Need help picking screen!

**Exaneo** · **11-07-07, 05:35 AM**

I've been reading and reading and reading for hours and my head is spinning trying to figure out what i need to do. I'll try to make this as easy as possible:

Projector: Panasonic AX100u

I'm looking for a screen that will perform well in ambient light, (not excessive) and that doesn't have a whole lot of dropoff that the high gain screens exhibit. (So i can go in my kitchen and still see a decent image at 45 degrees)

My projector is very bright as HT projectors go - 2000 lumens and dynamic iris.

I read the fashion grey is good, but not the best for ambient light... what IS the best in ambient light? And what are the drawbacks??

HELP!

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **11-07-07, 09:21 AM**

Grey screens are definitely your best option. With that bright of a PJ and you said minimal light, I would say something like TV Winter Mountain or Winter Mist.

Hopefully one of the three DIY screen guys will chime in.

**Exaneo** · **11-07-07, 09:51 AM**

Thanks for the advice - glad to hear it's grey i need, because i just went to lowes and ordered some Fashion Grey laminate...

I know it's idiotic to buy fashion grey laminate and pay 70 bucks, then paint it.. but this way i can at least give this surface a shot, and if i'm unhappy -which i doubt- i can always prime and paint, right?

I really like the idea of using laminate over other materials because FIRST - i can actually get it, and it isn't SO niche it's impossible to find,
and mostly and secondly it's really thin, so it fits with the type of low-profile screen i want to make, while not being excessively heavy.

I don't want to paint my wall, and i don't want a huge sheet of MDF hanging on the wall either.

Any thoughts?

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **11-07-07, 09:57 AM**

Quote:

Exaneo wrote:

Thanks for the advice - glad to hear it's grey i need, because i just went to lowes and ordered some Fashion Grey laminate...

I know it's idiotic to buy fashion grey laminate and pay 70 bucks, then paint it.. but this way i can at least give this surface a shot, and if i'm unhappy -which i doubt- i can always prime and paint, right?

I really like the idea of using laminate over other materials because FIRST - i can actually get it, and it isn't SO niche it's impossible to find,
and mostly and secondly it's really thin, so it fits with the type of low-profile screen i want to make, while not being excessively heavy.

I don't want to paint my wall, and i don't want a huge sheet of MDF hanging on the wall either.

Any thoughts?

1. NP
2. Yup
3. If you don't want to paint wall then you made a great choice. Now throw it up temporarily to see if it suits your needs. Then if not, try a different mix and if yes, it would then be time to mount and border

**Exaneo** · **11-07-07, 10:06 AM**

Great, thanks.

How is the off-axis viewing with this stuff? I saw a gain chart somewhere around here and it looked like there was a pretty dramatic falloff even at 50 degrees, but i'm not sure if i was reading that right.

If i primed and painted it with a True Value N8 or something, would that give me better off axis viewing or not?

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **11-07-07, 10:16 AM**

Oooh, now we are definitely over my head. Hopefully one of the big three guys will chime in for you.
All I know is with my Marantz on a DIY Winter Mist screen directly on wall I can continue watching while I go #1 and that is from almost behind the screen and it still looks GREAT. Don't know what about my set-up that allows this though, so hopefully more help coming.

**mechman** · **11-07-07, 10:16 AM**

There are no viewing cone issues with laminates.

mech

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **11-07-07, 10:18 AM**

There's one of them

If I was you I'd ask away now Exaneo.

Hey Mech. Why don't I have any viewing angle problems?

**mechman** · **11-07-07, 10:43 AM**

And there are no viewing angle problems with paint. To a degree anyways.

Once the paint becomes a 'mix' and mica enters the equation under the false assumption of added gain, then you can have viewing angle issues as well as color shifting. We're doing a lot of testing of current DIY screen applications (we'll be posting our conclusions eventually) and the best bang for your buck so far are Designer White Laminate and the neutral grays identified here at the Shack. Notice I did not include my Fashion Grey screen. While I have no issues whatsoever with it, the spectro readings of a Fashion Grey screen with Behr matte poly applied push outside of where we'd like to see it. I have not tested Fashion Grey sans poly as I can't seem to find a sample at any of my Home Depots. Anyone have some sitting around that they can send me?

If you were to go with a gray laminate I'd recommend Platinum at this time. It falls within the neutral parameters we've set for ourselves here at the Shack.

mech

**Exaneo** · **11-07-07, 10:52 AM**

Well...

Unfortunately i've already ordered the Fashion Grey... but thats what you use right? I went with this particularly because i saw your screenshots and was under the assumption thats what you were using. They looked pretty good.

Glad to hear there are no cone issues.. does applying the Behr poly make a significant difference - or i guess the question would be, do you think it would help with my 2000 lumen ax100u? Don't know if the issue was with higher lumen or lower lumen, or if it matters at all.. i just know that some people had issues where others didn't.

Well at least it seems you're happy with your fashion grey... that gives me hope knowing i probably won't be nearly as critical as you, being an entry level DIY screener.

At least i'm starting at what seems like a good place.

**Exaneo** · **11-07-07, 10:54 AM**

Also, i didn't quite understand what you mean by the "mica" and the "false gain" thing. I take it you still recommend the True Value N8 and such?

How do you feel about the screen goo offerings and the rest of those guys?

**mechman** · **11-07-07, 11:42 AM**

Dale,

Sorry for the confusion! Yes the N8's are fine. The problems start when people start to add what I like to call 'popsicle stick' paints in order to add 'pop' to a screen. I've yet to see any homemade mix achieve this. We've recently tested pearlizing medium mixed with poly and found what I'd call a pretty major color shift.

So cut and dried, if you go with an N8 from True Value or Sherwin Williams you'll be fine.

The Fashion Grey will be fine as well. I use it and it works well for me.

But the addition of the Behr Clear Matte Poly caused it to stray from what we call neutral. If you don't have to put poly on it, you'll be fine. If you have to put poly on be aware that it strays up near the green territory.

And welcome to the Shack!

mech

**mechman** · **11-07-07, 11:45 AM**

Dale,

Check back when you get the FG and if it hot spots. The only reason to add poly was for hot spots. Also, if you have to cut it to size I'd like a small sample of it if you could send it to me. I have no non-poly'd FG to get readings from.

mech

**Exaneo** · **11-07-07, 05:57 PM**

Sure thing... i'll definitely check back with you when it arrives... Lowes said it could be anywhere from a couple days to November 19th! I definitely hope it gets here before then because i'm trying to have a Sunday night football event here on the 18th.

I do have to cut a substantial piece off, as i'm going to have only about a 70" screen to start. I don't have a huge living room, and there's always the wife factor. I'll definitely up the size when i have a dedicated room or the like.

How big a size would you like?

Thanks

**mechman** · **11-07-07, 07:29 PM**

All I need is a 1"X1" square. It'll fit in an envelope and only cost a stamp!

Let me know when you get it and I'll pm you my address.

mech

**Exaneo** · **11-07-07, 07:58 PM**

Sure thing... i'll let ya know

**wbassett** · **11-07-07, 09:10 PM**

Quote:

Exaneo wrote:

Well...

Unfortunately i've already ordered the Fashion Grey... but thats what you use right? I went with this particularly because i saw your screenshots and was under the assumption thats what you were using. They looked pretty good.

Glad to hear there are no cone issues.. does applying the Behr poly make a significant difference - or i guess the question would be, do you think it would help with my 2000 lumen ax100u? Don't know if the issue was with higher lumen or lower lumen, or if it matters at all.. i just know that some people had issues where others didn't.

Well at least it seems you're happy with your fashion grey... that gives me hope knowing i probably won't be nearly as critical as you, being an entry level DIY screener.

At least i'm starting at what seems like a good place.

Honestly, you should be fine with Fashion Grey. It's not that it's 'bad', it really does perform very good, but if there is a better balanced option out there that's what we are going to test and ultimately recommend. Acceptable is perfectly fine, but I do think DIY developers strive for optimal or 'best' even though I hear a lot of 'close enough' comments. We really can do better than that, which is one thing I do strive for. The other is KISS, and keeping things easy for people to do.

One thing you will have to do is poly coat it to make it more diffusive and knock down the specularity or you'll have some hot spotting with a projector that bright. Also before making any final conclusions, test all your settings. You'll most likely find one that will pop in and look the best.

You'll even run into some of the very same issues with commercial screens, the biggest difference is the cost factor though.

Try to take a picture diary of your screen process, that's the most benificial to everyone.

People always love to see a project unfold and see the steps from start to finish.

**wbassett** · **11-07-07, 09:30 PM**

Quote:

Exaneo wrote:

Great, thanks.

How is the off-axis viewing with this stuff? I saw a gain chart somewhere around here and it looked like there was a pretty dramatic falloff even at 50 degrees, but i'm not sure if i was reading that right.

If i primed and painted it with a True Value N8 or something, would that give me better off axis viewing or not?

One thing to keep in mind, 50 degrees is just half the viewing cone, so if you see a half gain drop off at 50 degrees, that's a 100 degree viewing cone which is a large viewing angle.

As far as painting a sheet of FG... that is such a waste, like someone getting Do-Able and painting it! If it comes down to that maybe check and see if someone in your area wants to take it off your hands and we can get you going with a less expensive substrate or painting option. But I do think you'll be happy with FG. Worse case, and this would apply to any screen, if you feel the image is 'too bright' then check into an ND filter.

As far as ambient performance, here is an N8 with lots of sunlight, not just a room lamp...

And with the lumen output of the Panny Ax100u you don't have to worry about whites, the shots above and the ones below with lights out are with a projector rated at 1700 max lumens.

And a couple of off axis shots to show this N8 screen has a very wide viewing cone...

**cynical2** · **11-07-07, 10:13 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

All I need is a 1"X1" square. It'll fit in an envelope and only cost a stamp!

Let me know when you get it and I'll pm you my address.

mech

Mech, I'll send you a square of FG...I've got samples here. Wish I knew before I sent you that last package.

Need any other WA laminates?

**mechman** · **11-07-07, 10:32 PM**

What else do you have?

I didn't realize you had them either I guess!

I have DW and Platinum but I really need a FG that doesn't have poly on it. And maybe a Dove Grey too! Whatever you got send it along!

mech

**Exaneo** · **11-07-07, 10:58 PM**

Good stuff - thanks a lot guys, i've really never been a part of a forum so helpful. I guess i'll set up camp!

I guess i'll plan to polycoat then, being that my projector is so bright, and the projector will only be about 11' from the screen, and the screen will be about 70".

I live in a fairly small apartment, and i think anything above that might be overkill. I'd be happy to make a photojournal of my progress - i just ran some cable tonight in preparation for the Friday arrival of my Panny.

Is their a WIP subforum or something? Or should i just do it here?

bassett - youre daytime shots are pretty impressive, i'm a bit relieved. I do think the AX100u was a good choice for my situation being that it has the dynamic Iris control and can spit out 2k lumens when need be. It's been an exciting journey thus far, and once i know where to put my WIP thread, i'll keep you guys updated.

**wbassett** · **11-07-07, 11:07 PM**

Quote:

Exaneo wrote:

I guess i'll plan to polycoat then, being that my projector is so bright, and the projector will only be about 11' from the screen, and the screen will be about 70".

That's a small screen compared to most people's and with your projector it will be extremely bright, I say go with an N8 shade (like Fashion Grey) and use an ND filter to knock down the initial brightness that the AX100u has. Then when the bulb starts to age remove the filter and you still get the same image brightness throughout the life of the bulb.

I honestly think you will be able to get a spectacular image this way and also increase your viewing time with one bulb.

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