The Laminate Screen Thread (Data and detailed information)

[wbassett]

Thread Index

1. Introduction- Why Laminates
2. Initial Testing- Color Elimination and Durability Test
3. Color and Gain Data
4. Construction and Cutting
5. Border Options and Masking
6. Issues and Concerns
7. Screen Shots
8. Reserved
9. Q&A
10. Polyurethane How To

This first post will be updated with any new information and as a summary for what was discussed so far. Right now this thread is under construction and I am in the process of transposing the information. I literally have a Word document that is 100 pages long I am sorting through to put the information in a more concise and presentable format.

There is an index at the top of this post with links to the main thread topics. Also there is a tread that was created just for the purpose of showcasing people's laminate screens.

This all started out as a quest for a material over the 4x8 size that is common and readily available. If you want a larger screen though, finding a substrate larger than that can start to become tricky, but some solutions have been identified and they ended up being a surprise as to how well they performed.

There are numerous laminate manufacturers, currently Wilsonart is the primary manufacturer that is being used and has color analysis done. Other companies will be tested and color data collected as well, but the goal is to identify a suitable white, and ideally three shades of gray. These colors and manufacturers must be something that is readily available in any part of the country. Other sources will be investigated as well, such as Pionite, and Formica has had initial color testing done. They will be discussed in more detail later, but the short story is they didn’t test well as a good color for a screen.

It was decided more detailed color information was needed so a dialog was opened with Wilsonart, who put me in contact with their color lab. They provided color analysis, which has now been checked and tested for accuracy. That information will be covered in Section 3.

Below is a quick list of the colors that have had spectrophotometer testing done and their identifier numbers.

Color Codes
Wilsonart Colors
Designer White D354-60
Fashion Grey D381-60
Platinum D315-60 – Actual screen testing still in progress
Dove Grey D92-60 – Actual screen testing still in progress

Availability
To order Designer White, go to any Lowes or Home Depot and tell them you want Designer White D354-60, then the size sheet you want. It comes in 4x8, 5x8, 5x10, and 5x12 sheets. (The grays are also available in the same sizes)

Note: Home Depot and Lowes are listed by Wilsonart as authorized resellers. They are easy for most people to find, but they don’t usually have the best price. Typically the general purpose laminate we are talking about is $1.66 a square foot, but Lowes and Home Depot add on a $15-$20 ‘handling fee’. Some people have used the reseller locater on Wilsonart’s web site to find other sources in their area and they are usually much cheaper if available.


Delivery time seems to vary from one Home Depot to another, but typically it is two weeks tops. Most get their delivery every Thursday, so as long as you have your order placed Monday morning it should be in the following Thursday. Again this could vary from store to store.

The cheapest anyone has found it was in Maryland, which was around $36 for a 4x8 sheet.

Weight
General Purpose grade is .322 pounds per square foot = 10.3 pounds for a 4x8 sheet.

Post forming grade is .260 pounds per square foot = 8.32 pounds for a 4x8 sheet.

Vertical grade is .186 pounds per square foot = 5.95 pounds for a 4x8 sheet.

For larger sizes just do the math...

Verical grade laminate is .7mm thick (0.028”) and as such it would work best with a backing or mounted to the wall. If a frame is intended with the laminate attached to the frame then the general purpose grade is stiffer at 1.22mm (0.048”) and would not require a backing.

Paintable
I also checked the laminates to see if they could be used as a paint able substrate for those that want a painted screen solution. I know laminate can be painted from my reading through home remodeling sites, but they made it sound like a long involved process requiring sanding and special primers.

To change the color of it as a counter top yes, but as a screen it will not get the abuse a counter top or table top gets so no special primers were required. This of course decreases the durability, but it is doubtful a person is going to actually hose down and then freeze their screen anyway. It should be pointed out though that painting will negate the benefits of laminates and their outstanding performance. The question was asked as to if they could be painted, and I answered it. It did though show that we could introduce a clear poly coating if needed. That ended up resolving some hot spotting issues some people had with Fashion Grey. More on that and why it only happens with the grays in Section 6.

This was a good discovery because it also means that the grays may be an excellent material for advanced top coat paint methods which will utilize the gray as a pre-made durable base color. That will be explored in a separate thread as well. We are trying to keep this thread strictly to laminates as a single solution.

Cutting and mounting Laminate
You can cut laminate material with a circular saw, saber saw, backsaw or utility knife. The saw blade should be a fine-tooth blade. Put a strip of masking tape where the cut line is to be made. This helps prevent chipping and makes the line easier to see.

When using a power circular saw or saber saw, cut from the back side of the laminate. These saws cut on the upstroke. Cutting from the back will help prevent chipping. On hand saws, cut from the front side at a low angle.

Important: Always cut the sheets of laminated plastic slightly oversized to allow for trimming and if you are going to drill any mounting holes. You can cover the extra with the trim border for a nice professional finish.

There are also special laminate cutting blades available to use with utility knives. Use a straightedge or a steel square to guide the knife for a smooth and even cut. Be extra careful to make one straight line. Sometimes the straightedge can slip and cause the blade to slip and go off the line. Just be careful and make a single score first. Don't try to go too deep with the first scoring, during the second pass you can apply more pressure and the blade will stay in the first scored groove better than if there was no score line at all.

Once you have the laminate scored, snap it on the scored line by lifting the shorter end and applying slight pressure. It should snap cleanly. As stated before, make the score a little bigger than what you want for your screen in case of chipping.

You can also cut laminated plastic sheets with a fine-tooth hand saw. If you own a router that will also work. Use an edge guide and you can get a very precise line cut. A good point was brought up, and that is to file the edge down to remove any sharp spots. Even though it will be covered with trim, you don't want to get cut from a sharp edge while hanging it.

More detailed information will be discussed in Section 4.

Important Update: To prevent waves from uneven pressure when adhering the laminate to a frame, only glue the outside edges and not any cross braces. Or use a backer board.

That is the basics; more details will be presented in each of the sections. I like this type of outline because it allows people to easily find the basic information right up front in the first post, and then they can click links to get more in depth information if they are interested. I have seen forums and threads that because so unwieldy that it was virtually impossible to find any information. Mech is familiar with seeing this too I know… so we are both trying to learn from things and organize things better here on HomeTheaterShack. If anyone has any suggestions or something they would like to see, let us know. If we aren’t made aware of something we can’t fix it or make it better
________________________________________________________________________

So with the basics out of the way, again why laminates? Well I am a movie buff, and I like to watch big epic movies on a big screen. There certainly is nothing wrong with a 45x80 screen, but I had the room and wanted something larger. I immediately ran into a problem. Some of the options other people were using and recommending just weren’t available in my area. I found some places that would ship, but shipping costs were astronomical, in some cases the substrate was $60 and the company wanted $200 for shipping… so something had to be found that was relatively inexpensive and easy for anyone to get.

Well I found a place that sells Celtec and Sintra, some of the more popular substrates, but it wasn’t as cheap as what other's were getting it for, a 4x8 sheet was $85 for a MM thickness, a 6MM thickness will be $165. They said they possibly could get me a 5x10 sheet as well but they weren’t sure, but if they could they did say the price will be significantly higher.

They also had acrylic mirrors for $97 for a 4x8 sheet 8MM thick, 6MM jumps to almost $200. They would ship, but the cost was as much as the substrate or more.

Still though... no 5x10 material. I asked both Home Depot and Lowes if they could order MDF in sheets larger than 4x8, and they said no. This was getting discouraging. I couldn’t find a suitable substrate in the size I needed at a reasonable price anywhere. I thought about going with a material that came in 4x8 size sheets, but I'd be dropping from a 110" diagonal screen to a 98" diagonal screen. Sounds kinda trivial I know, but dropping from a 54x96 screen to a 48x85 screen is a 1,104 square inch viewing difference... Just to put that in perspective, that's bigger than the viewing area on my Toshiba 36inch TV.

That's a hard sale now isn't it?

The other thing I ran into was bias and ego. It seemed like every other week there was a new ‘mix of the week’ and everyone was recommending their solution as the one solution everyone should be using. Some were good, but some were down right awful.


Below is all done tongue in cheek and meant for fun...
________________________________________________
Imagine this pitch
Salesperson "Sir I'm sorry we don't have a screen in the size you want you'll have to settle for this one, it's smaller but much better... however I can't let you see it in person."

Reply "Why is it better?"

Salesperson "Because... I told you it was better just now."

Reply "Well what about those screens over there that are the right size?"

Salesperson "You don't want THOSE... that's a remote tab tensioned screen and not worth the money. Besides you can't see those in person either. Nyyaah..."

Reply "But I really like my 110" image and don't even know what the other one would look like or if I could even make it... $100 for the sheet, paint, sprayer, trim, velvet... gee that's starting to add up... how much was that screen again?"

Salesperson "$575 for the tab tension screen, and $245 for the fixed frame screen, but you really don't want those. Besides, I won't let you see those either unless you buy them, but I suggest you stay away from them."

Reply "Why?"

Salesperson "Well... it's a ‘manufactured’ screen that's why. Just settle for the smaller screen and you'll be happy... trust me... you'll like paint much better anyway"

Reply "Because it's cheaper or because it's better?"

Salesperson "Maybe"

Reply "Maybe what? Better or cheaper?"

Salesperson "Well you won't know now will you?! Nyyahh..."

Reply "I already have a DIY screen made with Behr Silver Screen, I just want to make a permanent screen that's better."

Salesperson "You used Silver Screen?"

Reply "Yeah, is there something wrong with it?"

Salesperson "It sucks."

Reply "No it doesn't."

Salesperson "Yes it does."

Reply "Okay WHY?"

Salesperson "Because I said so. You should have used a different mix. Don't you read?"

Reply "But lots of people have used Silver Screen and love it."

Salesperson "Yeah and 'lots of people' suck too! Like you for not using the right one."

Reply "Okay, so what mix should I use?"

Salesperson "Depends."

Reply "Depends on what?"

Salesperson "Depends on if you want your screen to suck or not."

Reply "Okay now you're just talking in circles... what is the best mix?"

Salesperson "I can't tell you that."

Reply "And why not?"

Salesperson "Because you have to decide that on your own. Besides, mixes change every week, so whatever you use now will suck next week anyway."

Reply "Now you're just making things up."

Salesperson "No I'm not. May I suggest crayons for your screen? I hear they are very popular with preschoolers."

Reply "Why does this have to be so frustrating?"

Salesperson "I don't know, you tell me. You're the one that wants your stupid silly 110" screen... now be off."

Reply "But I just want a piece of 5x10 plastic to make a screen."

Salesperson "I said you can't have one. Take the 4x8 and be gone!"

Reply "Okay I want the tab tension screen over there."

Salesperson "Can't have it."

Reply "Okay okay... I want the 4x8 acrylic mirror, a sprayer, some molding, velvet, paint, miscellaneous hardware to put the frame together and mount everything, how much will that be?"

Salesperson "Um... hmmm... mirror $97, decent sprayer, say, oh $80-90, wood for a frame $15 or so, paint, $30-40 if you don't screw it up little man and need more... or worse, you have to practice,… you stupid annoying person... now where was I... okay... that will be $237. Oh, I forgot the velvet and sales tax... wait for me to readjust that... Sir that will be $5,387,932.41... just kidding... That comes to $275 give or take a little."

Reply "WHAT?! Okay give me the fixed frame screen for $245."

Salesperson "NO"

News Headline: Breaking news... DIYer stuffs projector screen up salesman's behind... details at eleven!"
___________________________________________________________________

Of course that was in fun, but it sure did feel like that sometimes. My goal is to make things easy as well as show some performance data and screen shots, and then everyone can make up their own mind on which way they want to go. This thread is about laminates as screens, so naturally they will be the topic in here, but that isn’t saying or suggesting they are the only available option.

So without further adieu, Welcome to the Laminate Screen Thread!

[wbassett]

DIY Screens have come a long way from the days of bedsheets. The biggest change was one that happened around a year ago, and that was formal testing and color analyzing began. I am sure that there have been individuals that took their screen construction to the next level through extensive testing and getting formal color data readings done, but as far as I know if they did it was for their personal use and wasn't documented.

More information about color theory and testing is covered in a separate thread. It is worth mentioning though that the colors presented in this thread were not just 'eyeball' picked. I literally went through hundreds of laminate samples from a wide variety of companies. I checked Formica, Nevmar, Pionite, Wilsonart, and even the local no name brands carried at my local Home Depot. Wilsonart was the only one to have the nicest color balance and variety. Pionite White in the suede finish is an excellent choice too, but I could not find that in my area and I wanted to keep things to a material that anyone could easily obtain. Wilsonart met all those requirements.

Color was the first criteria. A lot of samples were discarded immediately. A visual inspection was enough to see some had a very strong color push in one direction or another. One thing I have learned over the years dealing with painting houses and other projects is that just because an item is listed at 'white' doesn't mean it is the type of white we want or need for a screen. A lot are off whites that are actually bluish, or duller and it really showed when samples were compared side by side.

Here are some shots of some of the final choices.

The Whites- From left to right are White 1570, Designer White D354, and Frosty White 1573



The Grays- From left to right are Fashion Grey, Platinum, and Dove Grey.

Note: Both the White and Gray samples are color scans of actual laminate material from the Wilsonart website and not a PhotoShop color swatch. It is easy to see why Designer White and Fashion Grey have been the number one choices. DW is extremely white compared to the bluish look of White, and the yellow tinge to Frosty White. Dove Grey is actually a nicely balanced darker gray and some current experimenting is being done with top coatings to see if it is a Firehawk replacement candidate.


Durability and the Torture Test
As a screen material laminate may be the most durable material that can be used.

Someone inquired about its suitability as an outdoor screen, so the Wilsonart samples were put through a series of ‘torture’ tests. First it was soaked in warm water for 24 hours to see if it would peel, bow, or show any signs of damage when exposed to water, and there were none.

Next the wet samples were placed in the freezer to see if after getting wet and then frozen they would crack or become brittle, again no damage whatsoever.

The only thing I know for certain that will damage it is heat. I know this because my wife ruined a table that had a wood laminate top when she placed a hot pan directly on the laminate. So you can make a screen out of laminate, go throw it in a lake if you want, and if a blizzard or ice age happens to hit, all you have to do is wipe it off and start watching movies again! Just don’t do your ironing on it or use it for a hotplate!

If you have kids and they decide to touch your screen and get gooky little hand prints all over it, just grab some Windex or your favorite spray cleaner and wipe it off (use the streak free formula, but basically anything you would use to clean your counter top would work, just make sure any residue is wiped up, just like you would cleaning your counters)… this is probably the most durable material anyone could use as a screen. I honestly don't know any other screen material, either commercial or DIY that could have passed even the first torture test. One person has a cat that likes to bat at the screen image and it eventually scratched the paint, unless it was a Saber Toothed Tiger I doubt a cat could damage a laminate screen... it really is that tough!

[wbassett]

Once some suitable color candidates had been identified it was time to get detailed information on them. I have an open dialog with both Wilsonart and Formica, and both companies have been fantastic to deal with. They provided the initial color information from their color labs, and then it was verified as well. I specifically went with a matte surface finish because that is what commercial screens have and it made sense to look at what they were doing as a model.

Here is the data of the Wilsonart samples. This is based on the C Illuminant, we are doing some testing and double checks of the color balance when referenced to D65.

Next is a graph of the data. We can see the characteristics of each sample.

This next graph really made people sit up and take notice. It is a gain chart with comparisons to some commercial screens. As far as I know or have seen, this is the first time a DIY method has gone through such rigorous testing and held to the same standards and specs that people use to judge commercial screens. Now there are many methods being tested and this type of data and specs presented, but as far as I know the laminates were the first to have this extensive type of testing done and presented.

[wbassett]

Cutting and mounting Laminate
You can cut laminate material with a circular saw, saber saw, backsaw or utility knife. The saw blade should be a fine-tooth blade. Put a strip of masking tape where the cut line is to be made. This helps prevent chipping and makes the line easier to see.

When using a power circular saw or saber saw, cut from the back side of the laminate. These saws cut on the upstroke. Cutting from the back will help prevent chipping. On hand saws, cut from the front side at a low angle.

Important: Always cut the sheets of laminated plastic slightly oversized to allow for trimming and if you are going to drill any mounting holes. You can cover the extra with the trim border for a nice professional finish.

There are also special laminate cutting blades available to use with utility knives. Use a straightedge or a steel square to guide the knife for a smooth and even cut. Be extra careful to make one straight line. Sometimes the straightedge can slip and cause the blade to slip and go off the line. Just be careful and make a single score first. Don't try to go too deep with the first scoring, during the second pass you can apply more pressure and the blade will stay in the first scored groove better than if there was no score line at all.

Once you have the laminate scored, snap it on the scored line by lifting the shorter end and applying slight pressure. It should snap cleanly. As stated before, make the score a little bigger than what you want for your screen in case of chipping.

You can also cut laminated plastic sheets with a fine-tooth hand saw. If you own a router that will also work. Use an edge guide and you can get a very precise line cut. A good point was brought up, and that is to file the edge down to remove any sharp spots. Even though it will be covered with trim, you don't want to get cut from a sharp edge while hanging it.

Routers can also be used to get a very clean cut and edge. I do not have a router and did not use one myself, but if you have one and the right bit you certainly can use that as well.

One important warning: After cutting the laminate the edge may be extremely sharp. Be careful or it is easy to get cut. If the edge is sharp, use a fine tooth file to take the edge off and after that it should be fine to handle with no fear or slicing and dicing your hands.

Mounting
Mounting can be as easy as finding the studs and predrilling some small holes and then nailing it to the studs, to some pretty sophiticated custom mounts that allow for rope lighting to be mounted on the back of the frame.

Mirror Clips have also been used by some people. Here are the two most common ones, they are around $5 at Lowes or Home Depot.

Some people have used Velcro, but my long term experience with it is the Velcro itself holds together like crazy, but I found that over time the adhesive backing can lose it's grip and come loose. I supposed a couple of nails or wire brads could help, but I wouldn't want to see someone's laminate screen and border come crashing down a year after they put it up. It's better safe to warn about this potential problem than have someone get their screen or equipment damaged if it ever was to come loose and fall.

Here is a pegboard mounting method. It can be a bit of overkill, but makes for a very solid screen. The pegboard also provides premade mounting holes which is a nice plus. The best type of adhesive to use is what they recomend for gluing laminate to counter tops... after all it is laminate and it's best to use what is recomended and known to work. Some people have tried Liquid Nails, but I would not recommend that. It is kind of thick and sets pretty quick. It has also caused some people to have bumps or ripples because it wasn't completely smooth. Laminate adhesive works like a champ, and like the saying goes, if something's not broke... don't fix it! Tip-- You can use old venician blind slats or long dowel rods to keep the laminate slightly off the backing surface and adhesive. This will allow you to make sure it is positioned correctly and evenly. Pull the slats and then used something like a rolling pin wrapped in a towel to press the laminate flat and to work out any air bubbles. If done right there will be no air pockets or any ripples to be seen on the front.

Here is the pegboard overkill method

Mechman's Frame and Rope Lighting Setup
Next up will be Mechman's backing frame and border.

This is just a simple rectangular frame with another rectangular frame inside of it to support the rope lights. There is one center brace in the middle. On the edge of the inner frame I attached a 1X2 to bump the screen out a bit from the wall and to attach the rope lighting. The whole frame was done in 'cabinet grade' 1X4 poplar. This was done to prevent any warping. You could use a lesser grade but I would make all of the cuts first and then seal the wood before putting it together.



The laminate was attached to this frame using 3M High Strength 90 adhesive (green can). To do this you spray the framing and the laminate with the adhesive and then wait for it to dry (about 10 minutes). After it dries you would set up dowels every 8-10 inches or so - I used 6 broom handles - on the frame and then lay the laminate on top. Line it up as best you can and then start removing the dowels on one side ensuring good contact and no waves. Work your way to the other end. One thing I did when I cut my laminate and built my frame, was I made each side 2 inches larger than it needed to be. That way I had a little 'wiggle room in case of screw-ups. This excess was covered by my velvet frame (1X3 maple frame).

You probably noticed that all joinery was done with pocket holes for my frame. This was just my preference. You could use 'L' brackets just as well.

One other note for the rope lighting - my original design was to have the lights approximately 6 inches inside the edge of the frame. I have since remounted them to the outer frame approximately 1.5 inches from the edge. 6 inches in was not giving me the desired effect I was looking for.


The Foam Backer
I don't have a picture of this stuff, but when I find one I will post it as an update. Lowes and Home Depot have a pink foam insulation board that is 4x8 in size. It's light weight and easy to cut two pieces to the exact size of the laminate (if a smaller screen is used then only on 4x8 sheet will be needed)

I haven't used this method personally, but a few people have and they have reported that it makes for a very light weight yet strong/rigid screen. I will provide more information on this shortly.

Mounting Hardware
French Cleats are by far the best and strongest way to mount a laminate screen that has a back frame or if it is mounted to a piece of MDF or plywood.

I like this one the best myself. It has a built in level so you are assured of getting it nice and straight, and these can hold a tremendous amount of weight.

Once you have the wall mount up and level, mount the other half to the back frame or board and then hanging the entire thing is a breeze.

A French Cleat or some people call them a 'Hangman Mount' can also be made out of a 2x4. It's easiest if you have a table saw to do this. Cut the board at a 45 degree angle down the center lengthwise. The two pieces should fit together very similar to the commercial French Cleat setup. One thing to not is that it will be thicker than the store bought version, so you will also need to mount a 2x4 along the bottom of the screen frame, or to the wall so that the bottom and top of the screen are extended from the wall the same distance. The nice thing about this method if it does leave a 2" gap so it should be possible to rig some rope lights if desired.



Next up is a screen made by skijunkie. He went with an aluminum frame, which turned out very nice and is not only light weight, but also very professional looking.

The following is reposted with his permission.

100" Screen Frame
(Captions Below Pictures)

Corner L Bracket

Center Brace T Bracket

Completed Frame (2 87" horizontal pieces, 4 47" vertical pieces)

Completed Frame w/ 1" foam tape attached

Corner closeup w/ foam tape attached.
You can see I put small pieces of wood into the hollow tubing to give the screws something to really bite into.

Uncut Designer White Laminate (5'x8').

Laminate attached and routed to frame size.

Back side of finished screen

And a closeup screen shot showing that the fine texture of the laminates do not show up when viewing a movie. (Some people have asked question about that, but keep in mind that even commercial screens have texture... some quite a bit actually)

(Thanks skijunkie for allowing me to repost your excellent work using an aluminum frame.)

[wbassett]

Masking
There are various masking methods that many people use, all of which will work with this type of screen. One very unique method that works very well with laminates is the use of Rare Earth Magnets.

This could be used for other screens, but they work especially well with the laminates (both the vertical grade and general purpose thicknesses will work) Magnets can be attached to the back of the laminate and then masking panels can be made with additional magnets or metal strips attached to the back of the mask. Since the surface of the laminate is virtually indestructible this works without any damage to the screen. It would still be recommended to wrap any metal strips with a thin cloth to prevent any potential scratching. As tough as the laminates are there is still no sense in abusing it.

For those that are using the polyurethane, it does provide a tougher surface than paint alone but it is still susceptable to scratches and marring. I am currently experimenting with floor sealers and finishes that dry crystal clear and are extremely durable.

This should also work with cloth screens, but I would not recommend it for any screen that has a delicate surface that can be easily damaged.

[wbassett]

As with anything, there are always pros and cons. This post is to address a few of the problems identified with laminate screens.

Mounting Issues and Waves
First I want to address waves. Not because that is the biggest issue, rather it's a quick discussion and then we can get on to the lengthier discussion.

This is an interesting one. When laminates were first presented, nobody was reporting any issues with this, myself included. Recently there have been some people complaining of 'waves' in their screens.

I have noticed that some people were leaving the laminate tightly rolled and in an unheated garage or basement for extended periods of time. Laminates are very durable, but I wouldn't recommend leaving anything rolled in an un-natural position for long periods of time. I suspect that could be part of the problem. The other things that could be adding to any wave issues are what type of adhesive is being used, how the nails or screws are being spaced and things like that. If you are going to glue your laminate to a backer board or frame, only use laminate adhesive. It's specially made for laminates and doesn't clump or lay heavy.

Another potential reason is using vertical laminate instead of the thicker general purpose laminate. Vertical should be fine, but it is thinner and when gluing it, a person needs to make sure there are no air bubbles. If a backer board is not desired, only use the general purpose grade. There is more detailed information about mounting laminates in the mounting post so I am not going to recover everything here.

Hot Spotting
Gain, hot spotting, and other common terms are discussed in more detail in the Data and Testing thread.

To summarize a few things,
Screen Gain- In general terms, screen gain is the ratio of the amount of light reflected from the screen to the amount of light incident upon it. "Unity gain" (a gain of 1.0) means there is no net loss or increase in the amount of light reflected from the screen compared with the amount of light hitting it.

A gain greater than 1.0 means that the amount of light reflected from the screen is greater than the amount of light hitting it. How can this be? A screen is a passive device; it doesn't actually amplify anything. It produces "gain" by focusing more of the light toward the center of the viewing area, presumably where most of the audience is sitting. This results in a brighter image on- or slightly off-axis, but a dimmer image as you move further to the sides. High-gain screens can also have hot spots; that is, they look obviously brighter in the center than at the sides. The higher the gain, the more pronounced the hot spot.

Viewing Cone-Screens have a radius in which your audience can see the image without being too dark; this is your viewing cone. You do not usually want people outside your viewing cone.

The viewing cone and screen gain work very closely to one another. The higher the gain the smaller the viewing cone and the brighter the image. Now the bright the image does not necessary mean it's a better image. If you have a matte white screen with a 1.35 gain and have a very bright projection, your image will be too bright (but this is also dependent on the size of the screen, how far the projector is, and ambient light).

Hot Spotting- Is the tendency of single source projection to over saturate the screen's center, leaving the peripheries darker.

Below is a good example of extreme hot spotting. Most will never see it anything as bad as this, but it does show what hot spotting is so people know what to look for.

Here's another good example of hot spotting. This is Pearl Silver in a crystal finish (Crystal finish is NOT recommended). The background screen is my Fashion Grey. The photo was taken from 14 feet back with the flash (an excellent way to determine whether or not a screen material will hot spot). The glare in the middle right of the screen was off of the glass table in between myself and the screen. Can you see the flyswatter?



Specularity- Having the qualities of a speculum, or mirror; having a smooth, reflecting surface; as, a specular metal; a specular surface.

Designer White tested out as an extremely good screen, but it lacked good performance with ambient lighting. Fashion Grey was tested to have an extremely well balanced gray color, and also being in the matte finish it was an excellent choice to use for a screen. An added benefit was that it is in the same color and shade range as the much more expensive Grayhawk commercial screens.

Initially the results people were reporting were very good. Then it happened... a few people were reporting issues with hot spotting. At first this was puzzling. Fashion Gray is darker than Designer white, and has a lower gain than Designer White (FG's gain is between .85 and .9) and it is in the same matte finish... so how is it that it was hot spotting and Designer White wasn't?

The reason is the specular gain.

I have actually talked to the labs and tech department at both Wilsonart and Formica.

I was talking to both companies about custom color orders and they went through the process of how they make the laminates. I can assure everyone the -60 matte surface of the Wilsonart laminates is the same no matter what the underlying paper color is.

Fashion Grey doesn't have a higher sheen, just that the overall percentage of the specularity is going to be higher as compared to the base colors of Fashion Grey and Designer White.

To explain why, let's look at Designer White first.


Now let's take a look at Fashion Grey.

The pie charts as a whole represent the total gain. With the same surface coating for each, what changes is the ratio's of the specularity to the surface color and the basic gain of the color. If the coating remains the same, and the color gain decreases, then the ratio of specularity goes up even though the coating hasn't changed or added extra sheen.

So even though the surface coating is the same for both materials, it makes up a high percentage of the overall specular gain for Fashion Grey than it does with Designer White. With more of the gain being from the coating, the specularity has increased, and that can increase the possibility of hot spotting.

Luckily there is a way to resolve this problem if it is encountered. The laminates act as a reflective screen, meaning the reflecting angle equals the incident angle. Think of it like a pool table and making a bank shot... The projector's light strikes the surface and is reflected towards the viewer (for a ceiling mounted projector, which is the most common setup). Some of the light is diffused and spread out over the surface of the screen, but most is directed towards the viewer. If a coat of matte polyurethane is put on the entire screen surface, the screen becomes more diffusive in nature and the light from the projector is now spread more evenly across the screen.

The recommended polyurethane coating to use if this is an issue is Behr's Crystal Clear water-based polyurethane in the matte finish, No. 780.

Overall the issues encountered have been by only a few people and under certain circumstances. Luckily they are very easy to rectify. If anyone has any problems or issues, ask... most of the time there is already an answer, and if it is a new problem rest assured that it will be checked into and a solution found.

**A new issue has come up. If your screen is exposed to a lot of sunlight, whether it be in a brightly lit room from daylight or direct sunlight, there is a chance Behr Clear Matte Poly will yellow over time. **

The solution is to find an acrylic matte poly such as American Traditions Faux Acrylic Flat Latex Clear Protector #64675 (Quart) from Lowes or Pratt & Lambert: Interior Acrylic Latex Varnish Dull Finish Z39 / Z39C. Thanks to tiddler for finding these products!

[wbassett]

Fashion Grey


Here are a couple of screen shots of Designer White

[wbassett]

Place Holder

[wbassett]

Like the post title says... from here on out will be the main discussion of laminates. Ask any questions, make your comments, and most of all relay any experiences or methods you may have come up with.

[wbassett]

The finish in bold is what was tested and the data samples taken from for the Wilsonart Samples. This is not saying other finish types won't work, just that no data has been done on them. The goal is to come up with a reasonable list of screen options and provide data on them.

Finishes

Wilsonart
#1 High Gloss
A mirror sheen finish which gives a smooth, brilliant appearance. Excellent for any vertical application. Laminates with a high gloss finish can be used for horizontal application only in light use areas. We recommend that it not be used on horizontal work surfaces such as countertops. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 100 +/- 10.

#7 Textured Gloss
A textured finish which reproduces the high sheen of waxed wood furniture. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Available only on those designs for which it is the standard finish. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 36 +/- 3.

#35 Mirage
A lightly textured finish featuring subtle variations in matte and glass, creating the illusion of depth. Available only in the WilsonartHD product line; not available on other patterns or colors. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 50 +/- 20.

#38 Fine Velvet Texture
A smooth textured finish with moderate reflective value. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Available only on those designs for which it is the standard finish. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 14 +/- 2.

#50 Touchstone
A pebbled texture with the look and feel of coarse-grained sand. Recommended for vertical and non-writing horizontal surfaces in residential and commercial applications. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 10 +/- 2.

#52 Quarry
Premium finish emulating the “pitted” look of polished natural stone. Available on a select number of designs only. Glossometer reading: MD 55 +/- 5.

#60 Matte
Textured finish with a moderate reflective quality. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 10 +/- 2.

#90 Crystal
A very finely beaded texture that minimizes smudges and finger marks and improves scratch resistance. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 13 +/- 3.

NOTE: Glossometer readings are made at a 60 degree angle of incidence. MD refers to the machine direction of a laminate sheet, and CD refers to the cross direction.


Finish Availability: Not all finishes are available in all patterns/colors. Some finish options have limited size availability. That statement applies to both Formica and Wilsonart.

This wasn't an indexed item, but there have been some recent issues and questions about what surface people should be getting. The matte finish, #60 is the only recommended finish. There may be others that look good, but the surface texture and sheen will have a dramatic impact on picture quality and hot spotting.

Also I want to mention the colors again. I spent a lot of time going through all the samples and narrowed them down to the ones presented and that people are using. That is not to say people aren't allowed to experiment, just saying that the ground work has been done and there was a reason why certain colors were chosen and others were not.

The standard grade color, and general purpose grade (thickness) are also the recommended laminates.

The standard color grade is made from paper that has one solid color, other grades have multiple colors and even though they look minute, the can wreak havok as a screen... causing sparklies during bright scenes and fast panning scenes.

Some people have used vertical grade laminate, but it is thinner than the general purpose grade and definitely will require some type of backer board to make it lay flat. General purpose can and has been hung directly on the wall with mirror clips (as shown above) or with just screws into the wall.

[wbassett]

Seeing that there is always a lot of interest in the different laminate colors I thought I would put this link up for all of Wilsonart's Solid Series Colors.

Out of this list I have had samples of:

Designer White D354-60 -- sampled and tested, recommended for a white screen and very comparable to a Carada screen. There are numerous Designer White screens shown in the Screen Showcase.

White 1570-60 -- sampled and color tested. Has a blue push. Nobody I know of is using this and I do not recommend it. If a white screen is desired DW is what I personally would recommend.

Frosty White 1573-60 -- I have a sample but didn't bother to color test it or go any further with this. It looked like an off white to me and visually just did not look as good as the other whites.

Grey 1500-60 -- sampled and tested. Has a very slight red lean but nothing that shouldn't be able to easily be calibrated for.

Fashion Grey D381-60 -- sampled and tested. Shown to perform well with room lighting on, but still not what I would call a true ambient light screen... definitely ambient incandescent light friendly though. There are Fashion Grey screens shown in the Screen Showcase. Very close match in color to a Grey Hawk. FG- 195 188 194, Grayhawk- 194 188 196.

Platinum D315-60 -- sampled and color tested. This is an extremely nice color, slightly darker than Fashion Grey and in between a Firehawk and Grayhawk in color and shade. Only a few have tried this yet which is a shame, it looks very nice for a darker screen but not quite as extreme as a Firehawk. Color values 186 179 187.

Dove Grey D92-60-- sampled and color tested. A few people have gotten samples to test, but so far no extensive testing has been done. This is another very nice darker gray. Dove Grey is darker than Platinum and closer to the shade of a Firehawk but with a nicer color balance. DG- 167 163 168, Firehawk- 150 148 159. (Note: These darker shades are close color matches only. There is more to creating a Firehawk clone than just matching the color...)

Pewter D73-60-- have a sample. Immediately discarded it as unusable.

North Sea D90-60-- have a sample. This is a lot darker than Dove Grey and even a Firehawk. Probably too dark for anything but a 3000+ lumen light cannon. No color sampling was taken.

Featherstone D72-60-- have a sample. Immediately discarded it as unusable. Nowhere near as nice looking as the other grays.

Pepperdust D327-60-- have a sample. Immediately discarded it as unusable. Nowhere near as nice looking as the other grays.



Other Laminate Samples I have

Pionite -- This is a very nice looking laminate too that could be an alternative for those that can't find a good Wilsonart distributor. No color sampling has been done on any of these yet.

Angel White SW 826-- Suede finish, nice looking white. Untested

Ice White SW813-- Suede Finish, very nice looking white. I do know some people that are using this as a screen and it performs exceptionally well and is on par with DW for performance.

White SW811-- Suede finish, very nice and very bright white in appearance. Untested.

Ash Gray SG254 -- Suede finish, nice light gray that looks to be in the Munsell N9 range as far as shade. This really needs a closer look. It is between FG and DW in color and shade.

Folkstone Gray SG241-- Suede finish. Looks close in shade to FG but not as nice, visually it appears to have a slight blue look... very slight but that's what I see.

Dolphin Gray SG246-- Suede finish. Very blue look, unusable.

Opti Gray SG213-- Suede finish. Decent looking gray, but the others look nicer.


Formica-- I have talked to the technical department and color lab at Formica and they were very excited about its potential for this usage. They were extremely cooperative and full color data was provided but as of this date I know nobody that has tested them.

White 949-58-- 58 denotes the matte finish for Formica. Color value 229 238 249.

White 949-42-- 42 denotes the sparkle finish that someone was curious about so I picked up a sample. It has more texture and sheen than the matte finish. The sparkle effect of the surface will cause 'sparklies' when an image is projected on it, and be especially noticeable during fast panning scenes.

Neutral White 918-58-- Color value 222 227 228. Darker than DW but not enough that I would think there would be any noticeable improvements in blacks. Personally I wouldn't recommend it.

Bright White 949-58-- Color value 225 237 247. Bright looking white like the name says.

Folkstone 927-58-- Color value 185 193 200. Somewhere between Fashion Grey and Platinum(Wilsonart's Platinum) in color, but not as nice of a color balance.

Platinum 902-58-- Color value 171 174 176. No additional testing or comparisons done yet.

Fog 961-58-- Color value 156 163 169. No additional testing or comparisons done yet. There are nicer darker grays in my opinion.


I also have samples of Wilsonart's metal laminate series as well as some 3M films, a sample from Walltalkers, and some very interesting samples from Holo Systems including their HoloVega screen. When I sent the Wilsonart samples off to be analyzed I also included some interesting looking films, but they did not show any potential.

I get a lot of questions about other laminates and colors all the time. Of course thinking outside of the box is encouraged, but some of the samples have already been identified as well as initial testing done. There are a slew of very nice laminates listed above with excellent potential. I haven't had the time or money to do extensive testing on them all in larger size screens. I keep the first post updated, so if any of the laminates from the list above are fully tested and prove to be on par with the currently used laminates I will provide an update there.

Wilsonart Platinum was identified but so only a couple of people are using it. It is a matte finish and very close to a Grayhawk but a bit darker. Wilsonart Platinum comes standard in a matte finish so it has a very good finish and will perform comparable to Fashion Grey.

[mechman]

Let me start off by saying that this isn't rocket science. It's simple to do as long as you're prepared to roll the polyurethane on and do so quickly.

First off you'll need some Behr Clear Matte Polyurethane #780. At Home Depot it's usually located in the paint section by the faux finishes. IIRC it costs around $25. Or if your screen will be exposed to a lot of sunlight, go with one of the acrylic poly's mentioned above - bottom of post #6. Next you'll need painting equipment. You'll need a roller and roller pan. The nap on your roller cover should be 1/4 inch or less. I was told to use 3/16 but I couldn't find any so I ended up using the 6 inch hot dog foam rollers. You will also need a worklight set up at an angle to the screen. I used a dual 500 watt halogen worklight set up on a tripod. This is very important as setting it up in this way helps to show any deficiencies in your rolling.



One quart of the poly could probably coat 4 100" screens. I have two coats on mine as I screwed up the first coat.

My first coat was done with the screen laying on the floor and the second coat with it hanging on the wall. I think on the wall was much easier than laying flat on the ground. It was also easier to spot the errors and fix them. Plus it's a bit easier on the back. You basically want to roll it like you'd roll a wall, top to bottom, overlapping the previous section by about a third or so. The main things you want to avoid and watch are the roller sliding - which is when the roller isn't rolling - and the seam between each pass. These both will show up in your projected image and they are easy to spot with the light to the side of the screen.

You can read the DIY Painted Screen Thread - Preparation and Painting . It offers much better insight into the art of rolling.

mech

[wbassett]

I just read on another forum where someone went to Home Depot and was told Designer White is not longer made. I want to assure everyone that Designer White is indeed still one of Wilsonart's main laminate colors and will remain available in the -60 matte finish.

In addition to it being used for countertops in home construction and kitchen renovations, they know it is being used as screens and see an increase in sales for full size sheets.

I just wanted to make sure anyone that may have read that knows it is not true, Wilsonart did not discontinue DW.

[DougMac]

Formica 949-58, White Matte

I was directed to a local wholesale countertop manufacturer to discuss Wilsonart Designer White.

It turns out they are no longer a Wilsonart supplier. I told the young lady I was constructing a HT screen and was after DW. She said, "Oh, Formica 949-58 is very close to DW". She gave me a sample and told me a 5x8 sheet was $66.

I came back to this thread and read the numbers obtained from Formica and it looks like there may be a blue push.

I decided to do my own very unscientific test. I have a WhiBal card I use for digital photography. It's a calibrated neutral color card. I placed it along with the Formica sample on my scanner and imported them into Photoshop. Here's my results:

The WhiBal card did indeed come out neutral on my Epson scanner, with RGB readings of 178 179 179. The Formica reads 250 247 250, which is pretty **** neutral. I'm ignoring the brightness readings because I'm not sure about the scanners auto exposure. I had gone by Lowe's to get a DW sample, but they didn't have any. I wish I could have compared. I'll try Home Depot next time I'm that way.

At that price, I'm tempted to try the Formica. I might stop by and see if they have a scrap, but I'm not close enough to do projection testing.

Doug

[cynical2]

Good luck, Doug! Let us know how it turns out. To my knowledge, no one has tested a full Formica screen, so we'll be interested in your observations.

I have no idea what to tell you about the color readings you got vs what the manufacturer claims. I know there's been a lot of discussion in the past about using scanners to accurately measure color. In fact an effort was made at a California university to try to make it work, and they weren't able to get accurate/consistent readings. So, let us know if you see a blue push or not. Even if you do, the pj can likely calibrate out of the push (as long as it's not too bad). And, in the grand scheme of things, it's a cheap experiment.

[DougMac]

cynical2 wrote:

I have no idea what to tell you about the color readings you got vs what the manufacturer claims. I know there's been a lot of discussion in the past about using scanners to accurately measure color. In fact an effort was made at a California university to try to make it work, and they weren't able to get accurate/consistent readings.

I noticed in PS with the eye dropper, I was getting some small variations according to where I read the image. I can't remember how wide (pixels read) I had the eye dropper set for. I can see if it was small enough that given the pixel patterns, I could land where it was reading a few extra pixels of a particular color. I felt that scanning a known target, the calibrated WhiBal card, that a comparison to the reference would get me pretty close.

Before I did the scan, I expected to have to adjust the image to get the reference to neutral. No post processsing adjustment was needed!

Since I'm planning to buy from a countertop fabricator, I'm going to ask them if they have facilities to glue the laminate to a substrate in such a large size. I figured if the price was right< say ~$50 or less excluding materials, it would be much easier just to get them to do it.

Doug