusing, and the problems that you attribute to DVD are not familiar to me nor to others here.

TV broadcasts look better than what?

I’m not perfect at spelling lets leave it there and I’ll try too focus a bit more closer attention too my wording.

Haven’t watched the same film on TV and noticed it has different edge to the image clarity over say laserdisc or maybe even a VHS tape.

I noticed The Abyss and Glory seemed more richer in colour texture as well as details in the soft sand that is thrown into the air when the 54th regiment attacks Fort Wagner or the deep darkness of The Abyss just seemed so much better than VHS laserdisc of the 1990’s.

Too bad I didn’t recorded them off air many years ago, I don’t even watch TV broadcast no more not in the past 5 years, TV licence BBC extortion is the word if you lived in the UK, now then.

I do have few on VHS and I’m sure I have the same film on laserdisc DVD but the signal wasn’t good on the Ariel but I could still see it was better image no matter what.

**Andysu** · **11-14-09, 02:17 AM**

No this is not the Bluray screen captures this is from the region 2 DVD Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines and the same issues also appear on the Bluray so now that I know its plagued with the same issues that is the format because first impressions is what makes it count.

I could do A&B with the DVD/Bluray same scene and put it up on youtube later on in the day.

Still the high resolution is okay but I think its only three-thirds better it needs to go further to make it transparent with the film print nothing less and nothing more and yes we want film grain since that is what its sourced from in the first place.

The chapter mark on DVD is chapter 5.
The chapter mark on Bluray is chapter 3

The studios have really got to pull their socks if they are to produce film like Bluray versions in high definition otherwise its just joke.

**Andysu** · **11-14-09, 02:25 AM**

It will be interesting to see if STAR TREK that come out on DVD/Bluray this Monday 16th November if it has any green smearing issues in some of the white hot light scenes with some bluish colours in the background of the Bluray? Saw it twice at the Empire in Dolby cinema digital and don’t recall seeing horrible green smearing, so I'll have to wait and see?

**Andysu** · **11-14-09, 03:23 AM**

Green smearing is viewable on this Poltergeist DVD transfer and I’m sure it would show up on the Bluray I’m counting on it.

How can you not see this green smearing! I think the guys that did the transfers need to see specsavers because clearly they have eye issues.

Now I’ve seen Poltergeist projected once on 35mm and don’t recall ever seeing green smearing over the image other than hot white light.

**Andysu** · **11-14-09, 03:26 AM**

Its real shame the studios can’t stop messing around with the consumer the paying consumer that is!

I have to say the upscale of the DVD on the Bluray player looks a bit sharper, so that’s little plus.

No the dodgy real-estate guy doesn’t have green smearing but looks like he robbed a bank with paint bomb that exploded over him.

**lcaillo** · **11-14-09, 08:18 AM**

Why do you assume this is a problem with your discs and not your display. I can't really tell much from screen shots anyway, as there are too many variables to know where anything you see originates.

I have not seen what you describe, though I am not in your region, but I have also not heard of it from others.

**Andysu** · **11-14-09, 06:02 PM**

Quote:

lcaillo wrote:

Why do you assume this is a problem with your discs and not your display. I can't really tell much from screen shots anyway, as there are too many variables to know where anything you see originates.

I have not seen what you describe, though I am not in your region, but I have also not heard of it from others.

So how do you talk your way out of the NTSC versions of Terminator 2 WOW that’s your region and Japan! Now then!

Your not colour blind are you? Because maybe that’s why you can’t see the it in the screen captures?

No not my discs! Their discs! Their, the ones who are producing them and don’t forget that.

You can see it, you just want expect the fact it has imperfections. Now then!

LOL my display LOL how much and I know you want you bet LOL that if I was to take the very same DVD to show room and test it out on the flat screen TV that the problem will still exist LOL.

You just want expect it will you. Go and view your DVD/bluray NOW! Or are you afraid that you’ll see the same issues.

I think what, we’re getting is the scarp trimmings off the best beef or lamb chop while they get the best of the best. Now then!

The day I see a perfect transparent copy that doesn’t contain artefacts with no colourization of the image that is none of this over the top green smearing popping up on the image every time there is bright hot ach light with some blue in the background because the issue lies with.

Blue
White hot lights
= Too Much Green!

And you want see this on film projected in the cinema!

**lcaillo** · **11-15-09, 06:32 AM**

I have really tried to figure out what you are talking about, but your poor grammar and contruction, combined with your reliance on screen shots make it very hard to figure out what your problem might be. Your insistence that DVDs have this as an inherent problem is hard to give much credibility to, since no one else seems to be experiencing the problem.

I will not bother to respond to these posts if you don't clean up your grammar and spelling to make them understandable. Please read the posting guidelines for the forum. There are reasons why we require proper grammar and spelling. It facilitates communication and avoids time wasting trying to sort out what someone is trying to say.

Screenshots are largely meaningless to communicate what is going on with a disc. There are too many variables involved to determine much about the color of the original source.

Your post seems to imply that I am involved in some conspiracy to conceal this problem. I assure you that I am not trying to "talk my way out" of anything. I am not color blind, and am actually a technician and calibrator with many years of experience with hundreds of systems, using many different sources. I have actually compared the outputs from test generators to the output of DVD, Laserdisc, BluRay, and other systems and have never identified a problem in the whites that you are describing.

There is obviously something different about your player or display, and I would happily try to sort it out with you if you can contruct meaningful sentences using proper grammar and spelling. You will have to discuss the problem in terms of finding a solution and not making acussations. You will also have to cease making insulting comments. These are all requirements that are clear in the forum rules. You have been given a great deal of flexibility, on the matter of language, but I am done. Follow the rules, post with clarity, post with respect for others, and post some facts that make sense. If you have evidence of others that have this problem, please link to it.

**Andysu** · **11-15-09, 07:24 PM**

Well I’m all eyes if you have solution formula to fixing this, I’d like to know about it.

**lcaillo** · **11-15-09, 09:56 PM**

What display are you using? What have you done that rules out the display as the source of the problem? What players have you used? What kinds of connections? There are many possibilities.

**Andysu** · **11-16-09, 06:47 AM**

Oh, you want the details.

Hmmm okay…

Source players are

Pioneer CLD-1750 laserdisc player mainly used for all Dolby 4.2.4 and dts six-track of feature film playback on CRT Panasonic and LCD video projector

Pioneer CLD-2950 laserdisc player inactive at present moment

Pioneer DV-525 DVD player mainly used for all Dolby feature film playback on CRT Panasonic and LCD video projector

SONY DVP-S360 DVD player used only in the bedroom for stereo playback only

Cello DR-810 DVD-RW and player used in the main room for laserdisc copying for personal home use only

Philips BDP3000 Bluray/DVD player mainly used for all Dolby dts feature film playback on CRT Panasonic and LCD video projector in RGB mode

PowerDVD player pc tower, that is mostly used for screen capturing and I’ve tinkled with the video settings and it’s just not doable because the source video transfer is the one at fault

Panasonic CRT widescreen 32” UK model I can’t be asked to pull it forwards to get the model number.

It’s basically got an S-video with RGB mode as well, has brightness contrast and colour level adjustment sharpness P-NR, AI

Hitachi multimedia LCD video projector CP-X430 that has been rigged up with composite video component video RGB and S-video

It has colour R and colour B mode adjustments brightness contrast a few picture enhancement modes that give dynamic warm cool or normal tonal colour.

I have also tinkered with the settings up and down and it’s the same ole issue.

I’ve also used THX optimum mode to set the whites for darks so that the THX logo is in shadow colour looks fine, that is no one looks like a red face lobster! Colour tone on skin is fairly natural looking for the type of LCD video projector.

Contrast isn’t set high it’s kept fairly low.

That’s basically it. I don’t want a high definition flat screen I’m happy with the CRT and if want to see film presented slightly better I’d use the LCD video projector or go to the Empire Leicester Square.

That is it, and I’m going to run a six-track Dolby Stereo True digital rehearsal now of Star Trek (2009), which I saw twice at Empire in Dolby digital cinema 56KW JBL THX.

I hope the image doesn’t have issues because it was 100% at the Empire

So you can research my video projector because I doubt there is much that can be done with since it has the most video adjustments over the Panasonic CRT.

Cheers

**lcaillo** · **11-16-09, 06:52 AM**

Do all of the DVD sources demonstrate the problem on both displays?

**Andysu** · **11-16-09, 10:10 AM**

Quote:

lcaillo wrote:

Do all of the DVD sources demonstrate the problem on both displays?

Yes on all displays, the above screen capture shots show what ecah dodgy transfer is, except for (theatrical version of Close Encounters of the Third Kind) where it exhibits less of the green smearing due to the neat transfer.

I just viewed Star Trek Bluray B region and its spot on. No issues with its transfer it reflects what, I saw at the Empire all except the large screen and 56KW.

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