Is this the correct BW mix?

**entropy** · **03-21-09, 03:30 PM**

I've never purchased tinted paint before so I'm rather clueless in that regard. I asked the lady at Lowe's for Valspar flat base tinted to create Bermuda Beige. She did not have Bermuda Beige in her system for Valspar but did find it under Olympic. She kindly mixed it and left me wondering if this is what I really needed for Black Widow.

Also upon comparing the 2 can labels, the specs are different from the image in the Black Widow PFG sticky thread. http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ack-widow.html

Attached is a pic of the can I have. Did I get the wrong paint or is what I have the same or close enough?

Name: valspar.jpg
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Name: valspar.jpg
Views: 213
Size: 29.1 KB

Thanks for your help.
Entropy

btw, great forum!

**mechman** · **03-21-09, 04:35 PM**

Entropy,

There are a number of ways that a paint store can get to Bermuda Beige. One of the factors is the base used. As long as the clerk typed in the correct base - you were at Lowes it's certain to be correct as they scan the can

- than the computer will figure out the proper tints to make BB.

The difference in bases is basically just how much room is left over for tint. I'd guess everything is fine with your BB!

**entropy** · **03-21-09, 04:50 PM**

Thats just it. Nothing came up in the system under Valspar. What struck me odd is that she said that this isn't something they would normally do. Maybe I should go back and use Olympic base, since that is what they do have.

Thanks!

**Harpmaker** · **03-21-09, 08:11 PM**

Hi entropy,

Welcome to the Shack!

It sounds to me like you may have the wrong color. The problem is that there are several brands of paint that offer a color called "Bermuda Beige". The one you want is PPG Bermuda Beige. Now I think (but could be wrong) that PPG also makes the Olympic brand of paint, so perhaps it really is the same color; but everytime I have gotten a can of Valspar Ultra Premium in BB it has always had "PPG Bermuda Beige" as the matching color on the label. Bermuda Beige is not a Valspar color.

Could you give us the tint formula for your can of paint? It would look something like:
104 3.5
107 2.5
109 0.5

The first 3-digit number is a color code (no, I don't know what they are

) and the other number is the amount of that color added.

**entropy** · **03-21-09, 08:57 PM**

Seems not asking for PPG is probably where I went wrong. Thanks for clearing that up.

It shows to be

107-2
104-3
105-5

**wbassett** · **03-21-09, 11:18 PM**

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

Hi entropy,

Welcome to the Shack!

It sounds to me like you may have the wrong color. The problem is that there are several brands of paint that offer a color called "Bermuda Beige". The one you want is PPG Bermuda Beige. Now I think (but could be wrong) that PPG also makes the Olympic brand of paint, so perhaps it really is the same color; but everytime I have gotten a can of Valspar Ultra Premium in BB it has always had "PPG Bermuda Beige" as the matching color on the label. Bermuda Beige is not a Valspar color.

Could you give us the tint formula for your can of paint? It would look something like:
104 3.5
107 2.5
109 0.5

The first 3-digit number is a color code (no, I don't know what they are

) and the other number is the amount of that color added.

I have to concur with Harp. It could be the right color, but it also could be an Olympic color that is totally different.

I just got a gallon of Valspar Flat Enamel tinted to Bermuda Beige and the guy pulled it right up, but you need to tell them it's a Pittsburgh Paint color... PPG - The Voice of Color Bermuda Beige (427-2) and they can mix it in Valspar Flat Enamel no problem at all.

You can call and tell them it's PPG 427-2 and have them check of the Olympic color is the same, if so you're fine. If it's not, as long as you didn't open and use it you should be able to return it and tell them they mixed the wrong color and tell them it was supposed to be PPG 427-2.

**mrkln** · **04-21-09, 10:34 AM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

I have to concur with Harp. It could be the right color, but it also could be an Olympic color that is totally different.

I just got a gallon of Valspar Flat Enamel tinted to Bermuda Beige and the guy pulled it right up, but you need to tell them it's a Pittsburgh Paint color... PPG - The Voice of Color Bermuda Beige (427-2) and they can mix it in Valspar Flat Enamel no problem at all.

You can call and tell them it's PPG 427-2 and have them check of the Olympic color is the same, if so you're fine. If it's not, as long as you didn't open and use it you should be able to return it and tell them they mixed the wrong color and tell them it was supposed to be PPG 427-2.

I just got a gallon of Bermuda Beige in Valspar Flat Enamel and they mixed it up as the following...

101-5
107-11.5
109-7.5

Is this the correct color. I am searching for some other pictures of Bermuda Beige but it sure looks really pink to me.

**Harpmaker** · **04-21-09, 12:28 PM**

Hi Cory,

A number of things, such as the base used (1, 2 or 4; and even the version of their color-matching software) can affect what formula Lowe's uses to make PPG Bermuda Beige, so there are a number of ways to do so. I'll check your formula when I get out to my shop.

Does the label on the can say "PPG Bermuda Beige" anywhere?

Here is a swatch of the correct color to check against.

PPG-Bermuda Beige 427-2

**mrkln** · **04-21-09, 01:12 PM**

No. The can does not say a color on it anywhere. The guy behind the counter was so kind as to write that he used Valspar flat enamel UPW even though it says it right on the front of the can. I did not paint a swatch yet to see what it looks like but the paint dot on the lid of the can definitely has a pink tint to it. From some research it does appear that other Bermuda Beige users are noting a pink tint until the AAA is added. After the AAA is added the mix becomes neutral. When I get home tonight I'll get a piece primed and painted Bermuda Beige to see what it looks like.

Thanks for the help Harp. I'd still be curious to see what your can says.

**Harpmaker** · **04-21-09, 05:46 PM**

The fact that your can doesn't have a tint label on it doesn't necessarily mean it is not the right color, but it ain't a good sign. Every time I have gotten custom tints at Lowe's or Home Depot they have included the tint formula, and name of the matching paint color, on a label that they put right on the can. On the few occasions when I simply had them tint a quart of paint for me from a tint code I developed myself the label they put on the can has the tint code and the words "Manual Dispense" on it.

Cory, just going from memory, your tint formula sounds like it may be correct, but I don't trust my memory 100% in such situations. I'll check it out this evening.

I think I remember mech getting a gallon of BB in Valspar; that code info should be on the forum somewhere.

Honestly folks, I am trying to get these various formulae together, and when I do I'll put them in their own thread so this stuff can be easier to find. There are only so many hours in the day and this month has been a busy one! My apologizes.

**mrkln** · **04-21-09, 06:47 PM**

If it matters, which I believe that it does, the base of my gallon is "flat enamel ultra white 213484". Does it really matter which base you start with as long as they tint it appropriately?

**mechman** · **04-21-09, 09:04 PM**

Quote:

mrkln wrote:

I just got a gallon of Bermuda Beige in Valspar Flat Enamel and they mixed it up as the following...

101-5
107-11.5
109-7.5

Is this the correct color. I am searching for some other pictures of Bermuda Beige but it sure looks really pink to me.

101 - 5.5
107 - 13.5
109 - 7

But like I've said before, there are different ways for the machine to get to Bermuda Beige. It is a bit confusing that the can does not include the name though.

**mechman** · **04-21-09, 09:07 PM**

Quote:

mrkln wrote:

If it matters, which I believe that it does, the base of my gallon is "flat enamel ultra white 213484". Does it really matter which base you start with as long as they tint it appropriately?

Is that Valspar Ultra Premium Flat Enamel? My number for VUPE is 210159. They may have went with a base that has a touch less paint in it.

**Harpmaker** · **04-21-09, 09:10 PM**

Quote:

mrkln wrote:

If it matters, which I believe that it does, the base of my gallon is "flat enamel ultra white 213484". Does it really matter which base you start with as long as they tint it appropriately?

You are right; when we talk about bases we usually mean, but don't say, base TYPE; and yes, it does matter. All that matters from the users point of view is getting the flat enamel and not the regular flat latex. The enamel has a bit of sheen to it (but less than an "eggshell") making it a better screen paint; it also is supposed to be more cleanable.

The base NUMBER (1, 2 or 4 in Valspar paints) is usually determined by the shade of the tint; the darker the shade of the final color, the higher the number base is used. In the Valspar paints the only difference between the base numbers is how much white paint is in the can; the darker the final color is the more tint must be added to the can to make the color so the highest Valspar base number, which is 4, only has 29 fluid ounces of white paint in it per "quart", which leaves room for 3 fluid ounces of tint per quart - that is a LOT of tint!

To put this in perspective, your listed formula calls for 5/48th fluid ounce of color 101, 11.5/48th fluid ounce of color 107 and 7.5/48th fluid ounce of color 109. That all totals to 24/48th fluid ounce of tint, which equals 1/2 of a fluid ounce - and this is for a gallon of paint!

I recently found out that if the store is out of the base the computer is calling for they simply substitute a can of a base of a higher number (less paint in the can) and the computer changes the formula to compensate.

Sorry if that was a bit of over-share on my part; most of the above info is probably only of interest to those of us crazy enough to do this DIY screen stuff for a hobby!

**Harpmaker** · **04-21-09, 09:21 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

Is that Valspar Ultra Premium Flat Enamel? My number for VUPE is 210159. They may have went with a base that has a touch less paint in it.

I just checked those stock numbers at Lowe's website and Cory's is for a gallon of Valspar enamel and yours is for a gallon of Valspar enamel base 1. I guess his store thought they could squeeze an extra half ounce of tint in the can. That could account for the slightly different tint formula as well.

Oops! I just noticed that Cory's gallon has less tint than yours, and the can had more white paint in it. That doesn't compute.

**Harpmaker** · **04-21-09, 11:01 PM**

Well... I just got the formulae from my two quarts of Valspar BB and the situation just gets cloudier.
On the Delta E charts, mech's BB is on the left and my BB in on the right.

The first quart I got was in regular Valspar flat latex and is:
104 3.5
107 2.5
109 0.5

RGB 227, 209, 199.

My second quart is in Valspar enamel and is:
101 1.25
107 1.875
109 1.625

RGB 229, 206, 194.

There was some screw-up in the label as to gallon or quart, so the proper amounts may be 4 times those printed. This should be for a gallon and works out to:

101 5
107 7.5
109 6.5

There seems to be a whale of a lot of color variance here.

BTW, these were two separate Lowe's stores about 40 miles apart.

**mrkln** · **04-21-09, 11:31 PM**

So what would be your recommendation at this point? Any ideas? I really hate to waste my AAA if it is going to turn out funky. Or do you think that I'm close enough that it will work ok?

**Harpmaker** · **04-22-09, 12:10 AM**

Quote:

mrkln wrote:

So what would be your recommendation at this point? Any ideas? I really hate to waste my AAA if it is going to turn out funky. Or do you think that I'm close enough that it will work ok?

To be on the safe side, you could simply spread a bit of the paint in question on some white cardboard (like an index card) and send the sample to me or mech to test with our spectrophotometers. We only need a 1/2" round or square sample to test. Something like in the photo below. Be sure the paint is on thick enough so the cardboard can't be seen through it. After the sample is try (a good 24 hours) lightly wrap it in a white paper towel and pop it in a standard envelope. PM one or both of us for our address if you're interested.

**mrkln** · **04-23-09, 09:47 PM**

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

To be on the safe side, you could simply spread a bit of the paint in question on some white cardboard (like an index card) and send the sample to me or mech to test with our spectrophotometers.

Harpmaker, you have a PM. I really appreciate you helping me out.

**kermyb123** · **04-25-09, 10:20 AM**

Not to seem lazy here, but...

I have my AAA fine #4101
I have my BB gallon mixed from VUPFE tinted to 101-5.5, 107-13.5, 109-7

My only question is what ratio! I have been jumping from here to AVS and i see a lot of differnt numbers. Any input? My room is completely light controlled.

Thanks

**wbassett** · **04-25-09, 11:37 AM**

You really shouldn't be seeing lots of different numbers. One things we strive to do is once an application is presented... it doesn't change!

To answer your question though, it's 4:1- The easiest way is to get a larger mixing pail at Lowes or Home Depot. Pour a quart of Bermudia Beige in the pail, then add your 8ounces of AAA-F and mix everything up real good. I use a drill with a mixer attachments.

You may have seen threads were other people were playing around with things, that may be were you were seeing different numbers, but Black Widow has always been a 4:1 ration.

**Harpmaker** · **04-25-09, 04:44 PM**

The Black Widow mix using Bermuda Beige and AAA-fine has always been 4:1 BB/AAA-F.

There were some early formulae using a different aluminum paint that had other ratios, but that aluminum paint is no longer advised to make BW, it also didn't use Bermuda Beige as a base paint for the mix.

There is confusion at AVS over Black Widow since mech can't edit the BW thread there. Only mech's BW thread there contains official BW data.

**kermyb123** · **04-26-09, 03:43 PM**

FYI - Lowes can no longer use PPG color names (so I am told) they will mix the paint using the formula mentioned on a differnt thread. I was told that it has somthing to do with Olympic? I guess some one has bought out some one else? I was asked if I worked for a company that paints cars with PPG products.

Just figured I would throw that out incase anyone has issues getting lowes to make PPG Bermuda Beige in the enamel flat.

**wbassett** · **04-26-09, 04:41 PM**

I'll check on this tomorrow. I can say I just got some more Bermudia Beige and had no trouble getting it. The very next day I went in and the girl working the counter told me she could only do Olympic or Valspar colors or color match from their spectro. I know this isn't true so I waited for the regular person to come back and they pulled it right up on their computer.

Like I said, I'll double check this but I don't think this is true but it's worth verifying.

**kermyb123** · **04-26-09, 06:03 PM**

It was my experience from today. I worked paint as a teen and never was unable to look up paint color by other company and match it. It was odd, she and he offered to use the spectro to match whatever I needed. I ended up bringing in the 101-5.5, 107-13.5, 109-7 and had them mix it blind in 210159.

Looks good same as my first gallon.

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