OK confusing

[fernalfers]

I see everyone coming up with all there paint mixes they think are good. Has anyone come up with a end all paint solution? Or at least narrowed it down to 2-3 mixes that are good with ambient light?

Every post seems like there is a different mix. If anyone at all could point me in the direction of a tested paint mix that is decent with ambient light it would be greatly appreciated. And kudos to the ones that take the time to test these out for everyone else.

I just see so many different mixes not sure which one to go with.

My screen will be 114 inches with some ambient light. i can control the lighting but there will be times when i would like a little light just to see whats going on with the kids playing in the other half of room or watching a ball game.

My projector will be the epson home cinema 1080UB if that helps. Not sure if i can paint laminate or what substrate would be the best to go with for this size screen.

[mechman]

There really is a lot of different mixes! Fortunately, with what we've accomplished here at the Shack, you can limit your list quite a bit! First off, most everything from the past that is not neutral can be thrown out. That right there would cut the list considerably. Then it's just a matter of what you want. If you want some thing dark gray, use Black Widow. If you want something lighter try a lighter neutral gray paint.

We like to keep things simple here (confounds the masses elsewhere ) and we like to keep it neutral.

Are you looking for a screen soon? Post some information such as your projector, throw distance and how much ambient light we're talking about. I'm sure we can narrow it further!

[wbassett]

That's always going to be a problem with DIY... no matter how good something is there is always someone trying to make something better. Sometimes they do improve things, sometimes though they don't. Someone could create the ultimate screen, whether it's paint or anything, and it will always be contested by someone. That's just the nature of DIY and some of the people in it is all.

To answer your question though, yes there are at least 2-3 known and proven methods that work very well with both ambient light viewing and lights out viewing. I'd have to look up the specs on your projector to get an idea of what range of gray would be best suited for your situation and then from there you can decide from the methods that fall in that range.

I've never been one to push any one particular method, it mainly depends on the individual and their situation.

I'm tied up with a few things at work right now so if I don't get back to you right away I'm sure someone else will answer up shortly with some recommendations.

[Harpmaker]

Hi fernalfers,

So far there has been no "One screen paint to rule them all". In fact, as I understand things, it is against the laws of physics for there to be such a thing. No one has yet come up with a paint that can be light and dark at the same time. But we're working on it.

I'm too new at this DIY screen thing to make any hard suggestions, but if you have any ambient light at all, and you say you do, I wouldn't use a white screen, or even my humble creation Cream&Sugar (which is a VERY light reflective gray). Most people feel (and I'm one of them) that any light at all falling on a white screen really hurts colors and contrast. Even light reflected from the screen itself and bouncing off light colored walls or ceilings back onto the screen can bother a white screen.

Oh, and ya gotta forgive mech, sometimes his eyes read faster than his brain can keep up with.

[fernalfers]

Well again the ambient light can be controlled but there will be time i'd like to watch the projector with my recessed lighting dimmed up a bit. Especially with people over a little lighting would be nice without a complete turn for the worse in PQ on the projected screen.

As for the screen, i guess i'm not sure what is best to paint on? and also with the size being 114 inches not sure what comes in sizes bigger then 4x8.

Again i,m open for any suggestions but a painted screen for some ambient light is what i'm shooting for. Just need the advice from you guys who actually know and have tested first hand a paint mix that can have some ambient light and keep the PQ pretty good.

[wbassett]

I show around 15fL so you can definitely handle an N8 shade of gray. The question is if you would like a darker gray like that or if you prefer a lighter gray.

Projector Central wrote:

A key advantage is that the Cinema 1080 UB is a very bright projector, and that it has a range of brightness options so you can adopt it to your particular room, screen size, and intended use. It is rated at 1600 ANSI lumens, and believe it or not, in its brightest operating mode ("Vivid") we measured exactly 1600 ANSI lumens, with the lens set to its widest angle configuration. I can count on one had the projectors that have measured at or above their rated lumen spec since we started reviewing projectors in 1999.

My preference would be to go with a nice neutral N8. As far as substrates, you're going to be hard pressed to find one the size you need so you a limited to either painting directly on the wall, or go with a canvas or BOC screen and then paint that. I went with painting on the wall for my screen.

Here's a thread on working with rough walls and one alternative to using a substrate to paint on.

Here are some links on how to determin if gray is for you and a gray screen even with total light control.

I wouldn't have any fear recommending an N8 gray for you.

Next determine your skill level and what you know you feel comfortable doing. If you can spray, and don't have any fear of mixing, then there are numerous options. If you know you'll have problems with more complex applications, then a simple Off The Shelf neutral gray is what I would recommend.

Let me know what you feel comfortable with and then I'll narrow down the options for you in both an N8 shade as well as an N9 range just incase you end up prefering a lighter gray.

Sorry if this seems a bit more involved than just saying 'Use this', but I am not one to just do a blanket recommendation to everyone as a 'one screen fits all' type mentality. We'll get things narrowed down quickly from here, so don't worry.

It's better to take some time and get the screen you want and then you're done with things and off to enjoy your projector rather than constantly looking for something else.

[fernalfers]

WBasset first off i want to thank you for even taking the time to help me out. Ok i could paint directly on my wall seeing it was just redone with new sheetrock and my walls are smooth.

As for shade of grey? not sure the difference from a lighter grey to a darker one? meaning N8 as opposed to N9. As for looks when projector is not on i'd rather have a lighter shade of grey.

No i'm not a good sprayer but could i roll this on? And as for mixing paints i'd have no problem doing so especially if mixing certain paints has a better outcome then just buying a grey off the shelf.

[wbassett]

Okay sounds like you're an N9 man!

A simple OTS (Off The Shelf) neutral grays would be
True Value Winter Mist

You don't have to go to True Value to get it, I recommend going to Lowes and getting it in either the Valspar Flat Enamel, or in the Valspar Signature Series Matte finish. They can look the color up on their computer.

For more complex
Harp is working on a "Cream and Sugar" that is ready for prime time, just check out his thread. It's a bit more complex than a simple OTS but not as complex as some methods.

CGIV- a multi layered approach and each layer has it's own mix and measurements. It is reported to be good but I haven't used it myself so I can't comment on it's performance. One thing to note is it is reported to have a 1.8 gain. You have a very bright 1080 projector so you may not need that amount of gain.

MMudd is also one that is a lighter gray that a lot of people have used and it performs well.

SILVER is also in the shade range you mentioned but it's a spray only application.

And then there is Black Widow, it's a darker gray but it performs like a lighter one but not quite as light as an N9 shade of gray. It also may be worth taking a look at.

Winter Mist is the most neutral of the light grays. I could list a ton of brands, but you won't have any problem matching that at Lowes.

I'm sure you'll get some additional input, but I'm trying to keep the list down to known applications that perform well and are in the range you specified. Do some searches here for the various methods and see if any catch your eye as far as being interested in trying it, and then ask more questions! Everyone here is happy to help and the goal is to get you a screen that works best for your setup and personal preferences.

[mechman]

Black Widow! Accept no substitute!

[Harpmaker]

I too think one of the lighter Black Widow mixes would be right for your situation.

In my limited testing, the N9 panels did not like ANY ambient light on them, but the only tests I have done on such light gray panels were those I documented in my Cream&Sugar thread.

I must point out that I, personally, like a really DARK screen, and the C&S mixes are an off-shoot from my delving into making a DARKER BW-type mix.

I think I would recommend trying Cream&Sugar (the first mix, the LW/CSMS 2:1 - see the thread) since it is easy to mix (and Wbassett is recommending a N9 for you), and then if it turns out to be too light for you, you can roll a BW mix over it. I only recommend this since I don't know how well C&S would roll over the darker BW mix if you tried this in reverse. My honest guess is that BW is your best choice.

[<^..^>Smokey Joe]

Now to throw a spanner in the works.

Ambient light or not please consider a few parameters before any choice is made.

Reflective light levels are probably the most important thing to consider, the typical aim for a dark room is 15~20ftl(new bulb), we easily end up at around 12 with an aged bulb. The reason I state this is that a grey screen absorbs valuable light.
These slopes are from a AE900, what you are looking at is loss of top and total dynamic range when using various shades of grey by calculated percentage loss.The second graph is why we use a grey screen, to iliminate and absorb the lower end light and create the ilusion of deeper blacks.





Nothing wrong with a deep grey or any grey, just remember your total reflective light has to cut above the ambient level that is directly striking the screen.

The homework is; find out what the fl output of your projector is for the screen size you are aiming at with a gain of 1. A N9 try gain of 0.8 then N8 at 0.6(Projectorcentral has a good calculator)

Dispite a bright PJ it is easy to get caught by taking things a tad too far. Always allow head room for aging bulbs, think 25%. Also there can be tricks to get lumens high in projectors, when you calibrate them they can lose some of those rated levels.

Push the parameters of the calculators to the extremes, find out where you cant go. Find your sweet spots, work from there.

Changing the balance of colour or shade of neutral around the screen changes your perception of black.
White can still be used if you choose carefully the surrounding shade.
How and what type of lighting is used can make a difference.

[fernalfers]

oh so confusing. Can anyone send me the black widow mix. Meaning exactly what i need to get. It sounds like thats the way to go.

It would be greatly appreciated.

[cynical2]

Don't be discouraged, Blitz!

Here is the link for the Black Widow mix.

[fernalfers]

Ok well i will be mixing the Black Widow mix. Now should i paint this directly to my wall? My wall is perfectly flat, brand new sheetrock. Or will this go better on something like laminate?

I want a 114inch screen so the wall seems like a better choice.

But your input is welcome.

[cynical2]

Blitz, as far as being frustrated/confused...this stuff really isn't all that hard to understand...at least to get to a decent level of competence. Bill and mech have done an incredible job with the Stickies at the top of this forum. In my humble opinion, it's the best "collection" of DIY screen information around. If you read through them that's a great foundation.

[cynical2]

fernalfers wrote:

Ok well i will be mixing the Black Widow mix. Now should i paint this directly to my wall? My wall is perfectly flat, brand new sheetrock. Or will this go better on something like laminate?

I want a 114inch screen so the wall seems like a better choice.

But your input is welcome.

Yep, your wall will do just fine. You will probably want to prime it first with something like Kilz-2) a couple of coats). New sheetrock will soak paint up, so priming is a necessary step.

You may also want to watch the Kilz-2 screen for a while...it's a good place to start. It's relatively neutral, and assuming you decide to move forward with the BW mix, you'll have a good idea of the differences that BW delivered to your viewing (vs a flat white screen).

Good luck and keep us updated!

[marshmue]

fernalfers wrote:

I see everyone coming up with all there paint mixes they think are good. Has anyone come up with a end all paint solution? Or at least narrowed it down to 2-3 mixes that are good with ambient light?

Every post seems like there is a different mix. If anyone at all could point me in the direction of a tested paint mix that is decent with ambient light it would be greatly appreciated. And kudos to the ones that take the time to test these out for everyone else.

I just see so many different mixes not sure which one to go with.

My screen will be 114 inches with some ambient light. i can control the lighting but there will be times when i would like a little light just to see whats going on with the kids playing in the other half of room or watching a ball game.

My projector will be the epson home cinema 1080UB if that helps. Not sure if i can paint laminate or what substrate would be the best to go with for this size screen.

I made the Black Widow screen using sheetrock nailed to an existing wall. Since I had no True Value nearby and Sherwin Williams only sell gallons, I purchased 1 quart of Ace hardware Royal brand bright white interior flat latex. I purchased a gallon of the Henry's 558. I mixed to the 5:1 ratio.
I am very delighted with the result (thanks to the creators of this method) I have a Mits HC4900 and the screen is 96x55. I can get a good, very viewable image even with some ambient light. I doubt you can go wrong with the BW screen. pretty cheap too. too bad the Henry's isn't available in quarts but the gallon was only $30 including freight. (couldn't find it locally)

[mechman]

marshmue wrote:

I made the Black Widow screen using sheetrock nailed to an existing wall. Since I had no True Value nearby and Sherwin Williams only sell gallons, I purchased 1 quart of Ace hardware Royal brand bright white interior flat latex. I purchased a gallon of the Henry's 558. I mixed to the 5:1 ratio.
I am very delighted with the result (thanks to the creators of this method) I have a Mits HC4900 and the screen is 96x55. I can get a good, very viewable image even with some ambient light. I doubt you can go wrong with the BW screen. pretty cheap too. too bad the Henry's isn't available in quarts but the gallon was only $30 including freight. (couldn't find it locally)

Welcome to the Shack marsh! Always good to hear from another satisfied user.