Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

**wbassett** · **06-28-07, 05:46 PM**

Hey biglyle, welcome to HTS!!

Boy have I been looking for someone like you... someone that knows how to spray!

I know you are very familiar with the paint industry, you wouldn't happen to have a colorimeter would you? I saw your post about this and it sounds very nice. I'd like to get some specs on it and add it to the list of available grays. If this is between N8 and N9, N8.5 is pretty much the perfect general purpose shade that people with low lumen or higher lumen projectors can both use with excellent performance.

Who sells Dulux? Is it sold through distributors or do they have their own store like Sherwin Williams?

The lb and yellow oxide is similar to how Gray Screen is made. It seems from everything I have seen that raw umber mucks up things more than it helps make a balanced gray.

Anyway, welcome aboard! We look forward to seeing your ideas.

**biglyle** · **06-28-07, 09:59 PM**

Hey Bill, good to see you.

Glidden Paint stores here in Canada carry the Dulux line, specifically the Diamond matt. The diamond matt contains some form of ceramic material that allows it to dry with a matte finish and still be highly washable. It is also a very white paint that applies very easily and drys nice and smooth.

I look forward to the open mindedness this board offers, it will be a welcome change.

As for my work, I am starting from scratch pretty much, and hope to be a lot more "out of the box" with my thinking this time around.

**wbassett** · **06-28-07, 10:35 PM**

ceramics... Sherwin Williams also has a matte finish that is extremely durable.

Glidden and Behr are the same company and Glidden is sold at Home Depot, I'm going to look for this over the weekend.

**biglyle** · **06-29-07, 06:28 AM**

I am pretty sure HD sells this as well.
Its Called "Diamond Matt"

Its a little pricey, but hey, if it works.

**wbassett** · **06-29-07, 07:41 AM**

Sherwin Williams is too, $42 a gallon for the Duration brand, but it also works very good too.

**biglyle** · **06-29-07, 03:53 PM**

I was at HD today and they do sell the DULUX line of paints, just not the Diamond Matt. I was told that that line is Glidden store specific.

I am also very interested in try some of the Pratt & Lambert paint. I will be their tomorrow and will look for a nice white, matte finish in the Accolade line. This line is easily the best paint on the market for sheer quality. It dries roller mark free no matter how poorly you apply it. It blows me away with how good it dries. Problem is its $65 a gallon and like $29 a quart. But what the hell.

**wbassett** · **06-29-07, 03:59 PM**

$29 a quart isn't bad if it works as is. A lot of people spend double that or more on gathering various mix components and doing tests.

I do have color values on Pratt & Lambert.

**biglyle** · **06-29-07, 04:43 PM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

I do have color values on Pratt & Lambert.

Are they posted anywhere? If so, where can I find them?

**Tiddler** · **06-29-07, 05:55 PM**

Hey Biglyle,

What about your white roof paint. It is meant to be very reflective right? Is it tintable?

I still have not tried yor idea of top coating the Behr Primer #436 yet. I thought I would make up two mor 2'x4' sample panels. Then I will try an 8' x 4' screen without the poly to see how it does as far as hot spotting goes.

With the Pratt & Lambert paint, does it also level out so that there is very little roller texture?

**biglyle** · **06-29-07, 06:01 PM**

The roof paint was Bruce's, not mine.

The P&L dries almost like it was sprayed.

**Tiddler** · **06-29-07, 06:06 PM**

I guess we will have to rattle Bruce's cage then.

Sounds like the P&L is worth the extra cost.

**mechman** · **06-29-07, 06:24 PM**

Quote:

tiddler wrote:

I thought I would make up two mor 2'x4' sample panels.

What do use for panels Todd?

**Tiddler** · **06-29-07, 07:30 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

What do use for panels Todd?

They sell 1/8" thick hardboard panels at Home Depot. They have a white coating on one side. Here is a photo of four panels hanging.

**mechman** · **06-29-07, 08:52 PM**

Are they pretty cheap? Are they with the lumber?

**wbassett** · **06-29-07, 08:59 PM**

All the Home Depots I have seen them in they are along the back wall behind the lumber. There is a wooden rack with different types of 'project boards' in it. They are pretty inexpensive and great test panels.

**biglyle** · **06-29-07, 09:08 PM**

I buy the half size ones. I bought a few today, $1.35 a piece.

**Tiddler** · **06-29-07, 09:20 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

Are they pretty cheap? Are they with the lumber?

Here in Ottawa Canada they are about $2.50 for a 2'x4' and around $1.75 for 2'x2'. I like the bigger 2'x4' so that I can get an idea if the screen paint will hot spot. Also this allows me some trial of application. I roll the long way to simulate doing a section of screen.

For my initial trials I use white 22"x28" poster board (bristleboard) that I cut into 7"x11" cards. I apply the test paint with 4" trim rollers for these small sample cards. These were a nice to work with and send off for color testing. You can get some idea of how the paint will perform from these but anything that looks promising I repaint a 2'x4' panel or two.

**wbassett** · **06-30-07, 11:12 AM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

I do have color information on Pratt Lambert

Quote:

biglyle wrote:

Are they posted anywhere? If so, where can I find them?

Sorry, I didn't see this post... I must have scrolled right by it!

Go here and you can put in a color value and look for a match in a variety of brands.

**biglyle** · **06-30-07, 12:46 PM**

Thanks Bill.

**Harry Muscle** · **07-05-07, 02:56 PM**

WBassett, I haven't finished reading the whole thread yet, however, can I ask which projector you are using? I know you mentioned it's an old business projector but I was curios to know the model. I was gonna look up the specs of it to see how it might compare against my planned Benq w100 that I will be getting next week. Your daytime shots look amazing and if the Benq w100 is similar in light output to your projector and I might actually get similiar results to yours then I'm really thinking of using the same paint.

Thanks for all the research,
Harry

P.S. One more thing ... what size is your screen?

**mechman** · **07-05-07, 03:23 PM**

Harry,

I think your Benq is similar to my Misubishi HC3000. I believe Bill's projector is a LCD. Don't quote me on that though!

**wbassett** · **07-05-07, 04:38 PM**

It's a PG-C30XU, 1700 Lumens, 250:1 CR

I am working on getting a Panasonic PT-AX100U, but may be holding off now since the 1080p projectors are starting to come down in price.

My current screen is a 52x92" screen. You'd be hitting that with around 14fL of light in the same setup I have which is the same as what I am hitting my screen with. So you definitely can handle an N8 shade which is what Gray Screen is, but I wouldn't go any darker than that. I tend to refer the Munsell shades when talking about projector Lumens and screen shades. That way you know what is the maximum darkness shade you can use but it isn't referring you to any one specific DIY method. From there you can look at all the methods that are in that shade range and pick the one you like the most or feel the most comfortable building.

How much ambient light do you expect to have? You may have already mentioned that, and sorry if you did. If you aren't expecting massive amounts and only some incandescent lighting on at times, you may want to err on the safe side and go with an N8.5 shade.

Some of the N8 shades are Wilsonart Fashion Grey, Sherwin William's Gray Screen, True Value Winter Mountain, and Todd can answer which of the EasyFlex tints are in the N8 range. I really can't tell you what the color composition, Munsell equivalent, or color balance is on any of the advanced mixes you see out there. The people that developed those should be able to tell you more information on them, I haven't had any formally tested yet.

For N8.5 shades, I don't have any OTS colors I know of right now, but there is probably an EasyFlex shade in that range. I can tell you how to make one though

One thing to keep in mind is there may need some very slight tweaking with some of the simple methods, but the tweaks are not difficult... mainly things like adding a poly coat to Fashion Grey to eliminate any hot spotting or warm spotting. Or a poly coat to a simple OTS paint to boost the gain a little. It has been found that the people that have tried poly on the neutral/near neutral grays were not all happy with the results. Yes it lowers the specular gain on laminates, but with the paints it has been shown to smooth out small green or blue color pushes which indicates it does an overall color shift. The reason people may not have liked it with something like Winter Mountain is WM is almost dead on neutral at D65. In this case the poly most likely moved it away from neutral unlike SS which it moves it closer to neutral, does that make sense?

**Harry Muscle** · **07-05-07, 08:36 PM**

The projector will be setup in the basement, which has a 6' x 5' sliding door window which is frosted glass. The rest of the lighting is provided by dimmable incandescent lighting. However since this will be replacing my TV I really like having the option of watching without having to dim all the lights down real low hence my quest for a screen that deals good with ambient light. Btw, the room is 16 x 16 with yellow walls and a white ceiling (low ceiling of 7') in case that matters.

After having read a lot of your information the ony thing that concerns me now about the EasyFlex color is the fact that it's not as neutral and I like your comments about having a screen with less red to it since it helps balance out the incandescent lighting, which when dimmed looks very red.

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. I'm gonna play around with that RGB Match calculator to see if I can find something close to N8.5 ... I did actually find something closer to ~8.7, I think (219 222 222 - called Iced Cube Silver in Benjamin Moore paint).

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