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CRT triple gun projectors do some of the best HD available!

13K views 66 replies 12 participants last post by  HiTracey 
#1 · (Edited)
If that "older" CRT triple gun ceiling projector that you have retired because HD came along does line doubling, you can bet that it does HD too, and flawlessly. Which will deliver pix from it that you never thought would have been possible, far better than any line doubler you may have had on it so far. If you retired it because it just didn't deliver what you see out there in the showrooms now, you're in for a treat!

I started a thread here awhile ago about this, right here in this section, but I don't think I put the best title on it. Please check it out, and contact me if you want your "old" (not really!) CRT projector calibrated. With HD on it you won't want anything else, including most of what's out there today in terms of fixed pixel.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...s/27627-hd-beats-pants-off-line-doublers.html


If you want to see what triple gun CRT pjs are really capable of, go to this thread, where screenshots of them are all over the place -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18643807#post18643807

Mr Bob
 
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#27 ·
I love it every time I see one of these CRT fanboy threads.

1. They never tell you all of the downsides of CRT's, just what is good about them. They will tell you whats wrong wit the competing technology thou. They should join the CEA.

Anyway:
A. Convergence; a never ending set of adjustments (yes i=they drift over time),
B. Grey scale; same as above, it will change,
C. A nasty high voltage section up to and over 40kv. Something you don't want to be near,
D. Size and weight,
E. Scan lines, I can see them every time unless I'm really far from the screen,
F. Overscan,
G. Geometric distortion (that can't be corrected by convergence),
H. Fluctuation of image size due to poor regulation in the PS (image expands with bright areas, shrinks with dark scenes)

Did I miss something?
Of course, many of the above are lessened by just purchasing true "broadcast" monitors. :heehee:
 
#28 ·
A. Convergence; a never ending set of adjustments (yes i=they drift over time),
I adjust mine once every 4 months or so and it takes me about 20 min to complete, not a big deal at all and the image still rivals most LCD/plasma displays I have seen .
B. Grey scale; same as above, it will change,
hardly, My gray scale still looks as good as it did 3 years ago.
C. A nasty high voltage section up to and over 40kv. Something you don't want to be near,
Thats easy, just keep your fingers and other body parts away from where it should not be anyhow.
D. Size and weight,
Plasmas weigh just as much and if you have a good sized room who cares about the size.
E. Scan lines, I can see them every time unless I'm really far from the screen,
You must have something wrong with the one you have, CRT RPTVs is known for the best handling of different resolutions.
F. Overscan,
That depends on the set, Mine is less than 3% all the way around. You missing absolutely nothing in those areas.
G. Geometric distortion (that can't be corrected by convergence),
But if the display is calibrated properly this is a non issues as well I have perfectly straight lines all the way across with no distortion of bending.
H. Fluctuation of image size due to poor regulation in the PS (image expands with bright areas, shrinks with dark scenes)
Not sure I have ever seen this.

Seems you have not really looked at a properly tuned display, I do agree that the newer technology is very good however if the current CRT display you have still works there is really no need to upgrade.
 
#29 ·
You must have something wrong with the one you have, CRT RPTVs is known for the best handling of different resolutions.
I have never seen a CRT (not projector) any size, type or quality level that I couldn't see scan lines. You may call it something different, but it's the nature of the beast.
Not sure I have ever seen this.
You have never used the equivalent of a 10-90% APL bounce test pattern off of a DVD (they all have them) and seen the results? :huh:
 
#30 ·
I have never seen a CRT (not projector) any size, type or quality level that I couldn't see scan lines.
And with LCD or Plasma you can see the pixels if its not its native resolution so each have there issues.
You may call it something different, but it's the nature of the beast.You have never used the equivalent of a 10-90% APL bounce test pattern off of a DVD (they all have them) and seen the results? :huh:
Yup, I have both Avia and the Video essentials DVDs and have no issues displaying any of the moving patterns. I do agree that it is tough to get this right but is most certainly is achievable.
 
#31 ·
Visible scan lines are an indication of good focus. If you see scan lines, a digital projector of similar resolution and size will show them as well. The reason that scan lines are likely to be associated with CRT based sets is that many were not 1080p displays and those that were may have displayed lower resolutions at their native resolution rather than scaling to 1080 or whatever the native resolution of a digital display might be.

I can't really argue with videobruce on most of the points, as they have merit. So does Bob, however. both are right and wrong to some degree. Both make the same mistake of taking one polar position, not admitting that another perspective may be valid in a different context than one's own narrow view.

The fact is that CRTs have some very nice characteristics, and if you have a unit designed to do high resolutions, calibrated it properly, and use it in the right application, it may be quite stunning. It is equally true that the stars don't align so perfectly in the vast majority of CRT based applications. Not everyone has the experience with them that Bob or I have, and few people have seen them at their best. The same can be said of digital displays, but they will generally look less bad when set up improperly or just taken out of the box.
 
#33 ·
I never said flat panel technology didn't have it's issues. My point is, threads as the one posted above only state the pluses of that technology. They are slow to nonexistent when it comes to pointing out the minuses.

One point that seems to need clarifying is this issue of scan lines. Thou the thread is referencing to CRT front projectors, the link is referencing to CRTs in general. Direct and RPTVs AFAIR, not front since it is in the RPTV sub-forum.

One point I will agree, when it comes to CCTV, using LCD monitors just plain sucks. I have done some CCTV work and the ultra low resolution (in spite of claims to the contrary) of even the better cameras (heaven forbid using IP cameras), the image on even a small 10" LCD monitor is terrible compares to even a low end 13" CRT monitor without a comb filter.
 
#37 ·
One point that seems to need clarifying is this issue of scan lines. Thou the thread is referencing to CRT front projectors, the link is referencing to CRTs in general. Direct and RPTVs AFAIR, not front since it is in the RPTV sub-forum.
Is it? I just looked over the heading it's in, thought I had placed it correctly. If this thread can be placed more to where front projector owners will see it, please assist me in doing so.

b
 
#34 ·
I felt plenty of people could come up with the downsides of CRT, so why bother making it easy for them?
It's to present a unbiased comaprision. It's not making anything easier for someone that already knows.
The owners who are on this thread - well most of them anyway - are here because they also feel CRT delivers the best overall picture
But, how about ones that are not owners that are looking for both sides of the equation, a balanced argument?
I have no idea why you even spoke up here, this is not a thread dedicated to whatever you seem to be interested in, whatever that happens to be.
To repeat, so a balanced set of arguments are presented. So wuth your logic, only ones taking the positive side of a topic should speak out in a debate? As in one sided??
I didn't see anything in what you've written that would qualify as something you're actually interested in.
Sounds as you are taking this personally.
Would stirring up whatever sparks you can get going, on issues that can in any way, shape or form be turned into controversy, qualify?
Seems to answer my previous question.
 
#35 · (Edited)
You're right. I woke up in the wee hours here, at 5:30am, went over my answer in my head again, and decided to come back here to my laptop and make some corrections rather than let what I had said stand.

But you had already answered. Oh well, guess I'll have to let stand what I had said without correction. Your answer has merit, I had reacted a bit hotheadedly. My apologies.


I didn't start this thread to present a balanced view of CRT vs. other formats. I started it because there are hundreds if not thousands of CRT front projectors out there - front and rear - that have been retired to someone's basement or garage because their owners didn't know they could do HD and have bought other formats to take over. This is due to the one-sidedness of the retailers out there, who want nothing more than to relegate any and all CRT devices to the landfills. They are retailers, and selling whatever new stuff out there they can takes priority in their bottom line, however good those CRT devices already are, even those in place already with line doublers on them. Have they told the consumer that with one relatively inexpensive addition they don't have to worry about it? That they can have incredible looking HD on their current "outdated" equipment?

The retailers don't care. Many of the integrators don't care. They see a CRT set, they scrap it and ask questions later if at all. The usual words are, "We'll be glad to take it away for you at no charge." Then they make it disappear, and can't wait to do so fast enough. One high end Oakland shop won't even return my calls, when I recently left multiple messages about this issue, prompted by the owner whose CRT pj I had just saved. He was blown away with how I had just made his $20,000 Runco projector look on HD, which he had never seen on it before, and said I should call them and alert them, even gave me the name of the person to talk to. Due to my calibration on it and the addition of one small/relatively inexpensive transcoding device, it now looks the equal of anything else out there today. Better than a lot of them, and at a fraction of what buying new would have cost for the same sized screen.

Nada. According to the person who took my messages - over several days - they just scrap any and all CRTs without question, and sell them their new stuff. They obviously have no desire whatsoever to hear from me about this issue. Why should they? They can't make any $ that way.

That kind of thing rips my heart out, when I know how good CRT tech can look.


So my thread here. It's not meant to be a debate, it's an honest plea to owners of CRT tech everywhere to wake up and realize they don't have to go out and spend thousands of $ again on new projectors, front or rear, just to get HD.

Ask any retailer out there about this. See if they give you the unbiased story.

Sorry, yeah I was being biased, and yes, in favor of CRT. I felt the arena was already stacked against it, as a genre, and was trying to even the playing field.

Sorry for any taking of it personally, didn't mean to, it just rankles me that such unevenness is going on out there in the marketplace in the first place, that's all -

:yikes:

b
 
#36 · (Edited)
Of the main three choices for front projectors; CRT, LCD and D-ILA, I haven't seen much mentioned ob D-ILA. I have seen a couple of smaller LCD projectors that were terrible. The pixel structure was more obvious than those pesky scan lines.

I never had any real hands on experience with front projectors other than viewing them in stores (uck) and on home (not so uck, but not great). I will be the first to admit, I really don't like the concept as I don't like going to movie theaters either. Big is only better to a point and 'shows' are well past that point. I just prefer RPTV out of all the technologies, but the uneducated general public that doesn't have a clue, seems to think 'thin' is better, mostly women that don't like large cabinets. :explode:

I had a Hitachi 48" CRT RPTV for (I believe) 17 years and it was trouble free (other than convergence once a year). I also had a Mits one piece front projection unit (I guess that qualifies me for owning a front projector) that had a mirror that opened up from the front. Convergence was terrible. So bad I had to remove the rear cover (and leave it off which I didn't like since the necks of the tubs extended past the wooden cabinet) to allow cooling so the convergence would stay as adjusted. If I replaced the cover, in 10 minutes the alignment was way off. There was no way I could adjust the set with the cover off. Luckily, there are no kids. :)
 
#39 ·
I know it might have caused some additional noise, but perhaps a fan woulda helped. Or 2 fans - one in, one out. The ceiling pjs had extensive fanning, I believe the G90 uses 6 fans altogether.

10 years ago I cleaned, calibrated and set up a friend's 50" Sears fold-out-the-mirror unit, which like your Hit reflects onto a curved screen, and she's still using it. All her relatives tell her she should go flat panel, but she's undismayed. She likes it just the way it is.


b
 
#43 · (Edited)
Triple gun CRT delivers some of the best HD available

If that "older" CRT triple gun ceiling projector that you have retired because HD came along is capable of interpreting line doubling, you can bet that it does HD too, and flawlessly. Which will deliver pix from it that you never thought would have been possible, back when you bought it. Far better than any line doubler/tripler/quadrupler you may have had on it so far. If you retired it because it just didn't deliver what you see out there in the showrooms now, you're in for a treat! If it has never had HD on it, get ready to be blown away with high resolution registration you've never before seen on it. They didn't have HD to play on it back then, and thanks to Faroudja and a couple of others, high res was still possible. But now we have HD, which blows everything you could get ahold of back then out of the water. Including (God love him, so glad Eves was there for us!) Faroudja.

Contact me directly if you want to save thousands of $ over buying new and have the stealth grade and ageless CRT projector you already own calibrated. With HD on it you won't want anything else, including most of what's out there today. Your CRT front projector, which may never have had anything but line doubled, tripled or quadrupled content on it so far, is eminently capable of today's stealth grade HD, which - once your pj has been dialed in for it - looks far better than any line manipulation ever did.


If you want to see what triple gun CRT pjs are really capable of, go to this thread, where screenshots of them are all over the place -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900831

If you have a CRT RPTV you are thinking about retiring, please see this thread, which says you don't have to. Nor want to, once you find out what's really true!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922

Mr Bob
 
#44 ·
I have never run into a set that drifted that much that could not be fixed so that the convergence was stable, at least after warm-up. Most of these problems relate to improper setup and overheating, improper heat sinking, or power supply problems. These experiences are just like the general experience with CRTs that most people have that are not very good. They are the result of dealers, techs, and users who don't understand how to calibrate, align, or repair the technology effectively. We were getting stunning images out of Advents with NTSC 35 years ago when they were set up properly. They had scan lines and chroma issues that were inherent in the technology of the time, but the projectors could be set up to far exceed the available source technology. Later sets that can do 1080p could look exceptional with the right skills applied.

Bob is relating his experience that many people have not had the benefit of and in that respect may not seem consistent with the mainstream. His point is that when you know the technology, there are benefits that most don't realize.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Re: Triple gun CRT delivers the best HD available

Bob,

You and I have a lot in common and I respect your experience and abilities, but I can't agree with your thread title. I started selling, designing, installing, and calibrating CRT projection systems before HDTV even became available. I'll grant that a well designed graphics grade CRT projector, with 8" tubes or better, can outperform many current digital projectors in certain regards with HD signals. When you started one of your similar linked threads at AVS, it was in 2006. Low and mid priced digital projectors have improved significantly in the interim, as has the video optical disc medium.

If I had to personally choose between a Sony G90 (or equivalent 9" CRT), and a JVC 990, Samsung SP-A900, or better 1080p digital unit, I would pick the fixed pixel projector. Many folks may not know that the Sony G90 originally sold for about $35k (when the dollar was worth more than today). The digital units I mentioned can be had for less than $10k. If I was advising a customer who already owned an 8" or 9" CRT front projector, there would be no hesitation in recommending that he keep it. That would only be the case if the tubes were still in good shape and they understood what it would cost for parts and services to upgrade for currently competitive HD performance.

Most of the residential CRT front projection systems I've seen in my area (installed by other companies) used screens that were too large, and/or never set up and calibrated properly. At this late stage, I would expect many such projectors to need the tubes replaced. Many of these poorly implemented systems have been over driving the tubes for years. Replacing the tubes results in the need for a completely new setup and calibration service for every scan rate and aspect ratio. All these parts and services are not cheap. Then you still don't have a new projector. Other things can go bad sooner or later.

Can you tell me what CRT projector can reproduce rec709 HD standard color specifications?

How many CRT projectors can really produce a 1920 x 1080p resolution image on a 16x9 screen?

What CRT projectors can produce at least 12 fL of screen brightness, on an eight foot wide, 16x9 aspect ratio, 1.3 gain screen, with a 100% white full field image, after calibration?

How noisy will such a projector be in a room sized for an eight foot wide screen?

How wide of a CinemaScope ratio, constant image height screen can such a projector be expected to fill, and still do 12 fL at 100% white?

In a CIH setup, how likely will there be uneven phosphor aging in the 4x3 and 16x9 areas of the CRT raster?

These are just some questions that come to my mind when considering the claim made by your thread title. Others may have additional questions. Would you please attempt to answer mine?

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
 
#48 ·
Re: Triple gun CRT delivers the best HD available

Bob,

You and I have a lot in common and I respect your experience and abilities, but I can't agree with your thread title. I started selling, designing, installing, and calibrating CRT projection systems before HDTV even became available. I'll grant that a well designed graphics grade CRT projector, with 8" tubes or better, can outperform many current digital projectors in certain regards with HD signals. When you started one of your similar linked threads at AVS, it was in 2006. Low and mid priced digital projectors have improved significantly in the interim, as has the video optical disc medium.

If I had to personally choose between a Sony G90 (or equivalent 9" CRT), and a JVC 990, Samsung SP-A900, or better 1080p digital unit, I would pick the fixed pixel projector. Many folks may not know that the Sony G90 originally sold for about $35k (when the dollar was worth more than today). The digital units I mentioned can be had for less than $10k. If I was advising a customer who already owned an 8" or 9" CRT front projector, there would be no hesitation in recommending that he keep it. That would only be the case if the tubes were still in good shape and they understood what it would cost for parts and services to upgrade for currently competitive HD performance.

Most of the residential CRT front projection systems I've seen in my area (installed by other companies) used screens that were too large, and/or never set up and calibrated properly. At this late stage, I would expect many such projectors to need the tubes replaced. Many of these poorly implemented systems have been over driving the tubes for years. Replacing the tubes results in the need for a completely new setup and calibration service for every scan rate and aspect ratio. All these parts and services are not cheap. Then you still don't have a new projector. Other things can go bad sooner or later.

Can you tell me what CRT projector can reproduce rec709 HD standard color specifications?

How many CRT projectors can really produce a 1920 x 1080p resolution image on a 16x9 screen?

What CRT projectors can produce at least 12 fL of screen brightness, on an eight foot wide, 16x9 aspect ratio, 1.3 gain screen, with a 100% white full field image, after calibration?

How noisy will such a projector be in a room sized for an eight foot wide screen?

How wide of a CinemaScope ratio, constant image height screen can such a projector be expected to fill, and still do 12 fL at 100% white?

In a CIH setup, how likely will there be uneven phosphor aging in the 4x3 and 16x9 areas of the CRT raster?

These are just some questions that come to my mind when considering the claim made by your thread title. Others may have additional questions. Would you please attempt to answer mine?

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
Nice to hear from you, Alan. I have read lots of your stuff, tho it's been years since we've crossed paths. I bow to your higher knowledge of such things, you have levels of involvement in this industry that I can only dream of. I am just a calibrator, trying to do the best by my big screen owners.

I have changed the title of my thread. Unfortunately it does not "take" automatically everywhere, so lots of the replies will continue to contain the original title, can't do anything about that.

Is the changed title satisfactory? Hopefully it says more carefully what I was trying to say, without continuing to be going overboard about it all, like I was...

b
 
#49 ·
I have pointed out to you before, Bob, that I think your claims are rather zealous. If you review this thread, much of it is taken up with others telling you the same and you waste a lot of time and effort defending your position. I have also pointed out many times that you have made a great contribution to the knowledge that many have about CRT based sets and how to get the most out of them. If you would stick to that kind of content, you would get less blow-back and I think more people would be interested in your threads.

I think Alan summed it up pretty well. Someone who has a well designed system with a properly calibrated CRT based unit has little reason to change unless the unit is aging out in terms of tube performance. In a new install, however, it is hard to justify CRT as a choice, other than for a hobbyist who might pick up a good unit very cheap who likes to tinker.

That said, there are still many CRT based units out there that we continue to service and calibrate that can look far better than most people realize. Focus on that and you will likely find a great deal of interest in your threads with little or no controversy. You have a lot to contribute and it saddens me to see your threads derailed because you're statements are over the top. We have a rather high level of reader here, and you are not likely to ge away with hyperbole without getting called on it.
 
#51 ·
I changed the title on the thread. When the threads were merged, this one was not the one changed. I think all of the posts that used the thread title for a subject have been populated with the change now.
 
#52 ·
No contest! I could not have said any of that any better, Alan, thank you.

The new title is "CRT triple gun projectors do some of the best HD available!"

I believe that states what I was trying to say without any absolutism on my part, which yes, the old title did contain.

Len -

I will try to abide by what you said, it makes total sense. I was not seeing much response to anything I had written here lately, and am glad to see you stating the numbers I was not seeing.

Alan -

Thanks for your insight, from long years in many fields in this industry. It is very valuable, and I hope lots of people are listening, out there.

:sn:

b
 
#53 ·
Much more appropriate title! Thanks for your perspectives on subjects you have devoted yourself to so intently. There's never enough beauty in our world and you have helped many enjoy more of it. Life should be enthusiastically savored. The motion imaging arts inspire and entertain many people in our often stressful culture. People who say, "It's just TV!" have a shallow appraisal of life and the human condition. Art for the common man is a very healthy and potentially elevating concept. As Joe Kane persists in saying, "It's all about the art."

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
 
#54 · (Edited)
You got it, Alan. We're all in this together...

:wave:

b

PS - for me it's my Star Trek transporter machine. The more lifelike and realistic and true to the original film the video rendition is, the more the suspension of disbelief is, and the more we get to become swept away from it all.

Maybe even to a galaxy far, far away...

:gulp:

Sometimes after a particularly effective suspension of disbelief session - er, I mean movie - I sit there with my jaw on the floor, panting, still feeling like I was there, in the flesh...
 
#58 · (Edited)
CRT RPTVs were never designed to go any higher than 1080i. The R&D never continued long enough for them to do 1080p, tho that could have been the case if that genre had continued on. Unfortunately that was not to happen.

Ceiling projectors, OTOH, were designed for 1080p and beyond, long before HD had even gone mainstream. So they can do 1080p standing on their heads.

Since HDMI is a digital tranmission and not analog, the HD Fury series is still required in order to get the HD 1080p signal to the ceiling triple gun, which is inherently an analog device. For this mode the RGBHV option of the Fury should be used.

For CRT RPTVs, the self-contained triple gun versions, very few were designed for RGB, most were designed for component only for the highest scanrate ever designed for them, 1080i. So the Fury should be set for outputting component in that case, unless you have one of the few models designed with RGBHV, in which case you can switch the Fury to that modality.


1080i has some advantages over 1080p in that virtually all broadcast transmitted HD is 1080i. But all fixed pixel displays these days bought new are 1080p. Therefore a transcoding process has to be used to play 1080i material on 1080p displays. Some brands do a great job of this, others not so great.

Case in point, digital 1080p displays often have stuttered movement during panning at regular digital refresh rates, like 60Hz and 120 Hz. At 240 Hz you finally get to break mostly free of this, but 240 Hz rated machines are more expensive than 120 Hz and 60 Hz rated machines.

The advantage of sticking to CRT RPTV is that no transcoding has to take place, it plays 1080i just fine. No stuttered movement, and no worries about how high the refresh rate is. Just super smooth sailing.


Again, ceiling projectors don't need to worry about it, they do 1080p just fine, have none of the worries of CRT RPTVs. This thread was not about CRT RPTV. It was about targeting those owners who have CRT ceiling pjs and don't realize the gold mine they are sitting on. Ceiling pjs do HD just fine, at the highest of HD scanrates available to the consumer - 1080p. I just couldn't sit by and continue to watch perfectly good ceiling pjs being torn down from the ceiling and dumped by the wayside for the newer technologies when they were eminently capable of 1080p without even breaking a sweat. This is happening as we speak, every day. Some installation entities won't even talk to me because whenever they encounter a triple gun CRT ceiling pj they simply "tear it out" without blinking and without ever once looking back. They don't want to hear from someone capable of saving that "old" equipment, they want it out of the way so they can do their retailer role.

My pleas to keep them going fall on deaf ears when the new digital replacement projectors will make those installation entities uncounted additional thousands of dollars. Only when an owner has already shelled out his many thousands way back then - wanting a permanent display that will stand the test of time - and does not want to necessarily shell out another many thousands all over again, do I get the call to save those projectors.

Those "older" CRT projectors do stand the test of time. That's all...



b
 
#56 · (Edited)
A device called HDFury will convert HDMI at 1080p for the few analog displays that can handle such a scan rate. The vast majority of CRT RPTVs were never built well enough to display 720p. They only had the quality of circuitry to display most of a 1920 x 1080i signal (closer to 1080 x 1400i at best). An excellent explanation of this disappointing reality in consumer HDTVs of the day can be found in an article by Joe Kane from a back issue (issue 68) of 'Widescreen Review,' titled: 'HDTV By The Numbers.'

Color was another area CRTs were limited. Few could match SMPTE C, let alone the full rec709 HD specs. RPTVs come with their own inescapable problems due to the type of screen construction used. These are just some of the deficiencies found in consumer triple tube CRT displays.
 
#61 ·
I've always gone back and forth on weather I want a CRT or LCD/DLP projector. My biggest thing is I'm not really sure I can get a CRT that can fully resolve 1080p for 2k or less like I can with LCD/DLP. Then there's the countless hours of setup and tweaking. I think I remember that getting them setup professionally costs a lot more as well, not to mention there are probably a dwindling number of ISF calibrators that deal with CRT sets.
 
#63 ·
Ohio, near Youngstown about an hour or so from Cleveland.

I talked to Curt Palme and he says the Marquee 8500 would be a good candidate at my budget. I just need to find out what the throw distance is needed to get a 100-110" 2.37:1 screen. I have to to see if I can make one fit in my room here. Obviously when we buy a house and I build a dedicated room it'd be easy to fit. For now I'm building a make shift theater.

Curt said it wouldn't take much setup because he sets the tubes up before he ships them.
 
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