Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

My Glidden Diamond 450 (White) Screen

33K views 124 replies 12 participants last post by  smokarz 
#1 · (Edited)
Well, it's finally time to paint my screen white. Going on my failed efforts to design a new screen paint, I'll be using Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White in a velvet matte sheen. I'll be editing this post soon to add color data from previous threads/posts. After I'm done I'll do new subjective and objective analysis.

My current screen is Silver Fire HG V2 @ 138" diagonal. My 8700UB just doesn't have the power to light it up properly in THX mode.

Thanks to Harp for moving posts on another thread here!


Here's the original post I did on testing the Glidden:

Here's some data from some testing I did tonight.

I did all the maximum cd/m2 tests without touching the meter between materials. I then lowered the meter aproximetely 25 or 30 degrees for another cd/m2 reading and ran all the materials through again, also without touching the meter between readings. I used an Eye1 Pro and HCFR. I used BabelColor CTA and the Eye1 Pro for the color data.

The first number is cd/m2 with the sensor adjusted for maximum reading. The second number is cd/m2 with the meter lowered about 25 - 30 degrees. the third fourth and fifth numbers are the RGB values. The last number is deltaE from perfect neutral. A deltaE of less than 1.0 is considered perfect. Less than 3.0 is considered to be so close as to be indistinguishable from neutral by the human eye, at least according to what I've read.

I've included readings from my SF HG screen for reference. Check this thread: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...esting/51685-titanium-sintra-development.html and you can see the hotspotting on that screen. Then note the variance between cd/m2 high and low numbers. I've included some data from some Cream & Suger paint that I have. Please note that we have determined that the sample I have is a first version, and not representative of C&S in general. There were most certainly some issues either with the base or the silver paint. But you can see how it's possible to have ZERO variance in cd/m2 for normal viewing angles. The cost, of course, is low gain.

Titanium Sintra:
37.5 32.2 246,246,242 2.36

Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White:
36.35 31.6 245,246,243 1.43

behr 1850 UPW:
35.3 32.05 249,249,246 1.95

Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White:
31.25 29.5 240,241,236 2.58

Carrada Brilliant White 1.4 Gain:
36.1 30.8 242,242,236 3.22

C&S:
22.6 22.5

SF HG:
33.1 22.5

One note: This really opened my eyes. Comparing the Behr and the Glidden visually, I would have said the Behr is slightly brighter. The slight color variance can fool the eye; it really truly takes instrumentation to tell the tale.

Visually, I can detect absolutely no hotspotting with the Glidden, Behr, or SW. The Carrada sample is too small for me to really tell. The Titanium Sintra is possibly warm in the center. I don't believe a full screen would show a hot spot, but I guess it's possible. I just don't have the experience to tell for certain.

I wanted the Titanium Sintra to be the clear winner, but I can't say that it is right now. I think the extra 3% brightness it has over the second brightest paint--the Glidden--is worth investigating. (At least for me.) But it isn't there yet. The Glidden is only 3% dimmer, and is off the shelf and easy to apply.

Personally, I think the Glidden and the Behr are both better choices than the Carrada BW sample I have. Similar gain characteristics and more color neutral. I'd give a slight nod to the Glidden over the Behr, and I'd rate the Sherwin Williams a distant number four. Distant at least when you consider how close the top three are.

So, here are my ratings:
#1 Gliddon Diamond 450, Titanium White, Velvet Matte
#2 Behr UPW 1850, Interior Flat Enamel
#3 Carrada Brilliant White 1.4 Gain Manufactured screen.
#4 Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White

Titanium Sintra: Not ready for release.

BTW: I did do reflectance curves of all the white paints, they are all equally good with the Behr being the brightest white, N9.78. I'm just too lazy to post the graphs. :D :blush:
BTW, I started a thread for the review of the Epson "Light Power Edition" filter for the 5010/5020 6010/6020 here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...#axzz2DhAgyp8t
 
#2 · (Edited)
I painted over silver fire. I went with harpmaker and mechman's recommendation to sand the SF a lot before using a primer and then finally a flat gray paint. My results are awesome, I don't notice any loss in brightness but I get better contrast, no hotspotting, no sparklies, etc.

Don't let anyone tell you that you can't use a roller, I did and it looks crystal clear.
Hey there! Carp, what primer did you use? I'm painting my SF screen right now. I sanded the stuffing out of it, cleaned it with rubbing alcohol, and let it dry for a couple of hours. Then I rolled on the first coat of Kilz Premium. Wow, it doesn't look so good. I'm thinking one more coat, then wet sanding it. Trust me, it's going to need sanding. I'm hoping it's going to work at all. It's almost fish eyeing, but not quite. I'm almost thinking just sand this coat then switch primers...

I really don't want to hang a new sheet of Sintra. It's a pain to get home, and I have styrofoam insulation bonded to the back. It looks like I may have too though. :(
 
#22 ·
Re: Silver Fire

Hey there! Carp, what primer did you use? I'm painting my SF screen right now. I sanded the stuffing out of it, cleaned it with rubbing alcohol, and let it dry for a couple of hours. Then I rolled on the first coat of Kilz Premium. Wow, it doesn't look so good. I'm thinking one more coat, then wet sanding it. Trust me, it's going to need sanding. I'm hoping it's going to work at all. It's almost fish eyeing, but not quite. I'm almost thinking just sand this coat then switch primers...
I hope that rubbing alcohol wasn't the type that is tinted green and has wintergreen fragrance added. Also some "rubbing" alcohol has oil in it to lubricate the skin while rubbing. I suspect all three of these added ingredients can mess with a painted finish if left on the wall/substrate before priming. I suspect it may be the cause of your fish-eye type problems.

To be safe, I never recommend cleaning anything with rubbing alcohol. Some types are simply isopropyl alcohol diluted with 30% water, but others have those added ingredients. If you feel you must use alcohol to clean a surface before priming or painting I would use 91% isopropyl alcohol, but really if all you want to do is remove sanding residue I would just use a clean cloth dampened with distilled water.
 
#3 ·
Re: Silver Fire

Update: The second coat looks better, full coverage with no tendency towards fish eyeing. Wooh! Unless somebody recommends different, I think I'll let this coat dry overnight and then sand. It's still pretty rough.
 
#4 ·
Re: Silver Fire

I just used Kilz 2. Don't worry, it will look better. I did 2 coats of primer and 3 coats of paint. I could have been done in 2 coats but I had a drippy that I didn't see until it was too late.

Go slow and let the roller do ALL of the work. I didn't put any pressure on the wall at all.
 
#5 ·
Re: Silver Fire

Thanks Carp! Did you sand at all? If so, how long did you let the primer dry?

I'll be spraying the top coat; the Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium white finally. I rolled the primer 'cause I can always sand it. But it's just easier for me to spray the top coat. I have a take down paint booth I made out of PVC. It takes me about 5 minutes to set it up is all.

Thanks again!
 
#19 ·
Re: Silver Fire

Thanks Carp! Did you sand at all? If so, how long did you let the primer dry?

I'll be spraying the top coat; the Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium white finally. I rolled the primer 'cause I can always sand it. But it's just easier for me to spray the top coat. I have a take down paint booth I made out of PVC. It takes me about 5 minutes to set it up is all.

Thanks again!
I did sand over the SF and I think that was needed, but the only reason I had to sand that second time was that drip that dried. If that hadn't happened I wouldn't have had to sand again.

I can't remember exactly how long I waited for the primer, I know I painted again that same day.
 
#7 ·
Re: Silver Fire

Whats the gain of the Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium white.
From my comparison with the Carrada Brilliant White, I'm guessing 1.2--but that is only a guess. I need to get a sample to Mech for real testing. When I compared the two with my i1 Pro, the Glidden was just a teensy bit brighter than the Carada, and a little bit brighter off angle too. More color neutral as well. Here's a link to the thread, my test is a ways down the page. http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-screens/50853-time-repaint-my-screen-6.html#axzz2DI5yczfp
 
#9 ·
Re: Silver Fire

I just got my Epson 5020 and I'm using BW but with 3D the picture is a little bit dark. Thinking about getting something with a higher gain to help. So will this paint help with 3D thanks.
Yes, the Glidden will be quite a bit brighter than Black Widow. However, if your room isn't treated with dark walls, ceiling, floor and furniture; white is not a good choice. I'm going with the white, but I'm also going with charcoal ceiling and carpeting, black furniture and black velvet drapes on the walls...
 
#11 ·
Re: Silver Fire

Hey, you can always give it a go, and re-paint if you don't like it! :) The nice thing about the Glidden is it's off the shelf, no tint required at all. The bad thing is it's only available at Glidden dealers, not at home depot or lowes. If one is near you, that's no biggie. Me, I had to get mine shipped to me. Also, some of the dealers don't know that the Titaniam White is just the base paint. It's just the straight Diamond 450 base paint. (Low VOC is fine.) No tint, nothing but the straight can of paint. It rolls really well too.
 
#23 ·
Re: Silver Fire

Just a little bit of winter green... :) LOL No, it was 91% Isopropyl with no additives. Maybe it wasn't quite dry even though I gave it a couple of hours? Yeah, I probably should have used water in retrospect. The websites I found that talked about painting Poly all suggested some kind of cleaner/solvent... To do over I'd use damp rags to clean all the sanding dust off. I've got good coverage after two coats, but still rough even after a night's drying time. I'll be sanding for a few hours this morning!
 
#24 ·
Re: Silver Fire

OK, that was a LOT of work. :gulp: Wet sanding a 138" screen after a night of curing is not fun. Should have wet sanded yesterday. All the ridges are gone though. Tiny pits remain, so I'll be priming again. I'm trying to decide between spraying and rolling. I'm not 100% sure spraying will fill the pits, but my rolling skills apparently suck! :)
 
#27 ·
Re: Silver Fire

Well, you live and you learn. I tried rolling some test panels. Should have done that first. :doh: Now matter what I did, I couldn't get the Kilz premium to roll on reasonably flat. With Kilz 2, I could. I tried several different types of premium roller covers too. The best I found was the Sherwin Williams 9/16 Microfiber. Still, no love with the Kilz Premium. Spraying was a different story of course. I'm not saying the premium can't be rolled smooth, I'm just saying I can't roll it smooth. Biggest thing I learned? If you're good at spraying, and are iffy at rolling, spray. I thought I'd save time by getting two quick rolled on coats of primer, instead I cost myself several days of work.

I went ahead and skimmed the screen this morning, it was the only way to proceed. This evening I'll lightly sand and I should be good to go. I'll spray primer and top coat tomorrow.

Of course, now I'm debating my paint choice--here's why: I managed to pick up an Epson Light Power Edition filter for the 5010/5020. I've been looking for one for a year. They're only available in a couple of European countries, and even there they are difficult to find separate from a new PJ. But I have one now! Woo Hoo! Plus, Visual Apex had a Cyber Monday deal on the 5010, $1999. Couldn't pass that up since I had the LPE filter!

What is the LPE filter? It's a filter 12 cm in diameter that mounts on the 5010/5020. It corrects the native light output of the bulb in the same fashion as the internal filter, except that it is more efficient due to it's size. You run the PJ in Dynamic with a few adjustments listed in the instructions. Supposedly, you get over 1200 color correct lumens--in ECO lamp mode. Over 1600 in Normal lamp. PLUS, you get a healthy bump in native contrast! (Up to 5000 from about 4300.) I'll calibrate it and measure lumen output to see how it lives up to the claims. Here's the link. It's in German, so you'll have to use Google Translate. http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/Epson_TW9000/TW9000_Test.htm Why is this only available in a couple of European countries? I have no idea.

Anyways, with 1200 lumens on tap, now I'm thinking a neutral gray paint. On the other hand, 3D might benefit from white with my 138" screen...

If I paint the Glidden white now, will I be able to easily paint over it in a couple of weeks? I'm thinking since it's latex just prime and paint?
 
#30 ·
Re: Silver Fire

Well, you live and you learn. I tried rolling some test panels. Should have done that first. :doh: Now matter what I did, I couldn't get the Kilz premium to roll on reasonably flat. With Kilz 2, I could. I tried several different types of premium roller covers too. The best I found was the Sherwin Williams 9/16 Microfiber. Still, no love with the Kilz Premium. Spraying was a different story of course. I'm not saying the premium can't be rolled smooth, I'm just saying I can't roll it smooth. Biggest thing I learned? If you're good at spraying, and are iffy at rolling, spray. I thought I'd save time by getting two quick rolled on coats of primer, instead I cost myself several days of work.
Wow, I never heard of any problems rolling Kilz Premium so it's good to know about that issue. As for me personally, there is a reason my avatar is a spray gun. ;)

If I paint the Glidden white now, will I be able to easily paint over it in a couple of weeks? I'm thinking since it's latex just prime and paint?
There should be no problem at all, in fact you probably wouldn't have to prime and be able to simply apply the new paint over the Glidden.
 
#32 ·
Re: Silver Fire

And DONE! Woo Hoo! :sn: Why didn't I start a separate thread for this????? Anyways, I will start a seperate thread for how the white screen performs. I'll be sending a sample--sprayed at the same time as my screen-- to Mech for gain testing. I'm really curious how it measures out... It measures a teensy bit brighter than my sample of Carada Brilliant white, which is supposed to have a gain of 1.2. (Advertised as 1.4 gain.) Doesn't that mean it should have similar gain? I guess we'll find out! If it doesn't, my sample of Carada BW will also be on the way to Mech for gain testing!

By the way, the screen came out as close to perfect as I can imagine. My best effort yet. :sn: I do love spray guns. I used the Graco 2900 with a 1.0 mm tip. Kilz2 diluted at 3.5:1. The Glidden was diluted at 4:1.

And of course, I will be calibrating the PJ with it to Rec 709...
 
#33 ·
Re: Silver Fire

And DONE! Woo Hoo! :sn: Why didn't I start a separate thread for this????? Anyways, I will start a seperate thread for how the white screen performs.
I was kind of wondering about that too. :D It looks like all the posts from #94 on could be put into their own thread. I would be glad to do that for you if you would like, just start a thread and I'll drop those posts underneath your intro post.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top