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ElitePRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD Discussion Thread

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#1 ·
The Elite PRP-605XFD and PRO-70X5FD.

Intelligent Variable Contrast
RGBY+Y Pixel Color Technology
Precision Color Plus Pixel Technology
Gen-Ten LCD / UV2A Brightness
FluidMotion Smoothness
Full Array LED Backlighting
Local LED Dimming

Kevin Miller's Review.
"The PRO-60X5FD, a full array LED backlit LCD panel with Local Dimming Technology, produces superior blacks to the vaunted reference Pioneer Elite panels, and is definitely one of the best performing most color accurate flat panel displays available today."

This is my 1st post so I'm unable to list any URL's but I just thought I'd post a few pointers to get the conversation going. If you find any new news or professional reviews on this display please post it here. Additionally if you own the Elite or plan on getting one I'd love to here what you have to say, thanks.


CNET Settings:

Below you'll find the settings we found best for viewing the Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD in a dim room via the HDMI input at 1080p/24 resolution. Your settings may vary depending on source, room conditions, and personal preference. Check out the Picture settings and calibration FAQ for more information.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9996461-1.html

--Picture Settings menu

AV MODE: MOVIE THX
Intelligent Variable Contrast: Local Dimming On
OPC: Off
Backlight: +1
Contrast: +32
Brightness: +1
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

--Advanced sub-menu

C.M.S. -Hue
R: 0
Y: +3
G: +4
C: +2
B: -3
M: +3

C.M.S. -Saturation
R: +3
Y: -2
G: -1
C: +1
B: +1
M: 0

C.M.S. -Value
R: +2
Y: +2
G: 0
C: -12
B: +3
M: -2

Color Temp sub-menu:
Color Temp: Low [grayed out when 10 Point is "On]

[10 Point Setting Off]
R Gain (LO): +1
G Gain (LO): -5
B Gain (LO): -3
R Gain (HI): +2
G Gain (HI): -4
B Gain (HI): -4

[10 Point Setting On]
Position +1: R Gain +2, G Gain 0, B Gain 0
Position +2: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -3
Position +3: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
Position +4: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -2
Position +5: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -4
Position +6: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -5
Position +7: R Gain -2, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
Position +8: R Gain -1, G Gain -6, B Gain -6
Position +9: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain +5
Position +10: R Gain 0, G Gain 0, B Gain -1

Motion Enhancement: 120Hz Low
Quad Pixel Plus: Off
Active Contrast: Off
Gamma Adjustment: 0
Film Mode: Off
Digital Noise Reduction: Off
Monochrome: Off
Range of OPC: [any]
 
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#1,613 ·
AZguy, ^^ thanks!, Glad you are enjoying the world's best TV.

-Robert
 
#1,614 ·
Some very good news! :sn:


Hi All,

I saw a question directed to me regarding the ISF modes from the Shootout. Actually I am now confinced that Robert's sample was defective after calibrating 6 Elites in the last two weeks. ISF modes are turning out to be the best in terms of picture accuracy over all of the other modes. No issues!
 
#1,616 ·
Yea I noted about his opinion a couple weeks ago here and avs.. Hopefully it's true for everyone's sake
 
#1,628 ·
DJG said:
Very comforting, Ken ... I think I can hear the crowd gathering outside for a hanging :paddle: ... in DTS 7.1 HD Master :D.
Seriously though, the most logical question to ask is have you used D6500 on prior displays and, if so, how did you like it then? It's not unusual for people to have a negative reaction to 6500 if they haven't lived with it for awhile.

Conversely, once you've acclimated, 7500 and higher looks too blue.
 
#1,630 ·
Ken, I'm a big fan of adaptation :). I do give it time, and it's as you say. With the straight CNET settings, Temp = Low works for me, Med-Low is a bit too cool. At one time I would have prefered the Med-Low or even the Medium, but I have adapted to the warmer target. But in my calibrations the results are noticeably warmer / yellower that the straight CNET settings. The blue in the Oppo logo when it's stopped, and the new DirecTV HD GUI look significantly different.

I find it interesting that it's the blue that seems most affected, which is complementary to the yellow pixels :ponder: ... Could it be CalMAN or the meters are not dealing with them properly? I'm sure the calibrators are using better equipment / software, which maybe aren't phased by the yellow pixels?

CalMAN explicitly supports the Elite, but I believe that's basically accessing the controls (which I prefer to do with ControlCal), not necessarily taking the yellow pixel into account as there is nothing extra in the GUI to support that explicitly.

Who knows :). Bottom line, after much adventuring which I've enjoyed, I have an amazing picture to look at, visibly more so than the CNET settings which provided a great pic to start with. And the adventuring continues ...
 
#1,633 ·
The yellow pixel CAN be an issue, depending on how they are using it. The relation between gray scale and color processing can be complex, and they are adding another variable. If you are measuring gray scale by activating the primaries only, then when using color add the yellow pixel based upon color decoding, the luminance of the yellow pixel is a significant variable. How the colors are mapped in their decoder can play a very complex role. It is not just a matter of oversaturating yellow.
 
#1,637 ·
I realize that...But Dont tell me how it CAN affect the accuracy of the TV...Please tell me how it does affect the accuracy of the best TV money can buy...maybe the competition should have the yellow subpixel...yes color processing is the major player here...my point is that Plasma and Crt use RGB technology...backlight doesnt come into play and that the picture quality of the Elite with the yellow subpixel are amazing...to me the adding the yellow subpixel gives the tv more options deal with variable backlight intensities and color temp options.
 
#1,635 ·
I've had my Elite for 9 days now. Yesterday I played around with the QPP (going back and forth, taking it in and out) and for the life of me, I see no discernible difference. Is it because my set is still going through a "break in" period or is the effect very subtle...or is it just me? Lol
 
#1,636 ·
Rukk said:
I've had my Elite for 9 days now. Yesterday I played around with the QPP (going back and forth, taking it in and out) and for the life of me, I see no discernible difference. Is it because my set is still going through a "break in" period or is the effect very subtle...or is it just me? Lol
Just noticed you and I got our sets the same day! Guess we are both going thru this break in process.... Btw, I love this TV!
 
#1,649 ·
Well, they do make it work rather well, but just for the record, I have never been convinced of the inherent value of the yellow pixel. IMO, it is simply a marketing tool to distinguish Sharp from other vendors.
 
#1,650 ·
I don't want to start an argument, because I think we mostly agree, but I think it's premature to conclude they make it work rather well.

I don't think it's an accident that they have trouble with cyan, which is green plus blue. If what I said in my previous diatribe about using the yellow sub-pixel is true, then cyan is exactly the color I'd expect them to get wrong. And their failure to come up with a patch may demonstrate that it's impossible to correctly utilize a yellow sub-pixel given only an RGB input. Only time will tell....
 
#1,651 ·
Why would you expect cyan to be wrong because of the yellow pixel? It makes no more sense than saying that "magenta is exactly the color you'd expect them to get wrong". :huh: I thought you were doing well right up until then.
 
#1,654 ·
Well, technically I'm not saying I expect cyan to be wrong because of the yellow sub-pixel, I'm saying I expect it to be wrong because of the modifications you have to make in an attempt to get an accurate picture from an RGB signal in the presence of a yellow sub-pixel. It's because of the response curves of the cones in the human eye. There's considerable overlap in the response curves of the green cone and the blue cone. So green light has a certain amount of stimulus to the blue cone built in. rec.709 takes that into account.

Look at the graphic at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/colcon.html. Pay attention to which cones different colors of light stimulate. Red light stimulates the red and green cones but really not the blue cones. Green light stimulates the green cones, the red cones, and to a lesser extent the blue cones as well. Blue light stimulates blue and green cones and to a lesser extent the red cones.

So when you move luminance from the red sub-pixel to the yellow sub-pixel, the green and red cones are still being stimulated but the blue cone isn't really affected because neither red nor yellow light really affects it. That's why I wouldn't expect magenta to be affected. Both red and yellow light stimulate the red cone, and any stimulus to the blue cone to make magenta has to come independently from the blue sub-pixel in either case.

But that's not the true when you move luminance from the green sub-pixel to the yellow sub-pixel. Green light provides a stimulus to the blue cone that yellow light does not. To prevent a color shift you have to make up for the lost stimulus to the blue cone by increasing the output from the blue sub-pixel. But there is also an overlap in the response curves of the green cone with blue light. So brightening the blue sub-pixel to make up for the stimulus lost by decreasing the luminance of the green sub-pixel is going to have a side effect of increasing the stimulus to the green cone which is exactly what you don't want.

But it's the overlap in response curves between the green and blue cones that makes me say cyan is where I would expect the problem to be.
 
#1,660 ·
But you see, yellow light isn't a combination of red and green light. Yellow light has a wavelength of 560 to 590 nm. Green light has a wavelength of 490 to 560 nm, and red light has a wavelength of 635 to 700 nm. Mixing wavelengths of light together doesn't change the frequencies of the light that was mixed together. If I combined green and red light together it would look like yellow to my eye but a prism would split it back into green and red. If I used a yellow filter to create yellow light it would also look like yellow to my eye, but it would pass through the prism and come out as yellow.

We can use a combination of green and red light to simulate yellow because light in the yellow frequency range stimulates both the red and green cones. But when I do that simulation I cannot simulate saturated yellow. The reason I cannot simulate saturated yellow is that the green light I'm using in my simulation also stimulates the blue cone. That's the reason for the shape of the CIE triangle.

A true yellow sub-pixel as is present in the Elite does not have that constraint. Since it's generating light in the actual yellow frequency range it can stimulate the green and red cones without stimulating the blue cone as much as we're forced to do with our green/red simulation. We can see that this is happening because the uncorrected yellow of the Elite lies outside the CIE gamut. To desaturate yellow they have to add in blue from the blue sub-pixel.
 
#1,661 ·
But you see, yellow light isn't a combination of red and green light. Yellow light has a wavelength of 560 to 590 nm. Green light has a wavelength of 490 to 560 nm, and red light has a wavelength of 635 to 700 nm. Mixing wavelengths of light together doesn't change the frequencies of the light that was mixed together. If I combined green and red light together it would look like yellow to my eye but a prism would split it back into green and red.
Yes, for the purposes here in this particular forum, yellow light is a combination of red and green light. The Elite may have a slight variation due to the addition of the yellow pixel but that doesn't change the fact that in display technology, yellow is created from red and green.

If I used a yellow filter to create yellow light it would also look like yellow to my eye, but it would pass through the prism and come out as yellow.
No. Yellow light passing through a prism would come out as green and red. Unless you are using a pure single wavelength yellow. And I don't think the Sharp Elite display possesses that technology - ie laser.

This thread is getting a bit off topic. All of this from an small error in an algorithm? :scratch:
 
#1,662 ·
Correct. The light starts as the spectrum of the backlight and is filtered. To get yellow, the blue end of the spectrum is blocked. When we see yellow light it is because there is red and green light and an absence of blue.
 
#1,669 ·
Hi Robert, it's been so quiet lately any new news to report yet?
 
#1,670 ·
Radtech51 said:
Hi Robert, it's been so quiet lately any new news to report yet?
Well since sharp just released prices for their upcoming TV's, my guess is that they are looking ahead, and won't be focusing on these current issues much longer, especially the pulsing issue.especially since there are many owners who are just ok with it as they use thx mode, which either eliminates it, or hides to some degree depending on who's looking. Even tho, I'm in the camp that *can* deal with it, I still called and voiced my complaint, as everyone should to try to push then to do something about it. I just don't think Sharp is all that concerned with this particular issue. At least that's the feeling I get when I call about it. Don't get me wrong, I've talked with two very polite, and respectful customer care reps, but even they denied knowing about this issue.
 
#1,671 ·
Just because Sharp released prices doesn't mean they stop correcting previous products. For example, my Sony BDP-S1, the original Bluray player has gotten updates this past year. Meanwhile, the player is 5 years old. And because there's an issue on a TV, doesn't mean they hold off on future products till this is fixed. They have a dedicated team of engineers just on the Elite. I'm not concerned. As far as the reps you're talking to, you have to talk to someone above their level. The supervisors and managers are in the know.
 
#1,672 ·
Correct ^^ again as usual Mike.

Regarding the latest FW update, manufacturers never disclose everything new FW does, but the main fix is an issue that would cause the set to unnecessarily shut down and cause the power light to flash continuously.

-Robert
 
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