Fabric Screens

**Prof.** · **02-09-07, 07:25 PM**

I'm starting this thread on Fabric screens because this is the type of screen that I'm interested in at the moment..
I'm currently testing a new material that should be an improvement on the tried and tested Block-out Cloth..
Initial tests look promising, but I'll post details when I've completed all testing..

Prof..

**mechman** · **02-10-07, 10:36 AM**

Sounds good prof! Is it available in the US? Keep us posted!

mech

**Prof.** · **02-10-07, 05:39 PM**

mech,

I think this material will be available in the US, but it may be under another name..
I will describe the material and the type of store I bought it from..

**Prof.** · **02-11-07, 09:36 PM**

I recently decided to buy an Anamorphic lens and make a new CIH screen..

My current screen is 8' wide, but I wanted to go wider to get the full benefit of the CIH..
It is very difficult in my State to find any solid sheet material longer than 8'.
I had thought about using a material called Foamex ( aka Sintra board) but again was only available in 8' long sheets...I could get it in the Eastern States but the cost of shipping put it out of the question..

So I started looking around for an alternative material...one that came by the metre instead of a solid board..
Blackout cloth has been used by many people, and most seem happy with it, with a few exceptions..Some of their concerns were about the material sagging over time, and that they felt it didn't produce good blacks and whites...

I bought a piece of 3 pass (totally light blocking) BOC and tried it against my current screen...which is a white vinyl coated MDF board..

The first thing I noticed was how grey the whites looked compared to my screen..(I was using the cloth side of the material, which is the whitest side), and the colours overall looked a little darker.
The blacks looked OK, but I think that was because the material produced a darker image...

This material was not going to give me the image quality that I was looking for..
So I started out to try and find some other material that was going to give me a better image...
I won't go into all the types of materials I tested, suffice to say that none of them fitted my requirements..

I had just about given up finding a suitable material when the other day I was at a Rubber Supply Stores, looking for some acoustic foam, when I spotted some coloured rolls of material on a rack. Among the rolls was a white one, so I took a closer look..
It looked like a combination of a vinyl face with a rubber back, only thinner than BOC..
I asked the assistant what the material was called and she said it's NULON...A waterproof material that used for making tents..
It looked to be a fairly bright white, so definitely worth a try...
The Nulon material was 1480mm.(58") wide, and costs $15.95/M.AUD..which is a bit more expensive than BOC..

I compared it in the daylight against the BOC sample I had and it looked a little creamish against the BOC..
Probably another dead end I thought, but since I had bought a half metre I might as well give it a try...

I pinned up the sample of Nulon next to the BOC on my screen, and turned on the projector..
The first thing that really struck me was how white the whites were..The BOC next to it looked dirty and the whites on my screen were not even as bright as the Nulon sample..
This really surprised me since on initial inspection of the material, it didn't look as white as the BOC..

I then started to check out the colours, and without exception every colour was brighter...or more correctly lighter...making it possible to turn down brightness a little..

This was looking very good..BUT, then I started looking for blacks and compared to the BOC there didn't seem to be any real blacks...Was this going to be the weak part of the material?
I continued watching the program, comparing all the different colours, when suddenly BANG..there it was..deep rich BLACK!!.
I froze the image and walked up to the screen to take a closer look..There it was..I could see part of the black on the BOC, and part on the Nulon..The Nulon was definitely blacker.
I then realised that the Nulon actually reproduces blacks ACCURATELY, and what I thought were blacks previously, were only shades of dark grey..
This would indicate that the Nulon would be excellent in showing shadow detail..

On the negative side, this material is a little bit translucent and would need some sort of backing to prevent any light loss through the material...

I will be posting some screenshots shortly to show how this material performs..

**Prof.** · **02-13-07, 06:02 PM**

I tried to get a screenshot that has a good range of colours, with good blacks and whites as well, and have those colours spread across the two test panels..It was virtually impossible, so I've taken several shots to try and cover it..

The panel on the left is the Nulon and the centre panel is the BOC...My screen is a white vinyl..

This first shot shows the comparison of white between the BOC and the Nulon..You can see it on the skirting board..
The black of the pot is almost identical on both materials, and you can see the change in colour between the materials..

This next pic. shows the colour improvement of the Nulon over the BOC..

This is fairly bland scene but clearly shows the lighter background colour and blue sky..

In this shot you can see the true colour of the birds head, which is an orangey red..

One of the other things I noticed with this material is that the image is slightly sharper than the BOC or my current screen..It's not obvious in the screenshots but is very obvious to the eye..

I think this Nulon material would be ideal for anyone who is making a big 16:9 screen and can't find big enough solid sheets or is making a wide CIH screen (as in my case) and doesn't want to use an AT screen material...

Also if your projector is a bit down in lumens, this screen material should help to give a little extra brightness...

**wbassett** · **02-13-07, 08:09 PM**

Looks very nice Prof. Is this material readily available here in the States too?

Would it be possible to take a shot of just the material, one with the flash, one without?

**Prof.** · **02-13-07, 09:56 PM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

Looks very nice Prof. Is this material readily available here in the States too?

It should be available in the US..If you go to a Rubber stores and they don't know the name Nulon, I would just describe it to them..
If they don't have it then someone like Johannes or the like should have it..

I'll get some shots of just the material for you..

**mechman** · **02-13-07, 10:34 PM**

Quote:

Prof. wrote:

I'll get some shots of just the material for you..

That'd be great Prof! And it looks cream colored next to the BOC? From those pics you'd think it was whiter than the BOC. It seems a tad bit brighter and the whites are a bit whiter. Did you find the backing you were looking for?

mech

**Prof.** · **02-14-07, 12:10 AM**

The first shot is taken with the flash...The second is taken without...and the third shot has been taken from 6" away in sunlight..There is almost no surface texture.

**Prof.** · **02-14-07, 12:16 AM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

And it looks cream colored next to the BOC? From those pics you'd think it was whiter than the BOC.

mech, your right...It doesn't compute!..
The Nulon is definitely creamer than the BOC, and yet it projects brighter...I don't get it!!
The other thing is, it looks like the material has a bit of sheen to it, and yet it doesn't hot-spot!!

**Prof.** · **02-14-07, 12:21 AM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

Did you find the backing you were looking for?

mech

I've decided that when I make the screen I'll make up the normal type cloth frame and cover it with the vinyl coated MDF material i'm using now..Then I'll wrap the whole assembly with the Nulon..
This will give me a white backing for the Nulon...

**Prof.** · **02-14-07, 12:28 AM**

I was just having another look at the material outside..
In the shade, it looks creamish, but when sunlight hits it, it turns brilliant white..
Whereas the BOC looks the same colour in both shade and sunlight, only a bit brighter in sunlight..

**mechman** · **02-14-07, 11:26 AM**

A quick search at JoAnn.com didn't come up with it. That doesn't mean much of anything though. I'm gonna swing by there on Monday and see what I can find out. I've seen it online as a 'Waterproof fabric'.

mechman

**Prof.** · **02-14-07, 05:29 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

I've seen it online as a 'Waterproof fabric'.

Yes..I contacted the Store I bought mine from yesterday and asked them what this material is normally used for..They said it's used for lightweight water-proof jackets,Tents, Flags, and Banners..

If you don't have a Rubber supplier in your area, you might try Signwriter suppliers, or Tent makers...

**wbassett** · **02-28-07, 01:53 AM**

Any updates on this Prof? Did you finish a full screen yet?

**Prof.** · **02-28-07, 06:29 PM**

No, I haven't even started the new screen yet..
I had intended to wait for the lens to arrive, and test it out on my current screen first before I made the CIH screen..
I was informed yesterday by the supplier that he is waiting on a shipment of prisms, so there's going to be a further delay..
I will keep everyone up to date when the lens arrives and I start making the Nulon screen..

**Prof.** · **04-04-07, 08:43 PM**

Update...

The Anamorphic lens arrived a few weeks ago and after playing around with it for a few days and everything looking good, I've now started making up the Scope screen..
It's not finished yet but I thought I would post a few pics of the progress at this stage..

The first shot is just the basic framing...pretty standard stuff..
The frame is 1"x4" pre-finished Cyprus Fir...It was the straightest timber I could find..

This is the backing board..It's 3mm.white faced MDF..The same material that my current screen is made from..
The Nulon material is semi translucent and needs a white backing to reduce light loss through the material.
One of the advantages of the backing board is that when it comes to cleaning the screen, you have a solid backing to press the material against, which otherwise might tend to stretch and loosen the material when pressure is applied..

And this is with the Nulon fitted..I had great reservations as to how this was going to turn out, because when the material arrived, it was folded with creases everywhere, and being quite thin I wasn't sure if it would stretch evenly eliminating all the creases.
I thought about ironing it before fitting, but being a nylon based product, I had visions of it melting or sticking to the iron, so I decided to take a chance that it would stretch ok..
It was a great relief when the last staple went in and I turned it over to find that all the creases had gone..

Today I'll be making up the borders and fitting them, and attaching the French Cleats ready for mounting..

More photo's to come...

**mechman** · **04-05-07, 09:51 AM**

Looks good so far prof!

mech

**Prof.** · **04-05-07, 06:54 PM**

Thanks mech...I have to stop myself from rushing to finish it..
I'm dieing to see how it looks with the Anamorphic lens setup..

**wbassett** · **04-06-07, 06:12 PM**

prof is that a 2.35:1 screen??

**Prof.** · **04-06-07, 07:50 PM**

Bill.. it's actually a 2.37:1..That's the aspect ratio required for this Anamorphic lens, to completely fill the width of the screen..

Here is a shot of the finished screen..It's a little blurry unfortunately..

**wbassett** · **04-06-07, 08:47 PM**

Excellent job! Get that puppy mounted and then some gratuitous screenies up!

Oh... 300 should look outstanding on that!

**MACCA350** · **04-07-07, 10:27 AM**

Have you noticed any hotspotting or color shifting with this material?

I tried a few different materials in my journey's from fabrics to plastics and found that the more they reflected the more prone they were to hotspotting. The easiest way I found to detect this was to use Avia, there are a few full screen color fields of various colors. Playing them(more so with the brighter colors) I could see that the colors were not uniform across the entire screen, and if you moved around the room the colors would shift in radiance with these higher reflective materials. I decided against those materials, even though they gave brighter whites and overall vibrant colors, because of the uneven color spread. I also found imperfections in a number of the different materials I tried.

I ended up choosing this material from Dazian because of the perfect uniformity in finish and the projected image is reflected absolutely even no matter how you look at it, zero hotspotting and color shifting. This material is a slightly stretchy thin PVC(which also makes it easy to clean) with very fine diagonal ridges that can only be seen from a few inches away.

I'd love to give that material a try. I live in Australia so sourcing it over here may be an issue. Do you have any more info on I should be looking for?

cheers

**Prof.** · **04-07-07, 09:06 PM**

MACCA..mech and Bill....This Nulon screen material is incredible!!

I temporarily set up the screen yesterday to see how this material performed, and was totally blown away by what I saw...It's even better than what my test sample showed!!

The first thing I noticed was just how bright and clear the overall image was..It was like a veil had been lifted from the image...
But what really stands out is how sharp the image is compared to my previous vinyl faced screen..It Almost has that CRT type of sharpness, that doesn't have any harshness to it..if you know what I mean.

The WHITES and the BLACKS are the BEST I have ever seen of all the seven screens and dozens of test panels I have tried over the years..I could even reduce contrast and the whites were still strong..
And the COLOURS !!...well the only way I can describe it is, it was like a few more thousand colours had been added to the images...with absolutely no push to any colour...

HOT-SPOTTING !!...Totally non existent!!..My previous vinyl screen exhibited a little bit of hot-spotting, which was only noticeable with a bright sky background..
With a totally white projected image, this whole screen was evenly illuminated from one side to the other..

VIEWING CONE !!...It doesn't have one!!..I could stand right next to the screen, and it was just as bright when viewing from the normal seated position..

Because of the clarity and added sharpness, the image now has a greater perceived depth to it..giving it a more of a 3D look...

I can't emphasize enough, how good this screen material is, and I'm very sure it would stand up very well against the most expensive commercial screens..

Comparing it to other screens I've made, I would guess it has about a 1.3 gain..

When the screen has been properly set up and the new lens in place, I will post some pics..

MACCA...You can get this material from most Clark Rubber stores..It's 1450mm.wide and costs $15.95/M...Also may be available from Spotlight..
If you can just get a half metre or so, it will be well worth trying against your Dazian material..
Oh...and btw..This leaves BOC for dead!!

**MACCA350** · **04-09-07, 05:22 AM**

I'm on holidays at the moment so I'll be taking a trip down to Clark Rubber in the morning

Should be interesting, I'll let you know how it goes.

cheers

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