Other Black Widow Options

[mechman]

There's been a lot more work done in the last month or more to try and find a lighter version of Black Widow. Much of the discussion surrounding it can be found in the Further Investigations Part II thread. Initially I was quite encouraged with some of the early trials as it seemed like we were getting near the N8 area on the Munsell scale. However, that turned out to not be the case as I was unable to duplicate what I initially tested as a 4:1:1 mix on a larger scale. I'll explain that a bit further later.

What we did come up with though are what I would consider some more viable options for folks looking to get a tad bit darker or a tad bit darker than the original Black Widow Auto Air Aluminum 4:1. As I'm sure everyone is aware the original BW-AAA was comprised of a base Bermuda Beige in flat enamel mixed with Auto Air Aluminum Fine at a ratio of 4:1. My original base paint was Valspar Ultra Premium Flat Enamel Ultra White - 213482. During the experiments it was found that adding the Valspar Flat Enamel Ultra White would lighten the mix and not mess too bad with the neutrality of the mix. Reading the Further Investigations Part II thread you'll realize we came up with a few that showed promise. These were 4:1:1, 3:1:1, 3:1, and 2:1:2. Along the way the investigation took several side tracks in order to look into things that were being either roadblocks or possible better solutions. These were investigated as well. And I can say unequivocally, I'm done chasing pipe dreams! I don't read the other forums anymore as there's no reason for me to do so.

I think we'll get this thread going discussing sheen and it's effects upon Black Widow. I'm not a sheen expert but I've got enough of a handle on it to know that it is not what we're looking for. Adding sheen in a screen paint reduces the amount of TiO2 - titanium dioxide. Which is the main reflecting ingredient in a paint and reflecting is what we want! Adding sheen in a topcoat is a different matter and one which I'll defer to wbassett and benven to discuss. But to touch on it just a bit. If you have a solid base paint, ie CGiv, sheen as a topcoat will add gain. Gain has it's pluses and minuses and they've been discussed here.

So on to the sheen tests....

[mechman]

Sheen

Benven stated that sheen was being created when adding Auto Air Aluminum to a Flat Enamel Base. At first I thought he was nuts as my eye just couldn't see it. But after reviewing it and trying to pin it down without buying a glossometer - I've spent enough on this 'hobby'! I think that benven's statement is correct. Sorry Ben! (I say that a lot to him! ) There is sheen added. From my trials with the fireworks aluminum I figure the AAA has somewhere between 2-3 parts aluminum to 1 part transparent base - acrylic polymer according to the MSDS. So... how do I show it?

Well the only way I could think of involved light and my camera so here they are. All I did was angle the panel towards the light and capture a picture of the reflected light. I'm absolutely positive someone will say I should have shown a picture of a satin and a gloss, but I don't have any. And I'm done satisfying the whims of the skeptics. The mix is proven, both by us and many independent individuals. There's absolutely no need for me to keep on whims. You can actually see some of the curvatures in the foam panels that frustrated me early on. But I got those fixed.




There are eight photos and I cannot tell you at all which are which other than the first is the Behr 1850 Black Widow and the fourth is TV Winter Mist in a flat. There's a Valspar Signature Matte tinted Veil in there somewheres and a bunch of Black Widows. The Behr 1850 stood out mainly because it was a matte to start with as opposed to the Valspar Flat Enamels that I used with everything else.



By eye I swore all the BW's, outside of the Behr 1850, were less sheen than the matte Veil. But my camera told a different story and I'll stick with it. They all appear to be matte outside of Winter Mist.

So that brings us to the thoughts by Ben that sheen is creating all the BW's mojo. That's up next...

[mechman]

Sheen and Black Widow's mojo

We've discussed sheen. Now let's talk aluminum (BW's mojo). You've seen the magnifications. If you haven't seen my, more than likely poor, math skills, they're here. So how do we show that it's the aluminum? I had a failed panel sitting around and I took these two shots:





That was my attempt at using a Preval sprayer to spray a panel with BW-AAA. You can clearly see where there were runs that the aluminum is doing a great job reflecting light. In the second photo, you can see the gray aluminum which was reflecting the light.

Here's some macros to digest:





If you click on those thumbnails you can clearly see the aluminum. And on the Veil and Winter Mist panels you won't see any. A couple of them ended up out of focus - sorry. But suffice it to say I'll be taking another of the Behr 4850 sometime soon as I believe it hid the aluminum better than any other paint. Why? I have no idea.

I may get some of the HE558 versions as well.

I think this and the magnifications conclusively show that there's aluminum on the surface of Black Widow. And aluminum reflects.









I think that's enough for me tonight. I've typed more than I like and this hobby is becoming less and less fun every day. I'll finish it up tomorrow.

I'm gonna reserve a few more posts and then open it up.

[mechman]

BW-AAA 3:1

This ratio is pretty much identical to Valspar Signature Matte tinted 'Veil'. Both in spectrum



And in color



But most definitely not in performance.







These two are virtually identical in sheen and color. And while the blacks are pretty much identical, the whites are much better than the 'Veil'. I have shown yesterday pretty conclusively that it's the aluminum. I think that these add to that. One only needs to look at the macros above to see the aluminum.

The panels measured today - right now.

Black Widow - AAA 3:1

182 183 183
0.312 0.329 47.2
74.3 -0.35 -0.12

Veil in a matte finish

181 183 183
0.311 0.329 47.1
74.3 -0.70 -0.25

[mechman]

If you look at all of the spectrums they all appear to be generally the same.

2:1:2



As you can see above the 2:1:2 mix didn't turn out to be as neutral as we would have liked. Nor as light as we would have liked. At 192 195 196 it has a color temp of 6685.7 which is 182 from D65. This means that only folks who are capable of calibrating their projector to accompany this tint should try it. It did give us some nice whites though. But as is always the case with lighter and darker mixes, they always offset one another.

3:1:1



The 3:1:1 mix comes in dead neutral and is recommended for those looking for a slightly lighter shade of gray. As you can see below in the 4:1:1, they are about the same. I think if you are painting a smaller screen, I'd go with the 3:1:1. For a larger screen that requires more paint, I'd go with the 4:1:1. If you look at the macros of each of the particular panels above, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in the amount of aluminum on the screen.

4:1:1



Upper left is 4:1:1
Lower left is 3:1:1
Upper right is 3:1
Lower right is 2:1:2





In this set I added the matte 'Veil' to the top middle





The 2:1:2 has some impressive whites but it's not neutral. The other three all work well, look good, and perform well. I'm going to have a tough time picking a particular mix to use for my screen!

[mechman]

I'll add dialog later. I'm late for hockey. But this is a menagerie of stuff - Designer White, Silver Fire, several different Black Widows - including Luminous White 6:1, Winter Mist, Veil, etc.

[tweakophyte]

Hi Mech-

Thanks for all the work. Would you mind explaining what you see in the spectrum charts? I thought BW was flat on one of the charts you first put together, but all of these curve down.

Thanks,

[mechman]

tweakophyte wrote:

Hi Mech-

Thanks for all the work. Would you mind explaining what you see in the spectrum charts? I thought BW was flat on one of the charts you first put together, but all of these curve down.

Thanks,

Yep the first one I did of the 4:1 mix was flat. That was from a small sample dot like these:



I never re-did the spectrum as I never thought about it. The curve in these is relative. When I do these in i1share and excel the curves tend to be a bit more pronounced. The nice thing is I can see the actual numbers. The drop you're seeing on the tail end is about .02. Is that a lot? I'd say no, but I'm uncertain. What I can tell you for certain is that the majority of that drop cannot be seen by the human eye!

The significance of the second spectrum is to show that both the matte Veil and the BW-AAA 3:1 mix are pretty close. And I've tried to show that their sheen matches. So they should be relatively the same performance wise - in theory!

I have a ton of errands to run today. Don't expect anything until later this afternoon.

[mechman]

I'm going to show you some more spectrums of the BW-AAA panel. Mainly because I'm sure it will raise hairs with someone!

So here's some new perspective on these. These were all done in BabelColor and are of the same BW-AAA panel.



How's that for a nice flat curve? Same sample:



Notice the tell tale infrared end? And this one:



So what do I get out of all of these spectrums? Well mainly I get it out of the one done in i1share and excel, but these three illustrate my point nicely. Flat is relative to the reference. And what we're seeing with BW-AAA is a nice climb up and out of the UltraViolet and into the realm of human eyesight where it sits pretty much flat all along the way. And then when it gets near the infrared it starts to tail off. But not by much.

I hope this helps tweak! Keep the lumps relative to the reference! And yeah I think we'd all like to get a nice flat spectrum image! That's kind of like searching for the Holy Grail though!

[mechman]

I needed one more post I guess. These pictures are of BW-AAA back left, BW-AAA (made with behr 1850) small panel middle top, BW-HE558 Luminous white 6:1 middle, and Designer White on the right. The first three are with what I consider normal ambient light in my room. The last 2 are lights out.

[tweakophyte]

My wife gets cold, so I guess that roll-off on the IR side is not for me.

[mechman]

Time to finish up the descriptions of what we're seeing.

This shot has the BW/AAA 4:1 on the left back, The BW/LW-he558 6:1 in the middle back, Designer White Laminate back right, Valspar Signature matte tinted Veil front bottom and BW/AAA 4:1 with Behr 1850 as a base on top.



This next one same as above except no Veil. That's True Value Winter Mist on the bottom right front.



The next two are the same but with nothing on the bottom front. One has no ambient light the other has normal ambient light for my theater.





The next two show the Designer White on the back left, BW/L-he558 6:1 back right, attached to the BW/AAA 4:1 in the middle are the 3:1:1 on top and the 4:1:1 on the bottom, and the Veil is sitting in front. One with lights out. One with normal lighting.





The next two are the same as above but it's Winter Mist in front.





These show the same three in back - DW, BW/AAA 4:1, BW/LW-he558 6:1 - with the BW/AAA 3:1 bottom middle front. Lights on and off again.





I'll add the rest later today!