Black Widow Beta Testers Needed

**blue eyed soul** · **04-16-09, 02:08 PM**

you're welcome, Don. For Bermuda Beige I ran across a different solution using the ncs color scheme. From what I read, NCS S0907-y70r could be a perfect 10 on bb and NCS could be mixed here. I would like to go ahead and give that the first try. I would nevertheless follow your ral path if its of any help to you, just let me know. I might be able to get small amounts mixed as samples and have them rushed over to you.
As for the metallic element in Craft smart metallic silver: I ordered some samples from sili today which I will have available by next week. They have coated and uncoated aluminum flakes in different sizes as well as polyester flakes, glassbeads and ceramicbeads. Again, I am not allowed to post links yet but if you google for sigmund lindner you can find their page in both english and german.
Sili does not typically cater to private costumers but they are extremely friendly and seemed open minded about my idea. Who knows, I might get some small amounts of different flakes to fool around with in addition to their sample charts.
I also contacted Michaels today about purchasing craft smart metallic silver (possibly under a different brand name) over here. I will let you know when I get an answer.

**wbassett** · **04-16-09, 03:31 PM**

Maybe it would be better to try it this way... Jan what brands of paint do you have available to you? EasyRGB just added some more brands and maybe you have access to one that's already in the DB. If so, we can find the closest match that way.

**blue eyed soul** · **04-17-09, 10:57 AM**

Hi Bill, thanks for your reply.
I just browsed through the listed paints at EasyRGB. I couldn't find one that sounds familiar to me. Virtually all home improvement stores over here have their own 'house brands' . They are simply resellers but won't reveal the original supplier. In addition to these house brands, Brillux, Alpina and Dulux (apparantly not using the australian scheme here) are widely used paints.
Funny though, I just researched for companies that can mix using different color schemes and the first one i found is a somewhat pricy decorating company, roughly 100 feet from my home. Fresh off their website they claim to handle
'Caparol 3d, Keim, Ral, Herbol, Alpina, NCS, Farrow & Ball, Brillux, Villeroy & Boch, Glasurit, STO, Alligator, Bondex, Capamix, Crown, Dispon, Dulux, Flamant, Histor, Sigma as well as others'.
As stated before i heard that NCS S0907-y70r is equivalent to Bermuda Beige. Has anyone ever measured and verified that claim?
BTW, do you have any idea what the miraculous particles in Craft smart metallic silver might be?

**blue eyed soul** · **04-17-09, 11:34 AM**

Oh and since this is my 6th post now, i can finally link to the before mentioned company that produces coated and uncoated aluminum- and polyester flakes as well as ceramicbeads and glassbeads in all different sizes:

http://www.sigmund-lindner.com/

has anyone ever experimented with that kind of stuff or tried to substitute craft smart metallic silver for it?

**Harpmaker** · **04-17-09, 02:41 PM**

Hi Jan,

Thanks for the link to sigmund-lindner. The problem we have been having is that these large companies don't want to sell to small guys like us. If we can't buy at least 25 kilo of the stuff they don't have time for us. Please let us know how you make out getting samples, it might give us some hope.

The main "miraculous" quality Craft Smart Metallic Silver has is that it isn't iridescent as mica-based metallics are. This matters because mica flakes refract light as well as reflect it and this can cause color shifting and shimmering if too much is used in a mix. Also, the CSMS seems to have larger flakes than the mica-based paints I have tested. These flakes are more visible in the mix and seem to reflect light better. As I have said, since the metallic flakes in CSMS are not mica or aluminium I believe they must be coated polyester or some other plastic. Companies are very tight lipped about what is really in their paints and Material Data Safety Sheets only give so much information.

All of the paint that has aluminum flakes as the metallic element have really darkened the mix when added to paint; it also adds a lot of blue to the mix, that is the reason for using a tinted base for making Black Widow, the tint counters the blue of the aluminum. CSMS is also a bit blue, but not anywhere near as strong as aluminium.

**mechman** · **04-21-09, 09:09 PM**

Still no pictures from any of you beta folks...

**clark17** · **05-01-09, 02:33 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

Still no pictures from any of you beta folks...

Mechman I can post more pictures using my small testing cardboard

, I don't think that will do the justice. Actually I did made up my mind on using Scorpion N8 once my basement is done.

I did buy 3m of stretchable black velvet and I will use either mdf or poplar wood (painted black under velvet) to build frame for it. Once I have it, I'll post tons of pictures....

The only thing I have to figure out is how to mount the frame onto the drywall, so I'll be able to use 2.40:1 masking schema ..

**mechman** · **05-01-09, 05:55 PM**

Just get me some pictures when you're done Martin!

**kermyb123** · **05-05-09, 07:48 PM**

Not to jump in here - Is anyone playing with a darker BW mix? N6?

**mechman** · **05-05-09, 08:47 PM**

Harp was for awhile. I'm not sure where he got with it. He's on the road for a couple more days. When he gets back I'm certain he'll chime in.

You'd need a really bright pj to go darker. But a lot of the newer ones are probably bright enough.

**thewire** · **05-05-09, 10:09 PM**

A nice 3-4 chip DLP with a quality lens or most of the newer LCD projectors + 1400 lumens with + 80% uniform brightness and 1000 lumens calibrated would throw a pretty good image on a darker screen. It's pretty slim on finding those right now I think. Most will be in the budget range of +20K and be something like a christie projector where they are going +3000 lumens but those will torch our smaller screens.

**kermyb123** · **05-05-09, 10:20 PM**

Well I ask only because I have taken down my screen to do some work. And in my black out room on my dark brown walls I am ver impressed with the blacks. Whites aren't too bad either. I may have to play with my AAA mix by adding some black in order to darken up the color.

Any specific suggestions on product to do this... Folk Art???

**thewire** · **05-05-09, 10:26 PM**

A brown wall is about right but that will result in the red being off some but I have also heard it will not.

Then there is the surface of the wall coming into play. How far are you from the screen and what size is it?

**kermyb123** · **05-06-09, 08:55 AM**

Yeah, wall is smooth. As for the brown - Yeah reds would be a problem. I just realized the black levels from my HD65 on such a dark wall were just awesome. I will work off my of BW mix working it darker with some black.

**clark17** · **05-06-09, 12:19 PM**

Quote:

kermyb123 wrote:

Yeah, wall is smooth. As for the brown - Yeah reds would be a problem. I just realized the black levels from my HD65 on such a dark wall were just awesome. I will work off my of BW mix working it darker with some black.

I do own HD65 and IMHO I find original BW ~N7.5 a little too dark. I could be wrong but I don't think HD65 has enough juice to be able to drive N6 screen based screen.

Based on my personal limited testing on a small piece of cardboard hanged on my living room's wall, I find the new Scroprion N8 mix perfect combination (for blacker blacks without compramising whites/colors too much

. Another thing that might help a little black levels (according to many users) is to build the frame wrapped in black velvet.

**Harpmaker** · **05-09-09, 03:08 PM**

Hi folks,

Just got back from a visit to my old stomping grounds (MI) and it's going to take me a while to get up to speed again on DIY screen stuff.

As for making a N6 screen mix, very early testing leads me to think that such a mix would be an off-shoot from the Scorpion mixes and use both AAA-F and CSMS as the reflective ingredients, or perhaps just the CSMS alone.

I did do a bit of testing along this line about a year ago, but the results of those tests are buried somewhere in my aging memory and some old PM's that are almost impossible to search through.

No single black paint I have found is neutral. I did get a very neutral black by mixing Craft Smart Black and Premiere Mars Black 1:1. The Premiere (I'm leaving out an accent mark on the last "e") paints can be found at A. C. Moore craft stores, and perhaps a few others. I don't remember ever seeing them at Micheal's. They can be had from the 'net at http://www.fineartstore.com/Catalog/...ost%2cUnitCost

I too am interested in a darker screen since my PJ doesn't do blacks well at all. I think I can do this because my PJ (Viewsonic PJ503D) is bright, and due to various physical screen location limitations my screen is relatively small (still playing with sizes, but the largest would be 75" diag.).

**clark17** · **05-13-09, 12:30 PM**

So still no screenshots?

**Richum** · **06-17-09, 08:17 AM**

Quote:

clark17 wrote:

So still no screenshots?

What's happened to the Beta Testers? I have been waiting hoping to hear some very positive reports.

**mechman** · **06-17-09, 10:00 AM**

No one ever posted screen shots.

I figured that sooner or later I'd have to do it. I know that bidzer is using it and likes it. I know there are several others using one of the two but I've heard from no one.

Someday I'll spray some large panels I guess.

Lately I've been busy building cabinets and shelves.

**Richum** · **06-17-09, 10:57 AM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

No one ever posted screen shots.

I figured that sooner or later I'd have to do it. I know that bidzer is using it and likes it. I know there are several others using one of the two but I've heard from no one.

Someday I'll spray some large panels I guess.

Lately I've been busy building cabinets and shelves.

I understand, I am working on my house doing the left over repairs from Hurricane IKE. I estimate it will be early winter here before I will find enough spare time to shoot a screen (unless another hurricane center punches my area). Apparently everyone else is just as busy as we are.

**clark17** · **07-30-09, 09:59 AM**

Quote:

Richum wrote:

I understand, I am working on my house doing the left over repairs from Hurricane IKE. I estimate it will be early winter here before I will find enough spare time to shoot a screen (unless another hurricane center punches my area). Apparently everyone else is just as busy as we are.

I guess I'm about 2 months away

with my basement, before new NHL season starts

. Currently I'm working on insultation, then it will be a drywall (installation/taping/sanding), finish electrical, paint, do the subfloor, install laminate floor, install doors, finish bathroom.....

then work on my DIY screen ... Once it is all done I'll post some pictures

I bet Mech will be the first one to post some pictures....

BTW... some of the 'extra' paint I had for Scorpion paint dried up in a plastic container, so as a result I'll go with N8 version

**mechman** · **07-30-09, 04:05 PM**

Quote:

clark17 wrote:

I bet Mech will be the first one to post some pictures....

It's looking like that's the way it will be...

Although I know of several folks using it already.

**xflapx** · **07-30-09, 04:19 PM**

I will have mine up and running by the 8th at the latest. My roommate has a really nice nikon camera so i'll be sure to post some pictures at that time.

**mechman** · **07-30-09, 06:00 PM**

It'll be close than! I intend to do it when the kids are gone to the cabin next week.

**clark17** · **07-31-09, 08:12 AM**

I wish I could say I'll beat you guys

I should better get on it...

Unless, Mech what do you think about rolling 2 coats of Scorpion N8 onto (or into) Roxul insulation?

Quote:

xflapx wrote:

I will have mine up and running by the 8th at the latest. My roommate has a really nice nikon camera so i'll be sure to post some pictures at that time.

Quote:

mechman wrote:

It'll be close than! I intend to do it when the kids are gone to the cabin next week.

Advertisement