Horn or MBM for dedicated theater - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 
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post #1 of 7 Old 07-17-16, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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Horn or MBM for dedicated theater

**This sub will be used 100% for a Home Theater, not music**
****He did inquire about some JBL, Klipsch, QSC Cinema Speakers but I asked him to wait for "forum member feedback first". DIY would save a lot of money.

So, my friend is driving me nuts. He's not completely satisfied with the bass from his ported 18" sub.
He's telling me he wants more "theater bass" not music bass. Apparently he would like movie theater bass not necessarily under 20hz bass.
The same sound you find in a movie theater during explosive and action scenes. I assume that means somewhere between 25hz -100hz or up to 200hz? around 120db maybe a bit more (for the LOUD explosions). Just quick tight hard bass. He has sealed subs near field for anything under 20hz.


Option 1: Build either a L-Horn, G-Horn, or Submaximus. After looking through the plans the Maximus looks easiest followed by the L-horn. But he will build whichever is the BEST choice. He would rather build 1 sub that fits his needs vs 4 subs that do not.


Option 2: Add another ported sub. Not sure if he will go for that. Full size Marty or other ported.


Option 3: Add some MBM from diysoundgroup. I assume the largest box. How many would he require?


Option 4: No such beast lol


He has a basement theater 25ft long, 18ft wide, 8 foot ceiling. I realize much of this will be subjective since 1 sub is adequate for some while others want/need more. He was one 20amp circuit available, could use an Inuke 6000dsp bridged or another brand as long as its compatible with 20amp circuit. I assume if his only option was to upgrade his circuit, he would.

If he builds a horn sub, which driver should be buy? He was thinking of the UXL-18 and which amplifier?

OH, His current setup is Klipsch Heresy II, KG center and rears, two 18" sealed UM-18 and one 11cuft Ported SI-18

If Possible can he use the SI-18DS4 or Ultimax 18?

If you need more info. fire away.
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post #2 of 7 Old 07-17-16, 08:58 PM
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Re: Horn or MBM for dedicated theater

What exactly is he looking for?

Theater bass is a bit misleading for me. When I say I want more theater bass I would assume he has capable mains and just needs more 20hz or above. SO MBM would be my guess. But it is a single 12" and an older design speaker so not sure. Everyone is different. I have heard many different pro cinema setups and the most tactile dynamic setup I heard was a setup that had a coaxial mid/high and horn loaded 12's down to 100hz. The subs were just big cinema subs down to about 20hz.(-10db 20hz) The mains that normally went with the cinema setup were too natural for me and seemed lifeless. And that speaker had four 15's in each main speaker.

SO all that comes back to what does your friend have? Has he measured? Is he listening in a room mode area?

First thing when getting into DIY is to buy a good microphone for measuring and a good quality interface. Then you can see what your missing and build accordingly. If you only read and build and never measure this will be a very long wrong of money spent and never being happy.

Four 18's sealed or ported would be enough for most. Then its up to your mains being capable. Then everything integrating together (phase, delay, EQ, decay ect)

"Music is the space between the notes"
[T]o talk well and eloquently is a very great art, but that an equally great one is to know the right moment to stop.
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post #3 of 7 Old 07-17-16, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Horn or MBM for dedicated theater

He has plenty of bass under 20hz. When using a SPL meter his bass is just under 80db. He would like "louder" bass. Something that plays up to and maybe over 100db for the quick shock effect when something explodes or bullets are flying etc. In the movie theaters everything plays at Reference levels. He thought about building a sub for that purpose only. He seen some JBL and QSC ported subs that reach over 120db
http://www.qsc.com/cinema/products/l...rs/subwoofers/
The 1st sub listed play 2hz-170hz 125db.
Could he build a ported UM-18 and still achieve those levels or more?
Could he use an Inuke DSP or EP amp?
I just figured a Horn sub would be the easiest solution to hit higher dB but they may not integrate as well. I thought Horn subs were mainly for Concerts not Theaters. I could be wrong...
Does this information make more sense?
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post #4 of 7 Old 07-18-16, 12:13 AM
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Re: Horn or MBM for dedicated theater

As others have stated on AVS you need to measure first. After that you can go from there. I can always tell you how to spend your money but I prefer to help remedy the situation instead. So see if he can boost his levels for the bass. You can add 10 more subs but you might not still get what your after. Its not the coolest thing in the world but microphone is a big part of being happy with your DIY setups.

"Music is the space between the notes"
[T]o talk well and eloquently is a very great art, but that an equally great one is to know the right moment to stop.
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post #5 of 7 Old 07-18-16, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Horn or MBM for dedicated theater

Quote:
chrapladm wrote: View Post
As others have stated on AVS you need to measure first. After that you can go from there. I can always tell you how to spend your money but I prefer to help remedy the situation instead. So see if he can boost his levels for the bass. You can add 10 more subs but you might not still get what your after. Its not the coolest thing in the world but microphone is a big part of being happy with your DIY setups.
The room is EQ'd, sounds good, has plenty of bass 20hz and under. He's trying to get "louder bass" over 100Db. The SPL meter reads 80db. How can he achieve 120Db or More? Thats where he is weak with the shock factor. Should he add another large Ported sub with a bridged Inuke DSP? A Horn Sub or something else? I doubt I can increase the DSP to 130db or can I.

He sent me a link from QSC. As you can see the Ported subs play very loud.

http://www.qsc.com/cinema/products/l...rs/subwoofers/ Single and Dual Drivers.

Maybe he meaning I can build a ported sub instead of a horn. Which drivers or drivers would work best. QSC uses Celestion, B&C and Eminence. If not those, will Dayton UM-18 or SI-DS4 work?
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post #6 of 7 Old 07-18-16, 11:48 AM
 
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Re: Horn or MBM for dedicated theater

My room is 19' x 25' and i use a pair of DTS-10 subs. These subs go down to 10Hz and I can hit over 120Db with them. If you check the used market you can find a pair sometimes.

Ron

My Home Theater
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) JBL 2360A/EV DHA-1s, (3) 1/4 Pie bass bins, (2 pr) JBL 8340As, (2 pr) JBL 8320s, PS3, XBox One, (2) Intel NUCs, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster Signature HTPS7000, (2) Furman Power Conditioners, (2) DTS-10 subs, Panasonic AE8000, SeymourAV 180 (195" diag) scope screen, Darbee Darcet, Panamorph UH-480 lens, (2) Crest Audio 2208, Yamaha XM-4080 & P7000s, (2) MiniDSP DDRC-88M, Oppo UDP-203

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post #7 of 7 Old 07-18-16, 02:17 PM
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Re: Horn or MBM for dedicated theater

How is the sub EQed now? I would simply reduce the amount of low end frequency and boost the frequency range he wants (60-100Hz would be my guess)
Also, where does he have the sub located in his room? corner placement can help alot with how much mid bass is produced.
Sometimes its not about how the frequency response looks on a graph but how the end user likes how it sounds.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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