Basement almost ready for Scorpion N8 (several questions though)

**clark17** · **08-18-09, 12:16 PM**

Hey Guys,

The drywall has been installed (after months of hour here, hour there). It still needs to be taped/mudded and sanded

(with some help from pros), but it is a big step out of a way.

As a result I have few questions which I’m sure has been ask before, so please don’t flame me for asking them again.

My goal is to build a 110” – 115” screen with Scorpion N8 paint and build a frame from 3” or 4” MDF covered in black velvet for it. Then for masking I’m planning to use 2 pieces of rigid foam (w/ glued black velvet) to give me 2:40.1 ratio. My projector is refurbished Optoma HD65 bright (1600 ANSI) 720P little projector

. My primary source is HTPC (AMD 5050e, 2Gb RAM, 8200 nvidia mobo hdmi/spdif out) and for a local HDTV (old hisense receiver)…

1) I have already premixed 2 quarts of paint (1 BW + 1 C&S#2), is this good enough to roll 2 coats for my screen?. I’ll be rolling the paint. Also should be adding some water to the mix? I just hope the paint is still good after seating few months on the shelf.

2) For primer, can I just use whatever I use to prime my basement?, or is it recommended to use KIltz or Kiltz2? I’m not planning on sending the surface. Also doesn’t matter what roller type/size I use for a primer?

3) What is the best/easiest roller size/type to roll Scorpion N8 into a primed drywall?

4) What are the drying times for primer and Scorpion N8. I don’t want to rush it.

5) Since the screen will be very close to the ceiling (my guesstimate is about 8” from the ceiling), I’m might (will) have some issues with light being reflected onto the ceiling. Probably best solution would be to attach about 4ft black velvet onto ceiling, but I don’t think my better half would like that idea. Since the basement is primary for kids, I’m planning to paint walls with a light colors and ceiling paint it white. Will I see a drastic improvement if I would paint ceiling i.e. in burgundy vs. white (or i.e. light blue/green) colors? Also is there recommend color for ceiling or it can be any?

Thanks everyone for all your help.

I promise I’ll post some pictures with my progress….

p.s.
After everything is done I'll mail my paint samples to Mech and Harpmaker so they can read them using their equipment.

**dradius** · **08-18-09, 12:37 PM**

If you scroll down to post #16, Tiddler has posted some pretty nice videos. I rolled my screen this way and it looks great. http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index...993&hl=tiddler

**mechman** · **08-18-09, 01:20 PM**

1. I've never added water to anything I've rolled. The paint should be just fine.

2. Prime with whatever you want. I'd use either Kilz or Bulls Eye. If you followed the translucency experiment I ran, you'll recall that very little light gets through two coats of paint. And what does get through is unlikely to get through a second time.

3. Use a 1/4"nap. The wider you're comfortable with the better. Avoid roller lines though.

4. That depends upon environmental conditions. I'd wait until it's dry to the touch. Spraying is usually around 15 minutes for the first few coats and then around 20 minutes for later coats. Rolling I'd guess is at least an hour.

5. The darker you can go the better. WAF applies.

**clark17** · **08-18-09, 01:21 PM**

Quote:

dradius wrote:

If you scroll down to post #16, Tiddler has posted some pretty nice videos. I rolled my screen this way and it looks great. http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index...993&hl=tiddler

Thanks for the link I forgot about Tiddler's rolling method

**clark17** · **08-18-09, 01:24 PM**

I like Dark Plum Color the fellow used for a projector wall and ceiling, what do you guys think? I'm sure, but whatever color I use it should use 'flat' paint?

**clark17** · **08-18-09, 01:28 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

1. I've never added water to anything I've rolled. The paint should be just fine.

2. Prime with whatever you want. I'd use either Kilz or Bulls Eye. If you followed the translucency experiment I ran, you'll recall that very little light gets through two coats of paint. And what does get through is unlikely to get through a second time.

3. Use a 1/4"nap. The wider you're comfortable with the better. Avoid roller lines though.

4. That depends upon environmental conditions. I'd wait until it's dry to the touch. Spraying is usually around 15 minutes for the first few coats and then around 20 minutes for later coats. Rolling I'd guess is at least an hour.

5. The darker you can go the better. WAF applies.

Thank you

, how much coverage should expect from 2 quarts of Scorpion N8 paint?

**dradius** · **08-18-09, 01:46 PM**

Like mechman said, the darker the better. That dark plum is NICE and probably works well. I have a 2' black border around my screen and the walls are a dark brown. Even dark carpet helps. Of course, if you have a huge screen and a banging stereo, you can get by with light carpet or walls. I think if you go that route though, after a couple months and the awe wears off a little, you'll start nitpicking your room and possibly wish you'd gone with darker stuff

**mechman** · **08-18-09, 01:47 PM**

Quote:

clark17 wrote:

Thank you

, how much coverage should expect from 2 quarts of Scorpion N8 paint?

I'd guess at least 4 coats.

**clark17** · **08-18-09, 02:33 PM**

Quote:

dradius wrote:

Like mechman said, the darker the better. That dark plum is NICE and probably works well. I have a 2' black border around my screen and the walls are a dark brown. Even dark carpet helps. Of course, if you have a huge screen and a banging stereo, you can get by with light carpet or walls. I think if you go that route though, after a couple months and the awe wears off a little, you'll start nitpicking your room and possibly wish you'd gone with darker stuff

Thanks, dark brown would be nice too. After all Mech nailed with WAF !!!

Quote:

mechman wrote:

I'd guess at least 4 coats.

Thanks, perfect it should be enough to redo (or touch up) the screen after my little ones use their crayons or worst hockey pucks to it ;-). I just hope Scorpion is kids friendly

**Harpmaker** · **08-18-09, 08:33 PM**

Quote:

clark17 wrote:

I like Dark Plum Color the fellow used for a projector wall and ceiling, what do you guys think? I'm sure, but whatever color I use it should use 'flat' paint?

What matters most is the darkness of the color, not so much the hue.

Now as to what gloss level the wall and ceiling paint should be... that could be an interesting topic for discussion! Conventionally, the answer I have almost always heard is to use a flat paint, BUT, if you take a look at a gloss chart (I have one for Behr paints beside me now) you will notice that the darkest color swatch on the chart (they are all the same color with the only difference being gloss level) is the high gloss! The lightest swatch is the flat! The reason for this is that the flat paint is the closest to a perfect diffuser and reflects the light that hits it back in all directions equally (or close to that). While this is a good property for a screen paint, it may not be the preferred reflective property of a wall or ceiling paint.

Now keep in mind that I don't have a proper "home theater" (my PJ is in my workshop), so what follows may not apply in real-world settings.

What I have noticed is that the flat white paint of my walls and ceiling, even with no other light source in the room other than the PJ, reflect the light coming off my screen back onto the screen enough so that I can see a visible loss of image contrast in a white or N9 screen (which is why I like BW

). My theory is that if my walls and ceiling were glossier (perhaps a semi-gloss) not as much light from the screen would be reflected back to the screen. I might see more of a shine off the ceiling and walls from normal viewing position, but that light would not be going back on the screen to mess with image contrast. This scenario assumes that there are no lights in the room shining on the walls and ceiling at an angle that would bounce them at the screen while viewing. Has anyone tried using satin or semi-gloss paints in this manner?

**clark17** · **08-19-09, 01:15 AM**

Don very interesting and valid points..

I remember a good thread on AVS about it, but I cannot find it now.

I'll try to find out more about it before making any decision.

I just came back from a theater (D-9), btw a good flick, so I didn't have time to take any pictures yet...

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

What matters most is the darkness of the color, not so much the hue.

Now as to what gloss level the wall and ceiling paint should be... that could be an interesting topic for discussion! Conventionally, the answer I have almost always heard is to use a flat paint, BUT, if you take a look at a gloss chart (I have one for Behr paints beside me now) you will notice that the darkest color swatch on the chart (they are all the same color with the only difference being gloss level) is the high gloss! The lightest swatch is the flat! The reason for this is that the flat paint is the closest to a perfect diffuser and reflects the light that hits it back in all directions equally (or close to that). While this is a good property for a screen paint, it may not be the preferred reflective property of a wall or ceiling paint.

Now keep in mind that I don't have a proper "home theater" (my PJ is in my workshop), so what follows may not apply in real-world settings.

What I have noticed is that the flat white paint of my walls and ceiling, even with no other light source in the room other than the PJ, reflect the light coming off my screen back onto the screen enough so that I can see a visible loss of image contrast in a white or N9 screen (which is why I like BW

). My theory is that if my walls and ceiling were glossier (perhaps a semi-gloss) not as much light from the screen would be reflected back to the screen. I might see more of a shine off the ceiling and walls from normal viewing position, but that light would not be going back on the screen to mess with image contrast. This scenario assumes that there are no lights in the room shining on the walls and ceiling at an angle that would bounce them at the screen while viewing. Has anyone tried using satin or semi-gloss paints in this manner?

**clark17** · **08-19-09, 10:04 PM**

I tried to stitch few pictures together (most of the time it works), but I guess I moved while taking pictures

By next weekend I should be done with drywall including sending. Next I'll work on my subfloor and priming /painting the room. Since my room is not perfectly aligned I have to decide how to paint the lower ceiling above the screen and where to end it....

**Harpmaker** · **08-19-09, 11:14 PM**

Looking good Martin.

As long as there is no over-spill from the PJ onto the wall the screen will be painted on, I don't think it's color will matter too much. It's the ceiling, side walls and floor close to the screen that reflect light back onto the screen.

Something to think about trying is one of those programs that lets you "paint" the walls of your room by taking a photo of the area (like the one you just posted) and then selecting from a palate of colors. I have one sold by Lowe's, and I know Home Depot also sells them cheap (around $5), but I haven't tried it yet.

**clark17** · **08-20-09, 12:45 PM**

Thanks Don.

Behr's site has it too, I'm finging very tricky to match colours together... I'm kind of leaning toward 'burgundy' colour for my PJ's wall/ceiling. Like you said the 'hue' is not an issue, but how dark the colour is...

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

Looking good Martin.

As long as there is no over-spill from the PJ onto the wall the screen will be painted on, I don't think it's color will matter too much. It's the ceiling, side walls and floor close to the screen that reflect light back onto the screen.

Something to think about trying is one of those programs that lets you "paint" the walls of your room by taking a photo of the area (like the one you just posted) and then selecting from a palate of colors. I have one sold by Lowe's, and I know Home Depot also sells them cheap (around $5), but I haven't tried it yet.

**clark17** · **08-27-09, 08:56 PM**

a little update 'sort of'... Madding is completed, it needs a little bit of sending... so far so good.

I've made a few mistakes, first of all I think the speaker wire coming off the wall might be to far away from the screen.

Also the left speaker might to close to the corner, causing the sound to bounce of it.... I can always move both speakers to the center, but this may expose the speaker wire, which I was planning to hide behind speakers...

It is nothing major, but still something I should of think before.... I'm sure there will be more "issues", as this is my 'frist ever' HT design

Also how do you guys think I should paint the lower ceiling? As you can see it is not symmetric. It is about 5ft deep. Should I paint the whole thing?, part of it like only 4ft with rectangular shape?

BTW... I've got WFA for a dark paint on the projected wall and ceiling.

**mechman** · **08-28-09, 10:07 PM**

I'd paint the whole soffit. Something dark. Depends upon the rest of the color scheme. But I'd definitely paint the whole thing to match. What color is the rest of the ceiling going to be? Maybe just go a few shades darker than the rest of the ceiling.

**clark17** · **08-31-09, 12:14 AM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

I'd paint the whole soffit. Something dark. Depends upon the rest of the color scheme. But I'd definitely paint the whole thing to match. What color is the rest of the ceiling going to be? Maybe just go a few shades darker than the rest of the ceiling.

The rest of the ceiling(s) throughout basement will be white. Mech is it essential to prime the drywall with Kiltz2 prior rolling Scorpion N8 onto it?

I was wondering if I can use a primer/sealer from SW store instead, same I'll use for the rest of the basement...?

BTW... the sending has been done (what a mess...

).... Today (adding to the mess) I cut 40+ holes for pot lights using dremel with a drywall bit. Dremel is a wonderful tool to have....

**mechman** · **08-31-09, 08:28 AM**

No. Kilz isn't necessary at all. Any primer will do as long as there are at least two rolled coats, which is the minimum that we recommend.

To add to this, my translucency experiment showed that very little light gets through for two rolled coats of paint. And what little does, it's unlikely it would make it through a second time to be reflected back tot he viewer. I do intend to redo this experiment when I get around to testing the 25% polyurethane idea floating around. I do believe that adding some translucency to the mix would allow more light through. But if the screen paint itself is good as is. Why would you need translucency? You can watch for that experiment coming to the Shack soon!

**dradius** · **08-31-09, 10:11 AM**

Quote:

clark17 wrote:

I cut 40+ holes for pot lights using dremel with a drywall bit. Dremel is a wonderful tool to have....

Whoa, that's a lot of holes

And yeah, I hate sanding. It will all be worth it though

**clark17** · **08-31-09, 11:06 AM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

No. Kilz isn't necessary at all. Any primer will do as long as there are at least two rolled coats, which is the minimum that we recommend.

To add to this, my translucency experiment showed that very little light gets through for two rolled coats of paint. And what little does, it's unlikely it would make it through a second time to be reflected back tot he viewer. I do intend to redo this experiment when I get around to testing the 25% polyurethane idea floating around. I do believe that adding some translucency to the mix would allow more light through. But if the screen paint itself is good as is. Why would you need translucency? You can watch for that experiment coming to the Shack soon!

Mech, thanks for the tip. I'll prime my wall with two coats, and at the end I'll roll two coats of Scorpion.

Quote:

dradius wrote:

Whoa, that's a lot of holes

And yeah, I hate sanding. It will all be worth it though

Yes, cleaning after sainding is a nightmare ....

I did vacuum it once, now after cutting holes I'll have to vacuum it again ... (including ceiling and walls)...

I wouldn't be able to do it without rotary tool, dremel or rotozip are the tools to do it.... Even my wife was suprised how clean the cuts where...

This week I'll start on my subfloor ( 7/16 or 5/8 OSB T&G + platon membrane + tapcon screwes (el cheapo solution ) ). Then it will be finishing electral installation and priming/painting...

**seattle_ice** · **08-31-09, 12:20 PM**

Behr makes a paint that has primer built in to it. Works great for dark colors. I used an eggshell gloss for my walls, and a satin on the woodwork in my theater and we love it.

You can see pics in my sig thread.

**clark17** · **08-31-09, 01:13 PM**

Very impressive work there Darryn...

Thanks for your suggestion. Yes I agree I've read somewhere too that for a darker colors it is good to use a paint with primer built in. Otherwise you will have to apply 2 or even 3 coats to get even coverage. This week I'm going to local SW store (there is a 40% off special on some of their paints this week) to pick up primer/untinted paint for my basement. We are still undicided what color to use...

Before painting I want to complete my subfloor first. I'm tempted to paint walls/ceiling above screen using satin gloss (as per Harpmaker's suggestion), but at the I'll probably chicken out and I will end up using flat paint....

Quote:

seattle_ice wrote:

Behr makes a paint that has primer built in to it. Works great for dark colors. I used an eggshell gloss for my walls, and a satin on the woodwork in my theater and we love it.

You can see pics in my sig thread.

**seattle_ice** · **08-31-09, 02:32 PM**

Quote:

clark17 wrote:

Very impressive work there Darryn...

Thanks for your suggestion. Yes I agree I've read somewhere too that for a darker colors it is good to use a paint with primer built in. Otherwise you will have to apply 2 or even 3 coats to get even coverage.

Actually, for many dark colors, you will probably need 2-3 coats with the primer, and sometimes 4-5 without. Dark, dark reds and blues are very hard to cover completely in less coats and have it be perfectly even.

**Harpmaker** · **08-31-09, 09:13 PM**

They can also tint the primer to a color close to your final paint. That usually helps too.

**clark17** · **09-25-09, 10:22 AM**

Just a quick update:

The basement has been primed (including wall for Scorpion N8) and ceiling has been painted.

Last night I started putting pot lights in. Also my projector ceiling mount has been built out of 5/8” plywood and 2 bolts with wignuts, to allow me to make some adjustment. I’ve painted it black, IMHO looks pretty good for $5 I spent on it. Thanks to Tiddler for design and for making a mounting metal plate for my HD65…

Quick question:

The projected wall (to be dark reddish/burgundy) will require a coat of tinted grey primer. Can I use this primer to paint area where the Scorpion N8 will be? The Scorpion N8 mix is darker than tinted Primer.
If that was ok, it would safe me some work as my projector is not mounted yet so I don’t have watch where I paint with the tinted grey primer (as I would paint whole wall). At the same time I don’t want this tinted primer to have any affect on Scorpion N8’s performance….

Sorry for being paranoid, but after working on my basement (since Feb), I’ve learnt one thing ‘measure 4 times, cut ones’ is very TRUE saying.

BTW... SW primer(200) and ceiling paint rocks. I'll use duration for the walls.... I cannot wait to start using colors, as white is blinding me....

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