Screen Shot comparison input

**mechman** · **10-10-07, 12:05 PM**

As I'm embarking on what can probably be called my most painstaking screen shootout. I'm wondering if there's any input as to what you'd like to see? Or if everything I've done in the past will be good enough - scene/show-wise.

As some of you may or not be aware, there was recently a "shootout" posted elsewhere. It was of two screens (one of which will be included in my upcoming shootout) which are by and large identical. I believe one substitutes a Delta paint for a faux finish paint.

I'm looking for input from you. The planned shootout will include the two mixes vs Da-Lite's Silver Matte and then vs. Da-Lite's High Power. The second shootout won't necessarily be a shootout but more of an in depth look at some neutral grays. I have 2 N8 panels and 2 N9's. It will more than likely be just the typical High ambient/ Medium ambient/No ambient shoot.

I'm looking for any input/feedback as to what we can do to keep improving the quality of the comparisons and show any performance improvements or weaknesses. Let me know what you want to see! Whites? Bright scenes? Lots of color shots? Blacks? etc. Let me know.

mech

The list of panels:

SilverFire
S-I-L-V-E-R on Kilz
S-I-L-V-E-R on Silver Screen
TV Winter Mountain
TV Winter Mist
SW Gray Screen
SW Soothing White

Some comparison screens:

Designer White
Da-Lite Silver Matte
Da-Lite High Power
EF's?

The Screenies will come from these:

LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring - DVD
Bugs! A Rainforest Adventure - DirecTV HD
Cars - DVD
The Ant Bully - DVD
(also something with bright scenes in it - either Happy Feet and/or HD Hockey and/or Fargo)
Solid color shots

**GbrNole** · **10-10-07, 12:28 PM**

it's always kinda nice to use similar pictures to other reviews when possible simply because it just provides another reference point though one shouldn't put too much stock in that.
art over at projectorreviews.com does a pretty good job of being consistent in all of his most recent reviews (within the last 18 months) and tries each of the PJ's he looks at on 3 or 4 different screens with a firehawk being his reference screen. he also provides a brief recommendation as to which screen color he believes will be most appropriate for a given PJ.

i'm probably stating the obvious but i'm going to guess that all the screen shots will be done with your HC3000 projecting the image and if this is the case here is art's review of your PJ and the array of screenies he provided for reference http://www.projectorreviews.com/mits...agequality.php (man i was so close to buying an HC3000!

)

since you will be trying varying shades or gray between N8 and N9 plus hopefully being able to get a good look at bill's creation it will be interesting to see how your results compare to what art found http://www.projectorreviews.com/mits...nce.php#screen

i just like that fact that most every screen shot i've seen posted here thus far has always been of something with a little challenge to it rather than the typical "look how good monster's inc." or "finding nemo" looks on my pj.

**GbrNole** · **10-10-07, 12:47 PM**

ps. i painted up some stock cards with lowes creations of:

1) laura ashley winter wind 219 218 218
2) dunn edwards porpoise 211 211 211

and i'm contemplating having lowes mix up a quart of ColorTrend Ambiance White Lilac 228 228 228 since it's as close as you can get to N9 without actually having an Xrite determined color match.

one way or another i'll be sending 2 or 3 paint chips up to you for analysis in the next couple of days.

pps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless from the summary, i resist, i resist!!!

**mechman** · **10-10-07, 01:35 PM**

Gbr,

Unfortunately I do not have a HD-DVD player. I know you've seen the Da-Lite review, have you seen the others? How were the shots in those? Let me know and thanks for the input!

mech

**GbrNole** · **10-10-07, 01:53 PM**

i love the nature and the LOTR screenies except with LOTR i prefer the scenes later in the movie(s) where there is less of a green overcast and flesh tones get a little more natural.

for animated movies i love two of the 4 you used - Cars and Ant Bully. the reason why i like those 2 is that cars uses very bold, natural colors and ant bully just has incredible detail, especially in the blu-ray version.

finding nemo and monsters inc. have their place but they aren't very demanding of good video quality to make them look good, i find the same can be said for ice age and happy feet (or similar).

for all the hard work you an bill are doing i almost feel like we all need to pitch in and get you some funds toward an HD-DVD player now! i didn't think there would be that much of a difference since i've been watching dvd's on a very tweaked out HTPC for 3 years now but my PS3 kicks it's butt in upscaled DVD playback and blu-ray doesn't slap you upside the head all of the time but when you've watched a string of blu-ray movies and then drop back to an upscaled dvd, you realize the difference pretty quickly.

your directv mpeg4 channels are presenting plenty of very nice images now though - no more HD lite for you!

**backwoods** · **10-10-07, 03:51 PM**

I cant wait to see the results of your comparisons

. its been a long time in coming

**mechman** · **10-10-07, 04:00 PM**

Quote:

GbrNole wrote:

i love the nature and the LOTR screenies except with LOTR i prefer the scenes later in the movie(s) where there is less of a green overcast and flesh tones get a little more natural.

for animated movies i love two of the 4 you used - Cars and Ant Bully. the reason why i like those 2 is that cars uses very bold, natural colors and ant bully just has incredible detail, especially in the blu-ray version.

finding nemo and monsters inc. have their place but they aren't very demanding of good video quality to make them look good, i find the same can be said for ice age and happy feet (or similar).

for all the hard work you an bill are doing i almost feel like we all need to pitch in and get you some funds toward an HD-DVD player now! i didn't think there would be that much of a difference since i've been watching dvd's on a very tweaked out HTPC for 3 years now but my PS3 kicks it's butt in upscaled DVD playback and blu-ray doesn't slap you upside the head all of the time but when you've watched a string of blu-ray movies and then drop back to an upscaled dvd, you realize the difference pretty quickly.

your directv mpeg4 channels are presenting plenty of very nice images now though - no more HD lite for you!

I'll accept any free HD-DVD players!!

I think I'll drop some of the animated ones then because it really is a lot of work shooting that many scenes. I'll stick to LOTR, Bugs!, Cars, and Ant Bully. Then of course I have to find a couple bright white scenes to check for hot spotting. It will more than likely be hockey and/or Happy Feet. Thanks for the $.02!

mech

**mechman** · **10-10-07, 04:36 PM**

So here are all the panels I have:

SilverFire
S-I-L-V-E-R on Kilz
S-I-L-V-E-R on Silver Screen
TV Winter Mountain
TV Winter Mist
SW Gray Screen
SW Soothing White

For comparisons I have a 3X6' DW and the Da-Lite Samples.

The Silver on Silver Screen is one that I'm gonna call a wash. I rolled the SS on and it really is amazing the amount of texture rolling adds when compared to spraying. I think I'm going to sand that one down and re paint it with SS for comparison purposes. I also have EF 04 06 and 08. I believe it's an old formula though as it seems a bit green.

I'm going to start this later tonight I think, cause I have the SF and Silver hanging right now. BTW, for anyone curious, I straightened the panels by attaching a 1X3 on the top and bottom. Two screws are visible on each panel but not enough to distract from the performance.

mech

**cynical2** · **10-10-07, 05:12 PM**

I think your reviews have been fabulous. I'm personally a fan of patterns rather than movie captures, when it comes down to seeing the true effects of the screen. White/black patterns and color bars of the same color bar spanning across the samples. That makes it very easy to see the effect on whites/blacks and colors, easily identify any color push, etc.

The movie screen captures can then be used to confirm what I think I've learned from the shots with patterns.

I'm sure I'll be happy and will be most appreciative of whatever you come up with...but those are my preferences, since you asked.

Oh, and seeing similar shades done in a comparison is very useful. I would want to see a neutral grey of similar shade compared to any screen you review. Seeing DW compared to the higher gain screens (that are trying to preserve good whites/brights) them is also helpful to give a comparison to a solution that almost any reasonable person agrees is a great laminate screen.

**mechman** · **10-10-07, 05:14 PM**

Quote:

cynical2 wrote:

I think your reviews have been fabulous. I'm personally a fan of patterns rather than movie captures, when it comes down to seeing the true effects of the screen. White/black patterns and color bars of the same color bar spanning across the samples. That makes it very easy to see the effect on whites/blacks and colors, easily identify any color push, etc.

The movie screen captures can then be used to confirm what I think I've learned from the shots with patterns.

I'm sure I'll be happy and will be most appreciative of whatever you come up with...but those are my preferences, since you asked.

Oh, and seeing similar shades done in a comparison is very useful. I would want to see a neutral grey of similar shade compared to any screen you review. Seeing DW compared to the higher gain screens (that are trying to preserve good whites/brights) them is also helpful to give a comparison to a solution that almost any reasonable person agrees is a great laminate screen.

Noted and added! Thanks Jim!

I should add that the solid color shots are generally a good indicator for hot spots as well. That's one of the ways which helped me realize this with my FG.

mech

**GbrNole** · **10-10-07, 05:22 PM**

you want something bright white and very demanding, fargo!

strange but great movie and all that snow is a beast on lousy tv's etc.

**mechman** · **10-10-07, 05:35 PM**

Quote:

GbrNole wrote:

you want something bright white and very demanding, fargo!

strange but great movie and all that snow is a beast on lousy tv's etc.

I'm pretty sure I have that... If I do I'll put it in.

mech

**cynical2** · **10-10-07, 06:23 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

Noted and added! Thanks Jim!

I should add that the solid color shots are generally a good indicator for hot spots as well. That's one of the ways which helped me realize this with my FG.

mech

Awesome...now that's service! Ask and ye shall receive! Thanks!

Me--->

<---mech, thinking...

**GbrNole** · **10-10-07, 06:29 PM**

this one is a fun image with a lot of hues

and this one is brutal

**mechman** · **10-10-07, 08:00 PM**

Gbr,

I'm hoping I have that movie at home. If I don't I may have to go and buy it! Those two scenes would be perfect!

As I'm sure you probably are aware, hot spots would appear in the center of the screen when taking shots straight back. Therefore the center of the screen would be a bad place for a head or something like that.

mech

**mechman** · **10-10-07, 11:13 PM**

No Fargo in the library...

. I may have to go pick it up tomorrow or Friday.

mech

**titch--** · **10-10-07, 11:50 PM**

I just want to see how S-I-L-V-E-R on Kilz compares to the rest of em.

Great shoot out though.

**mechman** · **10-13-07, 10:37 AM**

An update. All the preliminary work has been done. I've taken some shots already - nothing worthwhile yet. Plus I've taken magnified shots! We'll have 10x, 60x, and 200x shots of some professional screens for reference and of the SF and S-I-L-V-E-R. After some discussions with folks here at the Shack, I've decided to make the initial shootout a two part shootout. The first part will mainly be photos with a bit of data as well. The second part, which will follow a couple weeks afterwards will be mainly data. There will be L*ab, xyY, RGB and foot lambert measurements taken from different angles of each screen.

And while I'm doing the data part I'll start up the neutral gray shots and comparisons. All of this will culminate with comparisons of different combinations. It should be a very enlightening month or so. In between all of this I have a couple of hunting trips planned so that's why there will be a delay between part one and two. And there may be another between the neutrals and the all-in-one comparison type stuff.

Some of you may be asking, "Why have you waited so long in the first place?" Well I ordered a spectrophotometer. An i1pro to be exact, to help Bill and I get the data we need to back up our words. When I initially tested the i1 out there appeared to be a bit of a discrepancy with some of the numbers. Therefore I contacted X-Rite and sent it back for either a re-calibration or a replacement. It's been over three weeks now and I finally called X-Rite to find out what was taking so long. Turned out I forgot to include the base plate.

Despite my faux pas they replied that it shouldn't have taken them this long to get back to me anyways and are sending me a loaner to use until mine either gets fixed/recalibrated or replaced. Long story short, X-Rite's customer service is pretty good!

So that's where we're at! Hopefully by early next week part one will be finished and posted. Expect part two before November - hopefully!

mech

PS And yes! We are still plugging away at the pigment free gray while all of this is going on! Not to mention working at our real jobs!

**mechman** · **10-16-07, 01:57 PM**

Over 200 screen shots complete. One with S-I-L-V-E-R vs Wilsonart Designer White for the title of "No lights on - Best Screen" and the other is Silver Fire vs. Da-Lite's Silver Matte, High Contrast Cinema Vision and Wilsonart Fashion Grey. I'm planning on starting the threads shortly and as always they will be closed until I'm done posting everything.

mech

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