Help/Advice With BW Screen!

**staindrocks** · **02-10-09, 12:34 AM**

Ok, so i just recently found a really good deal on a BenQ W5000 and went ahead and ordered it. It's supposed to arrive by the end of the week. I decided that my family room wouldn't do, so i started construction on a new HT room. I've just completed construction to the point where i'm ready to start painting the room, as well as the screen(on wall). The rooms dimensions are 20' x 9'3", and it will be a completely light controlled dedicated HT. I'd like to have a 110" Black Widow 16x9 screen. I was thinking of painting the entire room in flat black. But now i'm thinking about maybe painting the side walls and ceiling in flat black, and then paint the front projection wall and back wall in a medium to dark gray. The main reason for this change would be to give the room a little contrast/life, and also to give the screens black framing more of a pop when the lights are on. Will this hinder the performance of the projectors picture quality in any way? I've also been reading up a good bit on the Black Widow DIY screen, and i'm fascinated by it. I've already ordered and received the AAA-F(16oz, just in case), and just need to get over to Lowes to get the Kilz2 and Bermuda Beige. I've read, multiple times, that it's best to see the projector with a white screen(Kilz2) first, to calibrate it and see what i can do on a white screen. But here's the thing, i'm very impatient. And i've borrowed my brothers sprayer for all the painting, but he told me that there's quite a bit of over-spray. So i'm thinking that i need to spray my screen first, then completely cover it up, and then paint the walls/ceiling of my room. I'm thinking that it would be easier to cover the painted screen then it would be to cover the entire front half of the room(walls and ceiling). Since that's the case, i'd like to go ahead and start painting the screen, so i can then paint the rest of the room and get the carpet and furniture in the room. I'd ideally like to have the room as close to finished as possible by the time my projector gets here, so all i'd have to do is mount the projector and enjoy. If i wait until i get my projector before i start painting, then it'll be at least a few more weeks before i can enjoy my new toy! So here's my question...do any of you have the BenQ W5000 or a projector with similar specs, who have done a BW screen with it. Or could you guys tell me whether or not the BenQ W5000 would benefit from the BW screen in my setup. I know it can somewhat depend on the person, and what that person considers important/not important when talking about PQ. But i can tell you that, for me...i like an image that really POPS, with great contrast and 3-dimensionality, vivid colors and deep blacks...that's the best i can describe what i'm looking for in image quality. So, i'd love to here from some of the experts! Any suggestions, advice, and/or answers would be greatly appreciated!

**mechman** · **02-10-09, 08:04 PM**

Christopher,

With BW, painting the walls flat black isn't really a necessity. You could go with a lighter color if you wish. The purpose of flat black on the walls/ceilings around the screen was to absorb the reflected light from the screen so that it doesn't reflect back in a negative way and wash out the screen. Maybe do the mid to dark gray on all of the walls.

The Benq has more than enough lumens for BW - 14fL for a 110" screen with the pj mounted 16' back. If you move the pj 6 inches closer you can bump this up to 15fL.

Your brother must have borrowed you a conventional spray gun for a compressor. I'm unaware if anyone has ever tried it with a conventional spray gun. I don't think there will be any problems though.

As for the painting of the screen before the rest of the room, the only thing I can recommend is that you wait for the screen to fully dry/cure before taping it off. That way you run less of a risk of peeling off paint with the masking tape.

Quote:

But i can tell you that, for me...i like an image that really POPS, with great contrast and 3-dimensionality, vivid colors and deep blacks...that's the best i can describe what i'm looking for in image quality.

There's absolutely no reason you wouldn't like it then.

Sorry for the delayed response.

And welcome to the Shack!

**Harpmaker** · **02-10-09, 08:38 PM**

It would really help to know the make and model of the sprayer you are going to use. Is it air powered (needs a separate air compressor) or electric?

While I have never tried it, I would think that shooting latex paint through a standard conventional spray gun would be a nightmare - if it is even doable. They are designed for spraying very thin liquids.

I strongly recommend renting or buying an HVLP gun. We know they work well with latex paint and they don't have a lot of overspray.

**mechman** · **02-10-09, 10:21 PM**

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

It would really help to know the make and model of the sprayer you are going to use. Is it air powered (needs a separate air compressor) or electric?

Excellent point Harp. I assumed it was a compressor model when more than likely it'd be something more along the lines of an electric Wagner. I think an electric Wagner would work fine. But there would be a lot of over spray.

**custard** · **02-11-09, 10:20 AM**

sorry to hijack the thread but can you guys elaborate on the problems with using an electrically powered hvlp gun? as i am looking at buying one in the near future.

something like this:

**Harpmaker** · **02-11-09, 12:12 PM**

Custy, in the States we call that type of sprayer a "Turbine HVLP" and it is different than the electric Wagner guns. Turbine guns work in a similar way to compressor-based guns, the difference is that instead of the gun being hooked to an air compressor by a thin hose it is attached to a high speed fan (the turbine) by a large diameter hose. This works because of what HVLP stands for (High Volume Low Pressure).

While I have never used a turbine model sprayer, my understanding is they work just fine. The only "problem" I have heard is that after awhile the air coming out of the turbine fan gets a bit warm. I don't see this as hurting latex paint at all, it could even be a good thing.

**staindrocks** · **02-11-09, 06:36 PM**

Hey guys, thanks for the response. I was wondering about that very question, of whether i can paint the screen with the kind of spray gun i have. I do know that my brother used it to paint every room of his house that he just built, and he said that it's extremely powerful and with a lot of over-spray(he said to be prepared for the paint "cloud"). The owners manual actually says to be careful not to spray yourself with it, because it's powerful enough to inject the paint underneath your skin.

Here's the make/model:
SprayTech "Apex Series" Model 1420 - Piston Pump Paint Sprayer

And yes, it is electric. I've already gone way over budget on my HT project, so i was hoping to not have to buy a new sprayer(especially since this is the only thing i'll ever use it for). I'm afraid of rolling it because i've never painted anything in my life(although, the same is true for spraying), and i'm concerned that i'll leave roller marks or bubbles/bright spots. I just figured that spraying would be easier for a beginner, but i could be wrong about that, also. Mechman, my thinking about going with flat black(particularly on the side walls), is because i'm concerned about the width of my screen(96") being so close to the walls since my room is only 111" wide. You don't think i have to worry about any light reflecting off the walls and washing out my picture? I actually wanted to go 120", but that puts the screen width out to 105", which would only leave me 3" between each side of the screen and the wall. And just to let you know, my main goal is to have the best image i can possibly have, no matter what needs to be sacrificed. So basically, i want the room to look as nice as possible, but not to the extent where i have to compromise the picture quality. So any advice and/or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

EDIT: I did just do a search on the make/model of my spray gun, and it does say it can spray latex paints. Here's a short copy and paste:

Made For:
Homeowners
Serious DIYer's
Part-time Contractors
Property Managers

Spray Materials:
All Latex Paints
All Oil-Based paints
Lacquers
Stains
Sealers

The SprayTech 1420 is for handymen or serious DIYer's who require spraying capacity and performance. This unit compares to the Titan XT250 and the Wagner 9140. This is the new style version of the SprayTech Apex series with a more ergonomic handle and more rugged feel.

**Harpmaker** · **02-12-09, 01:13 AM**

I just did a search and found this - http://toolsmartusa.com/wagner-spray...nditi1420.html

It seems SprayTech may be a sub-brand of Wagner.

If this is the sprayer you have Christopher, I have serious doubts about it being suitable for painting a screen. Room walls, yes, but for a screen I think you will need more control than this will give you. It would also waste a LOT of paint due to overspray and bounce-back (that "paint cloud").

This sprayer has a tube that fits directly into a 1 or 5 gallon paint can. I don't think it would work will with quarts.

And yes, this sprayer is dangerous! If you get a body part in the way of the spray anywhere near the spraying tip paint will be injected INTO that body part!

I know you are wanting, or needing, to save money Christopher, but if this is the sprayer you have it may be like trying to crack peanut shells with a 20 pound sledge hammer. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will take practice and finesse.

Perhaps I'm overestimating the power of this sprayer, but the specs say it operates at 2800 PSI and will spray a gallon of paint in 4 minutes.

**robert_1967** · **02-12-09, 06:22 AM**

I cant help my self

but just do the Mr Bean trick. A large bucket of paint some serous fire cracker...BOOOM..all done

Seriously though, all this trouble you are going through to purchase a sprayer etc....I belive you will get more "bang for the money" by paying a pro with pro equipment to do it for you.

Unless you plan to manufacture several screens that is...

**Harpmaker** · **02-12-09, 12:56 PM**

Quote:

robert_1967 wrote:

Seriously though, all this trouble you are going through to purchase a sprayer etc....I belive you will get more "bang for the money" by paying a pro with pro equipment to do it for you.

Unless you plan to manufacture several screens that is...

Not in the US. It's way cheaper to paint yourself, even if you have to buy a spray gun to do the job.

**staindrocks** · **02-12-09, 06:50 PM**

Yes Harp, that's the sprayer i have. That's what i was afraid of, that it's just too heavy duty for the delicate job of shooting a screen. I just went out and bought $120.00 worth of paint and primer today, and that broke the bank. Of course, tomorrow is Friday, so i guess it's feasible to go get the Wagner to shoot the screen. What's the best budget Wagner that will do a nice job? Man, i still need to get carpet, materials for DIY pj mount, trim for screen border, masking panels. It's really starting to wear me out! I remember not long ago, before taking on this HT build(my first), i was laughing at people dropping $5000-$10000 on a HT build. I thought they were spending just to spend! Well, i'm not laughing anymore. I'm nearing the $4000 mark, and considering i had set my budget at $2500, and started with only half that amount...i'm going way over-budget!
So yeah, i could probably just take the same attitude i've taken to get to this point and say the with it, it's only $50-$70 more. What's that compared to the $4000 i've already spent. Sadly, though, that's the exact same thing i said for the last 4-5 purchases. Everybody close to me are starting to give me that look, like they think i'm going slightly insane! So, i'll probably go buy the Wagner tomorrow. Let me know about what model i should get?

Oh yeah, so do you think the sprayer i have now will be ok for spraying the rest of the room? If so, what should i paint first, the screen or the room?

**Harpmaker** · **02-12-09, 07:48 PM**

If you are going the electric sprayer route, the only one I can recommend is the Wagner CS (Control Spray). Mech has one and speaks very highly of it. They are something like $70 at Home Depot and Lowe's, but many times they are on sale - and those stores honor the others sale prices if you bring in proof of the sale price (even internet sales).

I just checked and you are in luck!!! The Wagner CS in on sale at HD for $49.00! Just print out the web page and take it to HD or Lowe's and they will match that price.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100371397

As for using your current sprayer for the rest of the stuff other than the screen - I have never used one, but it would probably work well. You will HAVE to wear a respirator and not just a dust mask with that thing, but I recommend one even when using the HVLP as well. It's $29.97 well spent. I made the mistake of NOT using mine when I sprayed my first screen and spent a very uncomfortable 8 hours with breathing difficulty after I was finished. Learn from my mistake!
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100653900

Goggles to cover your eyes would be a good thing too for using that airless sprayer.

Since there is so much overspray and bounce-back from that airless sprayer, I think I would use that first to spray your walls and then use the Wagner CS to spray the screen.

**staindrocks** · **02-12-09, 07:55 PM**

Will it matter if i'm painting the screen over grey tinted primer and paint? Will a single coat of white primer sprayed over the top of this be enough to begin spraying my BW mix? I really have done a lot of searching between here and avsforums, but i'm having a hard time finding specific instructions on spraying a BW screen. Could you guys suggest the correct procedure for me to follow, or can you point me to a link that contains the instructions i'm seeking? Thanks!

Oh, this is a little off topic, but i wanted to get you guys to give me your thoughts on purchasing a refurbished pj. I guess it's kind of a moot point, since i already ordered one, but maybe it would help me figure out whether i should fork over the dollars for a third-party warranty. It's a refurb Benq w5000(upgraded to latest fw-v2.01) purchased from Benq USA for $1380 shipped. It comes with a standard BenQ 1-yr warranty. Because the price was so much lower than anything i've seen for such a highly rated 1080p pj, I really jumped in and bought it without really thinking about the risks of buying a refurb? Any thoughts?

**Harpmaker** · **02-12-09, 10:14 PM**

I'm not sure I'm following you... do you mean you want to spray a single coat of white primer over the newly painted gray wall as the base for the screen? If so, the answer would probably be yes (depending on the white primer used - Kilz Premium might do it in a single coat), but I don't think you understand spraying as opposed to rolling. When you roll paint it goes on in a contiguous 'sheet' covering the area rolled; when you spray you almost never (in my experience) get a 'sheet', but rather a lot of small dots of paint hitting the screen that may or may not flow into each other. In my experience, it takes at least two "coats" of sprayed paint to equal one rolled coat. The advantage of spraying (with HVLP, don't know about airless) is that the coats are thinner so they dry much faster than a rolled coat.

We really need to get a Spraying How-To made up... until then, check out this post:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...3-post119.html

As for buying a refurbished PJ (or anything else); I've had good luck and bad luck with refurbs. The key is the return policy and, especially, the warranty you get. Most refurbs come with a 90 day warranty or less - that stinks. You are getting a 1 year warranty so that is better, but be sure to check out what is covered and for how long. If the bulb wouldn't be covered, or only for a short time, that would be bad. In the case of my own PJ, when the bulb goes it's time for a new PJ.

**staindrocks** · **02-13-09, 08:12 AM**

Thanks for the info, Harp! I have no experience painting anything, so that link should be very helpful.

**staindrocks** · **02-14-09, 02:14 PM**

So i just sprayed my screen, and the bottom is messed up. The whole screen looks great, except the bottom 10-12". It looks like the paint built up and ran, and it looks like a darker shade gray where this happened. It's kinda hard to explain, so i'll just add some pics. What can i do about this? Is there any way to sand out the bottom portion, then hit it with another coat of BW mix? Or do i have to go get more white primer and start over? Please help, i'm so frustrated right now!

**mechman** · **02-14-09, 04:36 PM**

Those dark areas are the aluminum. If the paint runs, the aluminum tends to gather there. Here's a shot of an experimental topcoat I applied with a PreVal sprayer:

Kind of the same thing.

You definitely have to sand that out of there and re-apply. My guess is that commercial airless spray gun was putting it down way too heavy. Is this correct? Might want to switch to a roller, a hvlp gun, or paint some walls in the basement with the airless so you get the hang of it before painting the screen again.

How was the over spray? How much mix did you go through? How many coats?

**Quantum** · **02-14-09, 05:12 PM**

Ya, it looks like he put on one heavy, rather than two light.

**staindrocks** · **02-14-09, 06:09 PM**

Well, when i took my first pass with it, i didn't realize how fast it was putting it on. And when i say my first pass, i mean the first horizontal stroke across the bottom. After that, i basically ran with the thing from one side to the other, and it actually did a real nice, smooth coat. I think i have enough to start completely over with the prime coat first, and then the bw mix. Mech, to answer your question, i mixed up a 16 oz AAA bottle with 64 oz Bermuda Biege. And i used approx 1/2 of the mix. So it has the right amount of paint on it, i just messed up my very first swipe i took. If i do re-prime and spray again, should i sand first? I thought that i read somewhere that you shouldn't sand because it will leave little scratches. What's the best way to proceed?

**mechman** · **02-14-09, 06:25 PM**

Quote:

staindrocks wrote:

Well, when i took my first pass with it, i didn't realize how fast it was putting it on. And when i say my first pass, i mean the first horizontal stroke across the bottom. After that, i basically ran with the thing from one side to the other, and it actually did a real nice, smooth coat. I think i have enough to start completely over with the prime coat first, and then the bw mix. Mech, to answer your question, i mixed up a 16 oz AAA bottle with 64 oz Bermuda Biege. And i used approx 1/2 of the mix. So it has the right amount of paint on it, i just messed up my very first swipe i took. If i do re-prime and spray again, should i sand first? I thought that i read somewhere that you shouldn't sand because it will leave little scratches. What's the best way to proceed?

If you're going to re-prime you don't need to sand - as long as those little runs aren't bumps. Otherwise sand it with a fine grit sandpaper and re-paint. That sprayer must really kick out the paint! With my hvlp gun (not the Wagner), I used about 36 oz of paint for a total of 8 coats.

Practice some before you try it again. Prime your walls or something first. Make sure you're certain you can do it otherwise you'd be better off rolling it.

**Harpmaker** · **02-14-09, 06:35 PM**

There may be a way to repair this, but I have never run into this problem so I can be of little (read no) help here.

My gut tells me to re-prime the whole screen and do it over; when you start sanding things you can get a difference in texture from one area of the screen to another - and that's a whole other problem to deal with. You want to have as even a texture over the whole screen as possible.

Keep in mind that coats that are too light are fine, it simply takes more of them. A single coat, or even a single pass, that runs... well, that's what happened here.

**staindrocks** · **02-14-09, 07:11 PM**

Sorry, but i don't think i explained the whole process. I actually did put on more than one coat, i actually put on 3 coats. But the bottom stroke of my very first coat was the one put on too heavy. I thought if i let it dry then go ahead and add another coat it would cover the dark spot up. Anyways, 3 coats later i decided to stop and contact you guys. I wanted to make sure i had enough BW mix left to start over if that's what i should do. But it does put on the paint...i believe in the owners manual it states .25 gallons/minute. On a side note, i also don't think i got enough primer on the wall before i applied the BW mix coat. I didn't have very much, and i was trying to get by without having to go and buy more. But today i went and bought 1 gallon of Kilz Premium, so that won't be an issue anymore.

Harp, the entire screen area still seems pretty smooth to the touch. No real noticeable lumps or anything where it ran. But if i get down underneath the bottom and look up at the screen with the light reflecting off of it, it looks a little bumpy were the paint ran. So i might have a different texture whether i sand or not. I don't know what i should do? Will the new layers of primer help even this out a little bit?

**Harpmaker** · **02-14-09, 07:44 PM**

Quote:

staindrocks wrote:

Harp, the entire screen area still seems pretty smooth to the touch. No real noticeable lumps or anything where it ran. But if i get down underneath the bottom and look up at the screen with the light reflecting off of it, it looks a little bumpy were the paint ran. So i might have a different texture whether i sand or not. I don't know what i should do? Will the new layers of primer help even this out a little bit?

In my experience, not really. It depends on how uneven the area really is. I would lightly sand the affected area with a 220 grit sanding sponge before I re-primed (or regular 220 grit sandpaper and a sanding block). The idea is to get the raised areas of the runs back down to the level of the rest of the wall surface. Be careful not to sand too hard or too much or you will create little valleys in the wall. I don't mean to scare you into not sanding, just don't go at it like you're removing rust from an old hammer.

Also, the paint should be dry before you sand.

Just take it slow and easy and everything will be fine.

**staindrocks** · **02-14-09, 08:04 PM**

Thanks for the help, guys! This is being painted on a new wall that i just constructed, so i have plenty of experience sanding(the joints). I know that i could get the joints as smooth as ice, but wasn't sure how sanding paint turned out. I'll hit it lightly with the 220 grit, and see what it feels like. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks again!

Also, i've heard some people talk about flock tape. Do any of you know of a local store that carries it, or is it something you have to order online? I bought a piece of fabric a few yrs ago, and i'm under the impression that it's velvet(that's what it feels like), but i'm not sure. Are there different kinds of velvet you can get...i mean, does all velvet have the same light absorbtion qualities? The piece i have seems to have a sheen to it, and on the back side of it(opposite the velvet side), it's has a smooth, slick, maybe nylon surface? Is this the same thing as i'd get with the flock tape?

**staindrocks** · **02-14-09, 09:42 PM**

Actually, after going back into the HT room and rubbing my hand up and down the painted screen surface, i found that there was no discernible difference in the feel of the lower part(dark streak) versus the upper part of the screen. It feels smooth over the entire area of the screen. So i decided to fore-go the sanding, and start the primer coat. I've sprayed two primer coats, horizontally, across the screen. But i can still see the grey coming thru in spots, so it still needs more coats. Harp, what is your spray technique...what i mean is, do you spray with horizontal strokes, or vertical, or both. If both, do you just alternate between the two? Because right now, with two coats sprayed horizontally, you can tell i sprayed that way because the grey coming thru shows up horizontally across the whole screen. If i just keep on spraying the same way, will the primer eventually fill in to a point where you won't be able to tell(i.e. spray pattern disappears)?

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