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Advice on DIY screen for Epson 5020 in THX mode

6K views 31 replies 5 participants last post by  mhariush 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi there

I'm looking to add a 5020 to my living room home theater. I have a 50" G20 that I run in THX mode. I think my max screen will be 90-100".

I will mostly be using the projector with fairly controlled light and I'm thinking about adding some black blinding curtains to run the full length of the sides to make it a tiny "screening" area.

I have been reading about the BW screens, but I am sensitive to "grain" in a screen and I don't want to see any. And I want to get the deepest blacks I can get. I am leaning towards a Neutral Dark Grey. Anyone have any experience with this for the 5020? It seems bright enough for a grey screen only. I'll be fairly close to the screen 10 feet or so at the max.

I'll also be running it in THX mode, or at least that's the plan.

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
I have a 5020...

OK, if you're looking at 90" to 100", Go with 96". Why? You can use a standard 4 x 8 sheet of material at that size. 100" is not really any bigger and you'll need a 5' x 10' sheet.

Given a 96" screen size you can light up Glidden "Snowfield" just fine in ECO. That tint has been measured at .9 gain using Glidden Diamond 450 paint. If you go to "Veil" just a bit darker, you'll be fine in ECO when the bulb is new, but probably want to run THX mode in Normal lamp as the lamp gets some hours on it. The 5020 is not super quiet in normal, so I'd want to keep it in ECO. If you're going to go with black curtains, go with a dark rug in front of the screen and dark charcoal flat black paint for the first six feet of ceiling in front of the screen. Snowfield will look awesome with that setup, and you'll be able to stay in ECO on the lamp.

No mixing, no grain, no hotspots, no shimmer. Just a crystal clear screen. The Diamond 450 rolls like a dream too. You could also go with the Glidden Premium GLN-9000 sold at Home Depot, it's cheaper, but the gain may or may not be different and I don't know how it rolls.
 
#3 ·
thanks nak,
i've just started researching the different paints etc, so I'm not completely sure what you're referring to. Are these OTS colors from Glidden? What is the difference between the three you mentioned?

The plus on putting my projector in the wall from the other room is that I can go theater style with it and mount a sheet of museum grade (non glare) glass in front that will kill noise from it...Unless anyone here thinks that's a bad idea...or have suggestions for types of glass/acrylic that should be used...
 
#4 ·
Glidden Premium GLN-9000 is sold at Home Depot and is pretty inexpensive.

Glidden Diamond 450 is a premium paint sold at Glidden Professional paint stores.

Both base paints are white. Snowfield is a light gray tint, Veil is a darker gray tint. Both paints can be tinted either color.

If you go with the Diamond 450, get it in "Velvet Matte". I'm not sure what sheens the GLN-9000 comes in, look for flat or matte. I should have also mentioned my numbers are base don you mounting the PJ lens at 10' from the screen.

I have zero experience putting a PJ behind glass. You won't need to in ECO mode, in Normal, it might be nice...
 
#13 ·
There really has been no need for other answers, Nak has you covered. :T Being a 5020 owner he knows your PJ well and he has a good knowledge of screen and light physics. IIRC he can actually measure the light striking his screen which is always a good thing to do. It's my opinion that every PJ should come with a light meter for this purpose. They are quite inexpensive to buy.

If you are sensitive to seeing grain in your image then DO NOT use any type of screen mix that has reflective ingredients added to it, the odds of you seeing negative artifacting from them at a 10 foot viewing distance are high enough not to take the chance.
 
#11 ·
Yep, I have a sintra sheet mounted at the top and free floating at the sides and bottom. The trim holds it to the wall on the sides and bottom, but don't restrict it from vertical movement. That prevents warpage as the wall and screen settles. Very durable, easy to paint on--that's what it's designed for. You can go with 3mm or 6mm thick. The 6mm works for a free standing screen, the 3mm needs to be up against a wall. There's some stuff you can use at Home Depot too, pretty cheap, search for "Doable".
 
#14 ·
Thanks. Having read Nak's full thread too it does look like the Glidden paint is the one for me, and probably the Veil tint as it looks like I'll be swapping out my Panny G20 with the PJ as the only screen in my living room. So for casual viewing there will be some ambient light, but no direct, its pretty dark in there. And for movie watching i'll probably get some black Molton/Duvetyne curtains to close in the viewing area.
 
#17 ·
I painted a Sintra board with "Snowfield" Matte (Glidden Diamond 350 as the 450 only came in gallons), and although the picture is nice, it looks too bright in my environment. Even with darkened out windows the whole room is lit up and the screen looks a little washed out. In ambient light it's completed washed out.

I'm getting "Veil" today to see how that holds up. Maybe I have to go with a BW Mix despite the chance of sparkles...?
 
#18 ·
If the 'Veil' still is too bright for you, and you are using Eco lamp mode and the lowest lumen mode of the PJ, I think you should look into getting a neutral density filter for your PJ. As the lamp ages and dims you can simply remove the filter to get a brighter image again.
 
#19 ·
The Glidden shop closed early today so I'm going to see if I can get the veil at home depot with their Glidden paint and try. I hope the darker tint will give a better contrast especially with more embient light. but I think I'm going to try a BW mix but maybe with less aluminium....
 
#20 ·
The Glidden shop closed early today so I'm going to see if I can get the veil at home depot with their Glidden paint and try. I hope the darker tint will give a better contrast especially with more embient light.
You should have no problems getting 'Veil' in Glidden Premium paint at Home Depot, be sure to get the flat finish interior latex.

but I think I'm going to try a BW mix but maybe with less aluminium....
If you do that you will not end up with a neutral gray mix and you will lose a lot of the benefits BW™ has over an OTS paint the same shade. To make aluminum work well in a screen paint is a fine balancing act.
 
#22 ·
BW™ won't give you more ambient light absorption than 'Veil' as they are very close to the same shade of gray. All BW™ would give you is a brighter image, but that goes for black level as well as white-level. The theory promoted elsewhere that a mix can reflect whites and blacks differentially is bogus.
 
#23 ·
But if BW gives me a brighter picture, I would be ble to see better in ambient light, no? And where there's little light (blacks) it would stay the same? So overall it should give me a better perceived contrast or no?
So basically if I want something that's watchable in ambient light I would have to get Black Diamond type screen?

I'm new to the pj scene so this is a bit of a learning curve for me....
 
#24 ·
But if BW gives me a brighter picture, I would be ble to see better in ambient light, no? And where there's little light (blacks) it would stay the same? So overall it should give me a better perceived contrast or no?
The way BW™ works is that it absorbs off-axis ambient light as a true N7.5 screen should, but because a projected image is directional in nature, and on-axis to the screen, the aluminum flakes in the mix reflect the image as if the screen was N8 or even a bit brighter. If your ambient light is coming from behind the PJ it would be reflected the same at the projected image. It has to do with the angles that the ambient light is hitting the screen.

You might be able to get a slightly better image with BW™ than 'Veil', but I don't think it would be the amount of improvement you are looking for.

If you want to try an even darker neutral gray paint we can work on that, just say the word.

So basically if I want something that's watchable in ambient light I would have to get Black Diamond type screen?
Perhaps, but the BD has problems of it's own due to the high gain of the screen.

I'm new to the pj scene so this is a bit of a learning curve for me....
I understand. Reading the theories promoted at AVS DIY Screens and then here is probably adding to the confusion. I will just say that at HTS we stick to proven color science and the physical laws of refraction and reflection. Those are strangers at the other forum and members usually get slapped for bringing them up. That is sad.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Not that much. mostly daylight. I have a lamp that does wash out a lot, but I dont need to have it on...if i could that would be good but im not expecting miracles...

please dont mind the mess haha. I'm trying a panel of darker color just to test...


This was taken right now, around 5pm la time. Windows facing east. And because this is a cell phone photo the lamps and windows are more blown out than it really is...
 
#28 ·
I think I would concentrate my effort on getting some black out shades! :eek:

Get the Supernova over the Black Diamond. I'm uncertain how much the Black Diamond has changed since I received my sample, but it was not what I would consider good.
 
#29 ·
I am getting blackout curtains...picked up some duventine from FilmTools, but I would like to be able to watch with some lights on, like the picture...but it's not as bright at you see there. generally i feel the livingroom gets little light compared to others.

According to SI they haven't changed the material on the DB screens since 2010.

Harpmaker, I haven't calibrated it yet, I'm running it in THX mode and in complete darkness it close to perfection, beats my Panasonic G20...But I'll get a disc and fiddle around.
 
#30 ·
THX is a waste with that much light anyway; you'll never get accurate color with anywhere near the kind of ambient light you have. Go with Living Room mode. Don't even think THX mode in that room. That'll get you a lot closer to what you want. And, as Mech said, get blackout shades. With all lights out and no ambient light, then you can think THX. With lights on, Living Room mode is what you want. That's why it's there.
 
#31 ·
Oh yeah, in ambient light like this I run livingroom mode. I did some adjustments to it but it looks like its at the extreme ends, so not sure how much calibration can be done to it. The pic was taken with livingroom mode. And its not quite as washed out as the pic showed...
 
#32 ·
Superman786, "Veil" looks great in a dark room. But when i applied it i made some mistakes and for some reason got a few places that are shinier than others...it's all the same paint so go figure. This causes some extra "sparkles" or as it turns out, more visible "color pixels"

I went to Home Depot today to get a dark dark grey to see how that looked, a 60% grey and that was terrible. Way to dark, but i figured worth a shot. I also picked up a small container of Martha Stewart Metallic Paint Specialty Finish in Thundercloud. It looked similar in color to the BD I saw earlier today in a showroom so I thought I'd give it a try. First I mixed it 50/50 with the grey, that didn't do anything.

Then I painted parts of a panel (badly), with a brush (the only way i got shine from it) and put it up to my screen. It looked pretty good I must say...makes me think a BD-ish screen is possible with paint... It does "sparkle" but I'm going to try and wet sand it tomorrow with very fine grit paper to get the brush lines out and maybe matte it down a little to make it less shiny. But the colors looks pretty great, almost some hot spotting but hard to tell in the small sample. The black, even in the dark room is great! But the viewing cone is terrible...but hey, if I can watch with ambient light sitting in my couch that's fine...I rare watch my screen from the side anyway...


this is with the big lamp on (the one in the picture)

(lights out)

Interesting...Makes me want to try some dark grey metallic...
 
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