Screen size help?

**tango** · **02-06-07, 03:25 PM**

Okay, I'm new here. After several years of being out of "the game" I had decided to jump back in. I am starting to shop for a projector, my first, and screen. I have decided on the Sanyo Z5, but am so confused by the screen sizing my head is spinning. I will be setting this up for movie viewing only. As far as I can tell I either need a 16:9 or a 1.85:1, draper lists both. On a 16:9 will I have black bars at the tops and bottom? will the image completely fit a 1.85:1 ratio. I have been to projector central and projector people's websites and am just more confused now. One says I need a 52x92 the other another size. I have eight foot ceilings and the first row of seating will be approxiamtely 18ft back from the screen, with the second row about 4 behind that and 3ft from the rear. PC says to mount it 4 ft off the floor which leaves me less than 4 ft high? 96" diagonal? 106"? HELP!!!

**Sonnie** · **02-06-07, 03:57 PM**

Hi jeb and welcome to the Shack!

16:9 is the same as 1.85:1 ... however not all movies are this aspect ratio. Some are 2.35:1 AR and some are 1.85:1. I think that most people will buy the 1.85:1 AR screen and suffer with the black bars and top and bottom for the 2.35:1 AR movies. It's really not that bad... nothing like what you see on a 1.33:1 (4:3) AR screen.

I sit about 10-11' back from my screen and it's a 1.85:1 AR 97" diagonal screen. My ceiling is 8' high. There is no set rule that the bottom of the screen has to be 4' off the floor. I simply set the top of my screen to about 6-8 inches from the ceiling... work out beautimously.

You could go to a 106" screen, but with the limit of an 8' high ceiling, however, mark it on the wall and make sure that someone sitting on the back row will be able to see the bottom area of the screen over the heads of someone sitting in the front row. We don't have any issues with our 97" screen, but our back row is on a one foot riser.

The Sanyo Z5... nice projector...

**tango** · **02-06-07, 04:14 PM**

Then why do they list two different sizes as posted here http://www.projectorcentral.com/Draper-Cineperm.htm They have an 16:9 ratio and a 1.85:1 widescreen ratio and the actual screen sizes are different? This is why I am confused. If I own mostly 1:85:1 movies, which I do, shouldn't I buy a 1.85:1 screen? Why even go the 16:9 route?

**Dougie085** · **02-06-07, 04:24 PM**

16:9 is the HDTV standard. 1.85:1 is the DVD standard and 2.35:1 is anamorphic widescreen or cinemascope. Most just go with a 16:9 or 1.85:1 screen. A growing trend is to get a 2.35:1 screen and mask it for 16:9 for normal movie watching and get an Anamorphic lens to make 2.35:1 sources full screen on a 2.35:1 screen.

**basementjack** · **02-06-07, 04:29 PM**

16:9 is actually 1.78:1

1.85 to 1 is slightly wider

a basic primer will help...

16x9 means the ratio of the screen is 16 units wide by 9 units high

1.78 to 1 means the ration of the screen is 1.78 units wide by 1 unit high.

Mathmatically they are basically the same 16 divided by 9 (16/9) = 1.777777 repeating.

regular TV's were 4:3
4/3 = 1.333
so you could say
4:3 = 1.333 to 1
16:9 = 1.78 to 1
this makes it a bit easier - for a given screen height (1) the screen is getting wider...

by the way - 1280 pixels divided by 720 = 1.77777 repeating
So your sanyo is refered to as a 16:9 native projector.

so for an exact screen fit, go with a 1.78:1 screen.
if you own a lot of 1.85: 1 movies, you could get the slightly wider 1.85:1 screen.
you will either have bars to the left and right, or you can zoom the sanyo just a hare, and have a little of the light projected on to the top and bottom border. (You're only going to loose about 28 pixels, thats 14 top and 14 bottom)

While this is a nice comprimise, I doubt it's worth it unless you are severly limited to how high the screen can be.

I have an 8 foot wide screen, which is about a 53 inch high picture for 1.78:1 movies.
That shrinks to about 51 inches for a 1.85:1 not really noticable....

**Sonnie** · **02-06-07, 04:36 PM**

Quote:

tango wrote:

Then why do they list two different sizes as posted here http://www.projectorcentral.com/Draper-Cineperm.htm They have an 16:9 ratio and a 1.85:1 widescreen ratio and the actual screen sizes are different? This is why I am confused. If I own mostly 1:85:1 movies, which I do, shouldn't I buy a 1.85:1 screen? Why even go the 16:9 route?

Yeah... there is a slight difference between 16:9 and 1.85:1, but with a little bit of overscan, you won't notice a difference. They will both fit the screen perfectly, or at least they do mine.

**Prof.** · **02-06-07, 05:11 PM**

Quote:

tango wrote:

I have eight foot ceilings and the first row of seating will be approxiamtely 18ft back from the screen,

That is a LONG way back for a first row...
I have a 106" screen and my first row is 11'6"...
If for some reason you can't get any closer, then you are going to need a fairly large screen..Otherwise you won't get that immersive feeling that makes big screen viewing so enjoyable..

**Josuah** · **02-07-07, 03:32 AM**

At 18' away from the screen, you'll want to go big. Say, 160" diagonal or something big like that. That also means you need a projector that has a lot of lumens. Real lumens as measured by someplace like Projector Central, as the spec'ed lumens might not be what you get once you have everything calibrated correctly.

You should get a 16:9 screen if your projector is 16:9, unless you want to get into the anamorphic lens deal, which you might find a bit too confusing or a hassle. And 16:9 is not close enough to 1.85:1 that you should feel okay picking one over the other. You also do not want to have any overscan if you can avoid it. With a projector, you shouldn't have to accept overscan.

Basically, if you buy a 16:9 projector, the light coming out of the projector will be 16:9. If your movie is 16:9, you have no black bars. If your movie is 4:3, you have the black bars on the side. If you have something wider than 16:9, then you'll have black bars on the top and bottom.

Where you have to mount the projector, in the vertical plane, depends on how much vertical lens shift the projector supports.

**tango** · **02-07-07, 08:57 AM**

Like I said before you'll have to excuse my ignorance with front projectors. I have always had large RPTV's. I ran the numbers through the PC calcualtor for distance and it said for the screen size I was looking at 52x92 or 106" diagonal the distance for the Z5 was 21.3 ft.. I was unclear where this was a max distance or a minimum distance. I assume the PJ would have some sort of zoom lens on it to adjust for the size, but maybe not. Here in Iowa we just don't have hardly any dealers that sell them.

As far as the room size and distance. We are working in a 14x28 ft room. However, we are cutting 3 ft off the end for a equipment closet, which leaves me 14x25. I figured with the first row at 18ft it would be sitting just in front of the PJ, (ceiling mount) the next row would be just slightly behind it. I don't want to go to large of a screen and loose the picture quality. But I also don't want the PJ image hitting me in the back of the head if I use too large of a screen. Plus, I used the 2.5 time the screen diagonal for seating distance, but maybe that does not apply to front projection. Also will a 1.85:1 movie have black bars top on bottom on a 16:9 screen?

I am also unclear how low from the ceiling the PJ must hang. From previous posts it appears I want to stay away for the keystone correction as that only causes mopre problems. Correct?

And finally, since you might want to know, although not in the correct forum is the rest of my equipment list. Some I have, some I will be pruchasing. My HK AVR7000 quit on me last year and they were unable to repair it the DSP card since they don't make them any longer. I will never buy another HK product again if I can help it.

Receiver Denon 4306 or I am looking at the outlaw audio separates, still undecided.
Toshiba HD-A2 for the 720P upcoversion
Pioneer LD (yes I still use laser dics on occasion)
Of course my beloved phillips Pronto TSU3500
Panamax LC
Speakers, Paradigm Monitor 11's (front) ADP370 rear, CC370 center and a PW2200 sub.
I will be ordering my cable from Blue Jean Cable. If a 35ft run of HDMI is possible with no signal loss? Any idea?

Thanks again to everybody for their help.

**basementjack** · **02-07-07, 11:22 AM**

check out monoprice.com for the hdmi cable.

Given the size of the room, I would elect for a bigger screen, and a brighter projector.

If you are just going to watch movies (no video games or PC) then look at the 720p panasonic. I think it's the AX100.

The panasonic, and the sanyo, and the epson all have 'lens shift' so there will be no need for keystone with any of them. The panasonic and epson are brighter than the sanyo. the panasonic has a smearscreen filter than makes the individual pixels harder to see, which is desireable as picture size increases. for the size of the room, and seating distances, You probably want at least an 8foot wide screen - 9 would be better...

Iowa is pretty far but if you're ever in chicago, I'm sure we could arrange a home theater tour.

**tango** · **02-07-07, 11:32 AM**

Jack-

Thanks for the offer! I use to live in Chicago. Great town, I miss the action.

**Prof.** · **02-07-07, 05:31 PM**

Quote:

tango wrote:

Plus, I used the 2.5 time the screen diagonal for seating distance, but maybe that does not apply to front projection. .

The preferred seating distance for front projection is about 1.5 times the width of the screen..
Some people (as I do) like to be even slightly closer than that..

Most good digital projectors today will allow you to sit very close to the screen, and still not see any SDE..

**bobgpsr** · **02-07-07, 09:03 PM**

Quote:

tango wrote:

Toshiba HD-A2 for the 720P upcoversion

If you can possibly swing it I would recommend the HD-XA2 that has the Silicon Optix Reon chip instead. Its upconversion of standard def DVDs is as good as the very best external video processors.

Actually my secret goal is to see it on somebody's big 100+ screen.

Want me to bring my XA2 over to try it? What part of Iowa? (a PM reply will do for an answer).

**Josuah** · **02-08-07, 02:32 AM**

If you're not set at sitting 18' away, choose to sit closer. That way, not only can you get more out of your projector, you can also get more out of your speakers and gear. The farther away you sit from your speakers, the louder you'll have to run them for the same volume.

And yeah, a lot of projectors happen to end up being such that they will give you the right picture size if they're mounted right over your head, or pretty close to it. Ceiling mount isn't the only option, as you can also build a little floor enclosure which could also act as your ottoman or a little table.

**tango** · **02-08-07, 08:42 AM**

I actually thought about the floor enclosure as well and would not rule that out.

**tango** · **02-08-07, 10:14 AM**

Quote:

bobgpsr wrote:

If you can possibly swing it I would recommend the HD-XA2 that has the Silicon Optix Reon chip instead. Its upconversion of standard def DVDs is as good as the very best external video processors.

Actually my secret goal is to see it on somebody's big 100+ screen.

Want me to bring my XA2 over to try it? What part of Iowa? (a PM reply will do for an answer).

For my understanding the XA2 is a 1.3 HDMI and there is not much out that that supports in for PJ. Plus, I don't think the wife would like to spend an extra 500 on a DVD player, budget you know.

Thanks though, when I get everthing setup I'll be in touch. We just got bought the house waiting for ours to sell

**Dougie085** · **02-08-07, 01:38 PM**

You can use HDMI 1.3 on any HDMI port they are cross compatible. The only reason you would need HDMI 1.3 on your receiver is if you wanted to use the new audio formats.

**blownrx7** · **02-12-07, 02:25 PM**

Tango,
I have the PLV-Z5 and I am using a 35ft hdmi (22ga) from monoprice. NO problems whatsoever!!!

Great picure and no "sparklies".
I am using it in a totally light-controlled room with a throw of ~12ft and using a screen size of appx 100". Seating is at appx 11.5ft.
I have no problems but 18 ft is a longer throw and MAY require higher contrast performance.

Check the comparison Review:http://www.projectorcentral.com/ax100u_plv-z5.htm

It has some good info abouut the capabilities of the Sanyo. I ended up going with the Sanyo based on the honest assessment of it's capabilities and my application.
HTH

**blownrx7** · **02-12-07, 02:35 PM**

Quote:

I have no problems but 18 ft is a longer throw and MAY require higher contrast performance.

I should have said higher LUMEN performance

**tango** · **02-12-07, 04:12 PM**

well why then does the projection calculator on PJ central show 21.8 ft then? What gives is that the max distance?

Also how low does it need to hang from the ceiling? Does it matter how high the screen is on the wall?

**blownrx7** · **02-12-07, 07:02 PM**

It's all a matter of how good you want it. It will work fine at 18 ft (or 21.8ft) but NOT as fine as at 12 ft simply because the lumen output is not of the flamethrower variety. Will it be perfectly acceptable to you? - It depends on how good the light control is and how good you want the picture and to some extent how good your source is too.
Like others have said, if you can move it closer, that would be more desireable. But is not an absolute must either.

As far as how low to hang it, the Sanyo has a nice adjustment for keystoning (I think that's the term) Ideal would be as straight a shot as possible but in the case of the Sanyo it is not nearly as critical.

As far as screen height, I vaguely remember reading the middle of the screen should be near eye level but that just does not sound right. I'll have to search. My ceiling is only 7ft in my basement so I was forced to set mie at the top of wall.

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