Can I improve on my Misty Evening Gray screen?

[Sonnie]

Currently I have the Misty Evening Gray painted sheetrock/drywall screen. I was wondering if I might improve on it with a particular laminate... without spending much $$$.

My projector is the Sanyo Z4 and my room is completely light controlled.

[wbassett]

Sonnie wrote:

Currently I have the Misty Evening Gray painted sheetrock/drywall screen. I was wondering if I might improve on it with a particular laminate... without spending much $$$.

My projector is the Sanyo Z4 and my room is completely light controlled.

That depends on what your definition of $$$ is. If you are expecting the same price as a quart of paint, the answer is no. Laminate is typically $1.66 a square foot. Home Depot adds around $20 for a handling fee (just an extra charge they can tack on for no real reason)

What is it you want to improve? If you used a flat finish you could try rolling on a coat of matte poly. If you used eggshell finish the poly won't make a difference for you.

Seeing that you have a gray screen now, Fashion Gray would work for you, but it needs a poly coating to knock down the specular gain to prevent hot spotting.

[Sonnie]

$75-100 would be well within my budget. I can't remember if I used eggshell or not, I'll check and see.

Is Fashion Gray a laminate color?

Misty Evening is super light... most people think it's white when they see it.

[mechman]

Sonnie,

Yes, Fashion Grey is a laminate color. Take a look at Bill's new post here:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ons-intro.html

Fashion Grey's RGB is 195 188 194, so it would be close to the Grayhawk RS in color. If you have total light control though, I'd recommend the Designer White Laminate.

mech

[mechman]

Here are some shots comparing DW and FG. Disregard the laminate on the right. It is Chargrey Suede and is definetly not good screen material. DW is on the left - FG in the middle

Lots of ambient light







Little ambient light





The only shot I have with no lights on



Hopefully that will help a bit. I still have the small sheet of DW if you want to see some other shot I can do it next week.

mech

[wbassett]

mech what projector is it you have? I forgot what it is and the lumen rating.

Sonnie, 1000 lumens is on the lower end for a medium gray and whites may take a hit. Let's wait and hear what projector mech has and see if yours has the same brightness. Also how old is the bulb?

Another option is a neutral N9 shade, like Sherwin Williams Soothing White. The paint number is SW 6539. You will want the Duration Extra White Matte base.

It isn't dead on neutral for D65, but aside from Winter Mountain it is the closest.

Here is a CIE plot showing where the laminates fall in reference to D65 and also show some other painted options.

As I have mentioned, our target is D65 and the Munsell neutral matches I have been researching and testing are the closest to our reference point that I have found.

D65 'Target'

As you can see Winter Mountain hits the bullseye, not quite dead center but it's in there. SW Gray Screen and Soothing White are extremely close too. Don't let the name fool you, Soothing White is actually a very light gray in the N9 range. Winter Mountain and Gray screen are a Munsell N8 shade and match. (More about neutrals in another thread though)

The matte finish has a sheen between flat and eggshell. All the commercial screens I have looked at so far have a matte finish, so I really liked this base when I ran across it. It is also very durable and can be scrubbed, flat finishes get destroyed when tried to be cleaned, this paint doesn't. One thing about any screen I test is it can't ge delicate or 'dainty' Check out the store display. They have a regular flat paint next to the matte paint, along with a magic marker to draw on the test panels. Spray them both with water and the matte just wipes clean. It's a really nice paint and also covers better than Behr or Glidden, but it is also more expensive. The matte finish didn't require a poly coating for me, so you can skip that step. It rolls on smooth with no concern about roller marks, so no fancy rolling techniques are needed. I roll in strips, then over lap for the next row, blending in the edges. I used less than half a quart to roll a 52x92 screen. It covers very well. I used a foam 8" roller and there was a slight stipple texture that looked uniform and subtle, that also helps with the diffusive effect.

Either way, Fashion Grey or one of the neutral grays and you will have a very nice screen. Honestly, I do not know what the old ME formula was or how the color tested. The old formula was outstanding from everyone that has used it has reported back, it just had the misfortune of not having the right name such as 'Silver Screen', and was found at the wrong time and wrong site/thread. It got burried in favor of a name and hype. I have a feeling a lot of really good methods died that way without every getting a chance. My goal and hope on this site is that we don't discount any method until it gets it's proper testing and evaluation, whether it be a simple substrate, fabric, or paint.

I am still archiving all my information and testing and reworking it into a more concise presentation. Look at the CIE plots above, and then the ones in the Data thread that shows all tested commercial screens. You will see Fashion Gray falls right in the area of the 'V' target, and Winter Mountain, Soothing White, and Gray screen are the closest to D65 of anything known to date for DIY, as well as all the analyzed commercial screens. Again, I have to remind everyone, color is only the base and foundation. It will work as an excellent screen, but we can do better with more testing with top coatings for those that are interested in that, but these are excellent options and very easy to make.

One thing to keep in mind for neutrals or the near neutrals I mentioned, you can go darker with the same lumens and still have a very bright image. Neutral reflects light more evenly more accurately.

I also like to keep things simple. Sometimes complicated isn't better, it's just more complicated. I do though have some plans for a layered screen that is more advanced. I talked to 3M about some very interesting films and they sent me a lot of samples to play with. My belief has always been that the next breakthrough in DIY is going to be a hybrid screen that employs a variety of techiques.

[wbassett]

Sonnie, if you want a white screen, Designer White is an outstanding choice, but since you're not afraid to paint, I can also tell you about a white that rivals DW, and is not only a very bright and well balanced matte white, it is also a vinyl paint and is recognized as a screen paint by the manufacturer... and for around $28 a gallon! It looks like UPW and is just as bright, but all similarities end there. By the way, to date I have yet to find a brighter white that is close to our white reference of 255 255 255, this white is just as white as UPW, but better.

Just a little teaser for you and others... don't worry I fully intend on disclosing what it is when I start the thread on painted screen options. Also, and I gave a hint, you buy it by the gallon, you don't have to mix this with measuring cups and syringes, it exemplifies the KISS principle.

[Sonnie]

My projector is fairly new, so the bulb is still in good shape.

Painting might be a little tougher to do for me since the frame is liquid nailed to the sheetrock. It would be very difficult to roll on more paint, that's why I was considering a laminate, if it might be better than the ME, although I know you are not that familiar with it. I was thinking on the laminate I could simply have the piece cut the exact size of my framed area and glue'er up.

[wbassett]

Sonnie wrote:

My projector is fairly new, so the bulb is still in good shape.

Painting might be a little tougher to do for me since the frame is liquid nailed to the sheetrock. It would be very difficult to roll on more paint, that's why I was considering a laminate, if it might be better than the ME, although I know you are not that familiar with it. I was thinking on the laminate I could simply have the piece cut the exact size of my framed area and glue'er up.

Fashion Grey is an outstanding material... even though it's one I found I still wanted to provide a couple of options.

[Sonnie]

It sounds like Designer White might be better for me... no?

[mechman]

Sonnie wrote:

It sounds like Designer White might be better for me... no?

Since you have light control, I'd say yes. FG would be good if you have any lighting 'lit' up during your viewing. I use my theater as a TV room mainly. So there's always lights on.

mech

[mechman]

wbassett wrote:

mech what projector is it you have? I forgot what it is and the lumen rating.

Mitsubishi HC3000
1000 ANSI Lumens
I run it low mode though. I would guess (and that's all it is!) it's around 650 lumens - maybe 700 in low mode.

mech

[mechman]

Where are we at Sonnie?

mech

[Sonnie]

I think I'm gonna try the DW laminate and see how it looks in comparison to my ME.

I can place it up on the wall, half way across the ME screen and compare the two. I just need to find it and have a piece cut. I'm not sure we have it locally so it may take some time to find it.

EDIT: I just called my local supply company and he told me he could order it for me. I'll have to cut it to size myself. I'm gonna measure my screen when I get home and make sure of the size. I think a 4' x 8' will work. I have about a 97" screen which is supposed to be 48" x 85", but I need to make sure it's not a tad taller.

[wbassett]

What did you use before ME?

My concern is that going from a light gray to white you may not be happy with the black levels. Colors and the brightness will really be fantastic, but blacks as you know are only going to be as good as what the projector puts out, and LCD projectors aren't known for their stellar blacks.

Mech's projector is the same lumen rating, so you should be able to handle Fashion Grey too. I'm going to go against the norm here, and that is for total light control the mantra is white white white... but there are benefits of gray even with light control. They do help with some ambient room lighting, and with some incandescant lighting on the image doesn't wash out like a white screen and the blacks stay darker... with lights out the blacks are even blacker, I think mech can validate that.

Also right now the screen I have up is Gray Screen, and it's close to the same shade as FG... and all my viewing is at night with lights out.

Mech don't take my post as arguing or contradicting you, like I said I think since Sonnie already has a gray he may not like white.

Sonnie if you want a good test on whether you'll like DW, throw up a coat of Kilz2 or UPW and check it out the blacks. If they are fine, DW has higher gain (1.24) and will be an even brighter and more vivid image. If you don't like the black levels, that increased gain isn't going to make them any darker.

The only downside of Fashion Grey is you'll need a coat of matte poly to eliminate any potential hot spotting.

All Home Depots carry it, but they add on a $20 handling fee. Check out the dealer locator Some people have found resellers other than HD that were a lot cheaper.

[wbassett]

Sonnie wrote:

I think I'm gonna try the DW laminate and see how it looks in comparison to my ME.

I can place it up on the wall, half way across the ME screen and compare the two. I just need to find it and have a piece cut. I'm not sure we have it locally so it may take some time to find it.

EDIT: I just called my local supply company and he told me he could order it for me. I'll have to cut it to size myself. I'm gonna measure my screen when I get home and make sure of the size. I think a 4' x 8' will work. I have about a 97" screen which is supposed to be 48" x 85", but I need to make sure it's not a tad taller.

Sonnie cutting is a 'snap'. I've been deliquent on getting the laminate information posted and there is a section on cutting it. You can score it with a utility knife and just 'snap' it and it makes a clean line, or use a fine tooth circular saw blade. It can be pretty wobbly in a big sheet so you'll need a flat surface and someone to help hold it is always a plus.

Mech made a pretty indestructable frame for his to match the indestructable screen but you can get away with mounting it right to the wall if you want... but you won't be able to put up any cool back lighting if you do it that way.

[Sonnie]

I'll probably try the DW just for the fun of it.

My plan will be to simply cut it to fit my frame and glue it to the wall. Here's a pretty old picture, but it will give you some idea.

[wbassett]

Nice setup... dual subs?
What did you use for your frame border? It has a nice picture frame finish look to it.

That is pretty light. I didn't realize ME was that light. DW may look okay with the black levels then. From the picture it looks N9 in shade or lighter.

Here is what an N8 shade of gray looks like with no image.

Here is an excerpt from the upcoming laminate thread with all the testing and details...

Cutting and mounting Laminate
You can cut laminate material with a circular saw, saber saw, backsaw or utility knife. The saw blade should be a fine-tooth blade. Put a strip of masking tape where the cut line is to be made. This helps prevent chipping and makes the line easier to see.

When using a power circular saw or saber saw, cut from the back side of the laminate. These saws cut on the upstroke. Cutting from the back will help prevent chipping. On hand saws, cut from the front side at a low angle.

Important: Always cut the sheets of laminated plastic slightly oversized to allow for trimming and if you are going to drill any mounting holes. You can cover the extra with the trim border for a nice professional finish.

There are also special laminate cutting blades available to use with utility knives. Use a straightedge or a steel square to guide the knife for a smooth and even cut. Be extra careful to make one straight line. Sometimes the straightedge can slip and cause the blade to slip and go off the line. Just be careful and make a single score first. Don't try to go too deep with the first scoring, during the second pass you can apply more pressure and the blade will stay in the first scored groove better than if there was no score line at all.

Once you have the laminate scored, snap it on the scored line by lifting the shorter end and applying slight pressure. It should snap cleanly. As stated before, make the score a little bigger than what you want for your screen incase of chipping.

You can also cut laminated plastic sheets with a fine-tooth hand saw. If you own a router that will also work. Use an edge guide and you can get a very precise line cut. HG57 brings up a good point to file the edge down to remove any sharp spots. Even though it will be covered with trim, you don't want to get cut from a sharp edge while hanging it.

[Sonnie]

Thanks... yeah... dual subs about to be joined by the behemoth dual 15" LLT that's being built right now. It will be insanely crazy with bass in that room pretty soon.


Yeah... that shade of gray in your picture is much darker than mine. Most people look at my ME and think it's white, until you set something white next to it, then you can tell, but it's not much gray.



Are the laminates you guys referring to mostly the Formica brand?

[wbassett]

No, they are all Wilsonart. Is that the one you ordered? All the Formica colors didn't plot very well at all. I have a CIE plot on my other computer, I'll edit this post later to add that chart so you can see the what I mean and how different they are from Wilsonart.

I've looked at Wilsonart, Formica, Pionite, and Nevmar laminates and each time Wilsonart keeps coming out on top as far as color balance, surface texture, and sheen. I don't have any gain tests for anything but Wilsonart, but I can get that done if there is a lot of interest... but like I said the colors really don't look that good for screen use.

Here is a gain comparison for DW.

[Sonnie]

I haven't ordered yet, I wanted to make sure of the brand first. I missed that part earlier, or forgot it...