Is the "Gray Screen" my best option?

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-16-07, 09:46 PM**

I have finally decided on my projector purchase and will be picking it up tomorrow.
Mitsubishi HC1500.
My room has some ambient light during the day that can be semi-controlled and at night time is pitch black.
I watch sports in HD on the weekends and movies and HD programming on weekday nights.
I have the Sherwin Williams info ready to go if this is the correct route.
I will size the screen first on the sanded wall, then start the screen.

In the flat panel world I love DLP's for their inky blacks and good contrast. So if screen color makes a difference those are my preferences.

So what would be best for me?

**mechman** · **09-16-07, 09:53 PM**

Matt,

Before painting, what color are the walls now? The suggested route from me would be to figure out your screen size (if you have light colored walls) and then put up two coats of Kilz2 primer. Try that out for a week or so and report back what you think. If you need something that'll absorb up some of the ambient light, then we can start looking at grays.

mech

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-16-07, 09:54 PM**

Wow....now that's inexpensive

The walls are an off-white(soft white...maybe 8-9.5K in color temp.)

**wbassett** · **09-16-07, 10:16 PM**

You definitely can handle any of the screen options as dark as an N8 with no problem. That shade will also help out tremendously with ambient light during the day.

I would still put up a unity gain white screen first and calibrate for a baseline.

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-16-07, 10:31 PM**

You lost me wbassett. By the way although I can't understand some of them, your DIY screen color write-ups are just fantastic!
Now....
'Unity gain white screen'?
'Calibrate for a baseline'? - does this just mean run an AVIA disc?

**cynical2** · **09-16-07, 10:59 PM**

Quote:

E-A-G-L-E-S wrote:

You lost me wbassett. By the way although I can't understand some of them, your DIY screen color write-ups are just fantastic!
Now....
'Unity gain white screen'?
'Calibrate for a baseline'? - does this just mean run an AVIA disc?

It just means to do what mech said...use Kilz2 for a couple of weeks and see what you think. And, yes, calibrate your projector using a THX movie, DVE, etc...

**mechman** · **09-16-07, 11:00 PM**

Unity gain white = Kilz2 primer

Also N8 would be SW Gray Screen, N9 would be SW Soothing White.

mech

**wbassett** · **09-16-07, 11:12 PM**

Quote:

E-A-G-L-E-S wrote:

You lost me wbassett. By the way although I can't understand some of them, your DIY screen color write-ups are just fantastic!
Now....
'Unity gain white screen'?
'Calibrate for a baseline'? - does this just mean run an AVIA disc?

Sorry about that.

A unity gain screen is a screen with a 1.0 gain and even dispersion of the projected image across the entire surface of the screen. The projector manufacturers do the testing, QA and initial calibration on a plain white unity gain (1.0) screen. I haven't talked to all of the projector manufacturers, but I did talk to Sharp, Mitsubishi, and Panasonic and they all use a plain jane unity gain white reference screen.

Kilz2 makes for a very nice unity gain white screen to do your initial setup and calibration on and it's very easy and inexpensive to put up. Just roll it on the wall that the screen is going to be on and the run your projector through a calibration. A lot of people use Avia or DVE, but the THX calibrator that comes on all THX certified DVDs works expectionally well too. In fact some said they used the THX calibrator first and later when they got DVE the settings were just about perfect just using the THX setup.

Okay, sounds like extra work so why should you do this? First it let's you get familiar with your projector and what the different settings and adjustments do on a screen surface you know will provide an image as close to what the manufacturer intended the projector to look like. That's your baseline. If you go straight for a gray, you'll never really know if you improved anything because you have no common reference point. This will also allow you to find out exactly what the projector can and cannot do. Plus you can play around with different screen sizes to find the size that best suits your setting.

From there, if you don't like the black levels, you may be a candidate for a gray screen, or if you plan on watching the projector during the day like you mentioned, that also leads towards a gray screen. Now though you know what to expect image wise as far as the colors, shadow/contrast detail and things like that. Keep in mind that as you go darker in the shade of gray, whites start taking a hit and colors aren't as vibrant, but blacks look incredible. Going lighter is the reverse, black take a hit and the image washes out more with lights on, but whites and colors really shine.

Your projector can definitely handle a gray that is in the Munsell N8 shade and still provide exceptional whites. To give you an idea of how dark this shade is, it is roughly the same shade of gray as a Grayhawk. Here is what it looks like...

... and here is the range of Munsell grays:

Like I mentioned, your projector can definitely handle it, but you may prefer it just a little lighter, like an N8.5 shade, which of course is half way between N8 and N9. By doing a baseline first you'll know exactly how much or an improvement, or perhaps negative impact different gray shades will have on the image.

There are lots of options both DIY and commercial that fall in the range that will work for you.

Here is an idea of what whites look like on this shade with a projector with similar Lumen output as yours (1700 lumens).

And here is an idea with ambient lighting, a lot of ambient lighting...

If that's what you're shooting for, look around at the various options here in the forum and I am sure you'll find something you like, are interested in, and also fits your needs whether that's a commercial screen of one of the many very good DIY options available.

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-16-07, 11:35 PM**

Makes sense. Thanks so much guys! Kilz to go up tomorrow and intial fire up and calibration.

I've seen all the screen shots in your thread and I agree that the whites pop more than enough(seemingly) on a gray screen.

**wbassett** · **09-16-07, 11:36 PM**

BTW Matt, I grew up in a little town called Jersey Shore, just west of Williamsport, PA so greetings from a fellow Keystone state native!

Quote:

E-A-G-L-E-S wrote:

I've seen all the screen shots in your thread and I agree that the whites pop more than enough(seemingly) on a gray screen.

Okay, didn't mean to repost anything you already saw. Just keep in mind it's not just the screen but everything to take into consideration. That screen works very well for me but could be totally unuseable for someone else that doesn't have enough Lumen output, like I said though, you're fine in that department.

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-16-07, 11:58 PM**

Gotch-ya. I'll post tomorrow on initial thoughts. Thanks for all the help!

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-21-07, 02:35 PM**

O.k., finally got my HC1500 today and set it up. Pretty nice! Pleasantly surprised at the handling of my ambient light.

Now to my one and only concern. The picture seems to be washed out along with the color not as 'jump' out at you as I'm looking for?

**mechman** · **09-21-07, 03:18 PM**

Matt,

Have you attempted a self calibration with the Avia or DVE disks? Or maybe the THX calibration? What are you projecting onto? The Kilz2?

mech

**wbassett** · **09-21-07, 03:20 PM**

Matt, are you shooting on the plain wall or did you put up some Kilz2 for reference screen?

Next would be to spend some time getting used to your projector and all the settings. If you haven't done a calibration yet, do that even if it's just using the THX optimizer.

As cynical2 can tell you, even after you calibrate, there may be other settings that will further improve the image, but the main thing is to get your baseline down before chosing another option. Otherwise you won't have any reference point to know if you actually improved things or not.

If you are shooting onto Kilz2 right now and you're surprised with the ambient performance, even a light gray will make a dramatic difference and help with both black levels and that washed out look. Don't expect it to look like it does when the lights are out though, but you can get it to look better during the day or when all lights are on.

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-21-07, 03:32 PM**

Yup Kilz2(2 coats).
I am awaiting my online ordered avia disc, but I set it up using reccomended settings from someone who owns this projector and ran the avia on it.

**wbassett** · **09-21-07, 04:15 PM**

Quote:

E-A-G-L-E-S wrote:

Yup Kilz2(2 coats).
I am awaiting my online ordered avia disc, but I set it up using reccomended settings from someone who owns this projector and ran the avia on it.

Won't hurt to check the THX optimizer out too. Like IROC racing, they all are supposed to be 'equal' but usually aren't. His settings might be dead on, but you also may be able to pull it in some more.

If you do try the THX Optimizer, no worries since you already have settings written down and you can always go back to those. Also shoot Smokey a note, he may have some tips for you too.

Right now I say settle in with it for a bit on the white reference and get the image the best that you can get it and that's your baseline.

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-21-07, 05:04 PM**

Sounds like a good plan, will do. Thanks again.

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-22-07, 11:17 AM**

O.k., some things that I'm alreadya little concerned about.
1. Menu lettering is awefully not sharp, but sharpness control does 'nothing' for this.
2. Whites can look gray.
3. Colors are not quite rich enough.

Are these inexpensive projector issues or calibration issues? Or are they DIY screen issues?
I ran a THX optimizer this morning.

**mechman** · **09-22-07, 11:47 AM**

Quote:

E-A-G-L-E-S wrote:

O.k., some things that I'm alreadya little concerned about.
1. Menu lettering is awefully not sharp, but sharpness control does 'nothing' for this.
2. Whites can look gray.
3. Colors are not quite rich enough.

Are these inexpensive projector issues or calibration issues? Or are they DIY screen issues?
I ran a THX optimizer this morning.

Sharpness comes from the projector.

Whites will look gray on any gray screen, but only noticeable when compared to a white screen. Does the sweater look white? Or gray? This is a gray screen.

As for the colors, this will more than likely be a projector calibration issue as well. You may need to adjust the gamma settings and/or the saturation. This you will do with the Avia DVD you ordered. Properly calibrated you can get colors such as these:

If, after adjusting these settings using the Avia DVD, you can not reach colors rich enough to your satisfaction you may need to have a professionally certified ISF calibrator take care of it for you. But since you have an offspring of my pj I'm certain you can do it with the just the Avia DVD.

mech

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **09-22-07, 11:55 AM**

"Sharpness comes from the projector" -- Well, this ones' controls do little to change/help this.

The sweater looks brilliantly white....**I'm only on a kilz2 screen currently though and my whites aren't that white.(does your 1000 have the 'brilliant color'? If so, where do you keep yours and does the higher it is burn the lamp harder like the 'Standard' vs 'Low' lamp modes do?)

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