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28K views 158 replies 9 participants last post by  chrapladm 
#1 ·
I have been wanting a sub that will reach extremely deep and yet not be a massive cabinet. I know with a sub that is small I will need alot of power so I started to search for many many different designs and after chatting with Bossabass on the AVS forum I decided to try and build a sonotube sub.

I wanted to build a cylinder sub anyways because when making router cuts they look professional as opposed to my not so good cutting techniques.

I would have posted this on both forums but there is just to much arguing going on about ported/sealed and what drivers to use so I just posted it hear for a few others to see my progress instead of randomly posting pics on others threads.

So I will be using a sonotube that is 20" wide internally. My amp will be a Crest Pro7200 bridged to 8 ohms. now I might get a Marathon 5050 here shortly to replace the Crest but for now this is the poweramp I have for now.

I will be using a Marchand Electronics WM8 L/T.
http://www.marchandelec.com/wm8.html

And for the drivers I am using Fi car audio 15" SSD with the BP option for cooling. I will have both subs in one sonotube. One will be upfiring and one downfiring to help cancel vibrations

Now I dont want to offend anyone(Bossa) in building this sub because I think he has made an awesome sub. I hope he only is happy that I would want to copy such a design.

I will be using double 18mm for the end cap and single 18mm for the bottom plate. I will be using also a 25mm dowel cut to around 2" for the legs. I will also be using a screen material to go around the top ring next to the driver for finger protecting and other small items kids want to place on the woofer.

The internal dimensions is 20.5" tall x 20" diameter. Now I have alot of other stuff I should be doing in my house besides building a sub so this is slowly coming along.(Finish kitchen, tile the kitchen, lay new flooring throughout the house)

After all that they have cut my hours at work to almost nothing so I had to do something to cheer me up.

So here are some pics of the sub so far.





Now the driver is not mounted but I wanted to make sure the driver fit because I had not got them out since I wasn't supposed to be building the sub.

The ring is where I will add the legs on top of. The screen material I will then wrap around the ring.

Now when I get the screen cut to length, the legs glued on and the bottom completely done I will be ordering an acrylic top plate to go on the top. Then I can watch the driver bounce :bigsmile:

And hopefully Moonfly will be happy to see another dual opposed sealed sub being built. LOL
 
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#55 ·
Well the Ravens are what I was basing my ideas off of.:D

Well that sucks that the Machs are out of the question.:( The Tempest 15's are the same price as the Machs but that would only be a single 15 vs the Mach 18.:(

So I guess I will have to just spend another $100 and have the dual MFW 15's. I am not sure I could go with a box as big as 6cuft for the pair to fit in though. I would have to take a look at the B&C 15 and see what type of room it will need to perform from 50hz-600hz. I am sure not to small but I will just need to make sure first.

????
 
#56 ·
Ok Graham I need help.

Mach 5 audio 18
or
Tempest 15

Both are the same price but you said the 18 doesn't like sealed. I saw someone else build one and the builder said Mach 5 suggested 5cuft sealed for box size. Now what is bad about the Mach 18" in a sealed cab of 5 cuft?

The tempest is only a 15" but its the same cost. So I didn't know if the Tempest had any chance what so ever against the 18".

AND did MikeP say why or anything?

And now since looking at the Sd I can see that a pair of 15" equal more than a single 18" and bigger than most of the 21"s. So I dont think there will be a better option than a pair of dual 15's and I guess the MFW's just cant be beat for the money.

Mfw's are only 225 watts rms so does one have to very careful at using an L/T on them also?

I think 10hz will have to be goal with those subs but I will have to look at a sim I guess.
 
#57 ·
And now since looking at the Sd I can see that a pair of 15" equal more than a single 18" and bigger than most of the 21"s. So I dont think there will be a better option than a pair of dual 15's and I guess the MFW's just cant be beat for the money.
Dont forget Sd is only half the equation. You need to factor in xmax to work out Vd to truly compare drivers.
 
#58 ·
Well this is sort of going away from the subs but I was trying to think of a way to make a speaker that could replace my SLA's and house a sub or two in the same cabinet.

Now as of now my plan was to make a clone of a Def Tech BP3000TL. It has four 6'5's two 1" tweeters and one 18" sub woofer.

Now I thought I could just add my speakers and build one but finding an 18" sub that has a shallow depth is very hard to find. I found one that had a 7.5" depth but Ricci said it would not be a good sealed sub box with L/T for anything below 30hz. SO that option is out.

So as of now most are saying to just make a Ewave and have a sub underneath it. Now I know thats probably the best option for SQ but I really am wondering how much would I sacrifice on SQ by using another mini Ewave design by Zilch in comparison to the bigger ones?

Zilch recommended the 6" JBL WG and 6.5" JBL driver. Now I would just use the Selenium 220ti for now until I could save up for the DE250. The other Ewave is the QSC152 WG and a 3012LF 12". now the objective would be to have a great 50-200hz response along with overall SQ.

That seems to be the tough one for now. I have searched many drivers for too long last night and some other nights when I was looking at doing another project.

I could always by the Exodus Tempest or the Shiva but they are both about $300 but I know they would work for sealed and L/T'd. BUT they are quite deep. Ricci mentioned also the Dayton HF 12" driver. That looks like a good choice also but am I stupid for wanting two 6.5's or 8"s instead of a single 12" or 15" for midbass?



Thats the two designs compared just using a quick sensitivity chart from the late Z. The 8" chart is only using one 8" as I would use two.

PLUS if I did go with the 8" I could use a 10" wide baffle and house almost any driver I want but since I seem not be comparing apple with apples I will have to ask.

two MFWs
or
one Exodus Tempest

The shiva would fit better but they are the same price as the tempest roughly.
 
#59 ·
Ok well we know how decisive I am. :)

SO I have made a choice between four drivers as of now. I am not really worried about price for now because I actually have a new job and this build will be taken very slowly. But here are the four woofer choices.
Eminence Lab15
Exodus Shiva X2 (two of them)
Ciare 15SW
Beyma 18SW1600ND
These will be powered with one Behringer EPQ/X 2000
 
#60 ·
My 10 second response.... :)

Eminence Lab15 has an xmax of 12. A Fs of 28. It's a pro-audio driver.
I think that you'd do well with 2 Shivas. Fs of 21 and Xmax of 26mm.

Modeled, the Shiva should get louder, lower.

The Ciare and Beyma are also pro audio. The Ciare has a Fs of 38. They're just not meant for low 20-30hz content.

I built a 25hz tune enclosure with pro-audio sub drivers, with an Fs of 29, but the 100 db sensitivity made up for the high tuning. The Lab 15 is not a sensitive driver (at 88 db). Even the Ciare is only 91 db.

The Mach 5 15" or 18" drivers or Exodus Shivas will work out better.

Edit: Just saw you didn't want ported. So, I'd recommend Shiva or Tempest drivers.
Edit again: I can't read this morning. I'm still waking up. Are you still looking for a driver for a subwoofer? or for another speaker build project?
 
#61 ·
Subwoofer is what I am looking at . They will be sealed and the Tempest is to deep. The Shivas were another thought after gathering prices.

Cant help but want that Beyma.:D That thing is a beast.

But that being said I also thought about the shivas because they are already here and easy to buy and so is the Beyma. So it was always sort of down between two subs. The Lab 15 and the Shiva's. But then I found the Beyma and was thinking why not!!! :)

Shiva would be a pair and dual opposed in a single 2.5cuft cabinet. SO because of the Beyma's sensitivity and size is also why I was considering. PLUS the original design had an 18" and I thought ....again......why not.

SO the Mach 18 was sort of out of the pic because of wanting a sealed design and graham stating that they dont like it very well. The mounting depth of the 18 is way to big also. Not sure about the SDX mounting depth though.
 
#63 ·
I here ya. The B&C 21" driver specs it is a 30hz and higher driver also but I know Riccia has stated before he believes that woofer would be a good speaker for a sealed sub and L/T. So I just found a driver that is comprable to that one but in a 18".

Sorry if this is kicking the mule. It is really my mind just really wanting to have the Beyma.

Here is the Link to the 21"
http://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-21SW152-1.htm

Now I wont be getting one of those just maybe the Beyma.

Anyways low frequency aside what do you think the lowest reachable frequency could be with the Beyma in 2.5cuft sealed?

That probably should have been my original question. Sorry dont want it to sound like I am not listening to your advice.:)
 
#64 ·
Graham are you using just a cable connector adapter to run your LFE rca to your Behringer amp or whatever amp you have?

I just have a LFE rca cable with a 1/4 jack connector on the end of mine to go to my amp. I didn't know if there was a better way or what so I figured I best ask?

I might just get a Behringer device of some sort because I will be adding more subs and wont know how I am going to be able to adjust them.

I was thinking of just using a device where I can turn down the two amps individually. I know I could use the signal knobs but how else can I do it?

The reason I ask is because after a few dilemmas I have decided on just building an Ewave and adding two more 18's. They will just be 20" cubes and have the corresponding L/R Ewave sit on top of them.

I will just be using the Mach Audio new 18's when they come out. They are just to good to pass up for those on a budget. I just want to be able to adjust the 18's so they can work cohesively with the Fi sealed sono's. I have to wait on the new SSD 15's so I can then get rid of the THT. BUT what do I do with the thing. Will it do very well outside?

The THT would be laying on its side and the back would be the only thing against the wall. The mouth would be aimed at nothing because there isn't any solid walls.:crying:

Thanks.
 
#67 ·
Regarding the sealed Mach 5 18's, I'm going by what has been stated by the owners. There are a couple of IXL-18 sealed builds where the owners stated the low end output was disappointing for HT (maybe expectations were too high?). I'm just passing on the information, modeling the IXL-18 against your FI setup should show what the difference would be.
 
#69 ·
I would have the pair of sealed sono's but Figured I could add just two more small boxes.

Now the Machs would be in 20-22" sealed cubes. The drivers are only $320. The Fi stuff is alot more. SO that is about the max on subs I was willing to go and after 4x15 and 2x18's thats all I figured I could afford and fit in my room. I know I needed the extra drivers for the 10hz area so I figured I should add the 18's. Being the best deal around here it seemed the logical idea. The Exodus Tempest was the same price but the Mach performed better down low.(beneath 25hz)

SO that was the thinking.
 
#73 ·
Not sure on the modeling?

I just know that the cabinet is 94L net give or take a liter. I actually have it wired for 8 ohm right now. I will be getting another amp in the next dew weeks. Then after getting the new amp I will start on the other sub. I will just be getting a Marathon 5050 to power both the subs in 4ohm bridged.

How is the sub 1.1 is that with one sub?

Anyways the Marathon will power Fi subs(4x15's) so 5000 watts would be perfect.
 
#75 ·
I figured the IXL's would help. Can you add a L/T to the Fi subs?

Anyways I would hope that in the end 4 of the Fi subs and two of the IXL's would be enough for the 10hz area. I look forward to seeing the new IXL also.

ANd is that graph with two 15's verse the one 18?

WOW if it is. I didn't know the 18 would dominate the Fi so much without the L/T. But either way.
 
#77 ·
SO am I to guestimate that even with two 18's and four 15's I still wouldn't hit 110db at 10hz?

I know the 15s dont have the L/T on them but wouldn't we only gain a max 6-9 dbs on top of what the 18's in the graph display?
 
#80 ·
Yes but the MFWs are around 225 each to my door. Thats why the 18.2's looked so good. BUT the most I can afford will be two of the 18.2's. I think that will be plenty.

SUre I wont have insane levels but my single sonosub right now is very fun and they are barely pushing. I just have to get some mains that can pound and keep up.

SO with the pair I really need to invest in some new mains.

PLUS the IXL new subs when they arrive will only be used during movies. During music playback I will be fine without them.

After this next few upgrades I really need to get a projector.
 
#81 ·
Mike or Graham or anyone else is there a better design for the Mach 18.2's for 10hz or so?

I would only have the subs on if I was listening to movies with all the subs or by them selves. Is 10 tuning a bad idea?

If I did that I would probably do a 24" cube with sealed and 10hz or something slot port. I would do the multi port like you graham but for the most part I would just be needing the lows for movies and the rest of the time I think sealed would be just fine with me.

I know I could eq the sealed to get the low hz but I was thinking maybe a port would be better.:huh:
 
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