Black Widow PFG - the Discussion

**mechman** · **02-29-08, 03:16 PM**

cd,

LW/HE558 6:1 was too dark for you? That's a pretty light mix and I'm not so certain I can get much lighter than that!

213 215 214

That's approaching Winter Mist! Are you sure it's a 6:1?

Have you ever thought of using Designer White? I gotta go read your thread again...

mech

**cdcstl** · **02-29-08, 03:21 PM**

The LW 6:1 is lighter than WM 5:1 that I first tried. I'm not sure it is neutral and just want to see what you can develop. I have been toying with the idea of getting a brighter projector.

**wbassett** · **03-06-08, 10:18 PM**

I bought a second sprayer. The weather is starting to break and it's getting to be spraying weather!

Why two? Well several already have pro HVLP spray rigs, I have the Wagner Control Sprayer, and now the Wide Shot Lock-n-Go. That should cover all spraying bases. Plus the wide shot sprays latex without thinning it and that should put out a thicker coating, which from the initial reports I am thinking this isn't a duster type spray method, but nice heavy coatings to get a nice even dispersion of the aluminum down and also a bit thicker than what I think the HVLP units are doing.

We shall see though, but it will be a good test none the less.

**mechman** · **03-06-08, 10:22 PM**

I'm gettin' ready to join you!

mech

**jimwhite** · **03-07-08, 01:10 PM**

I'll be VERY interested in the Wagner CS results.....

**bidzer** · **03-07-08, 01:36 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

I'm gettin' ready to join you!

mech

Mech that is a SERIOUS bottle of AAA. Is that legal?

**mechman** · **03-07-08, 06:30 PM**

Quote:

bidzer wrote:

Mech that is a SERIOUS bottle of AAA. Is that legal?

I needed more!!!!

mech

**wbassett** · **03-08-08, 04:40 PM**

Quote:

jimwhite wrote:

I'll be VERY interested in the Wagner CS results.....

Actually Jim so am I! Spraying weather is coming soon.

Right now the only HVLP test that was done wasn't very sucessful, that's why I picked up the WideShot. First let me say I am not a huge Wagner fan or anything like that. I also picked up one of my dad's pro auto guns last time I was home, but I figured that gun is even different than the pro HVLP units harp and mech have, so the likelyhood of anyone using something like that would be slim. Plus like I said mech and harp have an HVLP gun, some have the Control Spray, but few have the Wide Shot.

The Control Spray really isn't made for latex, but has been shown to work if the paint is thinned. The Wide Shot will spray latex as is, so I'm curious about it putting down a thicker coating too.

**cynical2** · **03-08-08, 06:10 PM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

Spraying weather is coming soon.

Man, I hope you're right...cause right now I'm looking out at 16" of weather in my backyard.

**Harpmaker** · **03-08-08, 06:35 PM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

Actually Jim so am I! Spraying weather is coming soon.

Right now the only HVLP test that was done wasn't very sucessful, that's why I picked up the WideShot. First let me say I am not a huge Wagner fan or anything like that. I also picked up one of my dad's pro auto guns last time I was home, but I figured that gun is even different than the pro HVLP units harp and mech have, so the likelyhood of anyone using something like that would be slim. Plus like I said mech and harp have an HVLP gun, some have the Control Spray, but few have the Wide Shot.

The Control Spray really isn't made for latex, but has been shown to work if the paint is thinned. The Wide Shot will spray latex as is, so I'm curious about it putting down a thicker coating too.

I assume you're referring to my spraying efforts Bill.

If so, I should mention that the AAA BW mix sprays fine! The HE558 mixes spray okay too, but there is that nagging tendency to smudge after they are dry. I guess there is also the lingering question of whether sprayed BW gives the same final look as rolled BW.

I'm looking forward to not being the only person spraying the BW mixes!

I may just dust off my Critter spray gun and give it a shot with BW. The Critter is not an HVLP; in fact, it can even spray unthinned contact cement! It doesn't have as fine a spray as other guns and it only sprays in a round pattern, but it could be interesting to shoot some unthinned BW through it and see what happens.

The Critter is a very simple gun and uses strictly venturi action to spray, and the cool thing is it uses 16oz mason jars as the paint container! The down-side is that it does need an air compressor, but not a big one!

Amazon.com: Critter Spray Products 22032 118SG...

**bidzer** · **03-08-08, 07:14 PM**

Quote:

cynical2 wrote:

Man, I hope you're right...cause right now I'm looking out at 16" of weather in my backyard.

I'm going stir crazy in the house!!! 2 inches of rain today wiped all of our snow out!!!!

**paints** · **03-10-08, 10:05 PM**

Allrighty...count me into the BW club.

I've ran quite the gambit on screen colors since last thursday when my Panny AX200 arrived. So I'll start from the beginning.

Day 1. Panny Arrives! Setup on coffee table and project onto a chocolate milk wall. Being a newbie....was floored at how beautiful the HD-DVD Batman Begins looked on first time used Toshiba A2 (bought it 5 months ago and left it in box). Although it looked great. I could tell bright colors were getting butchered.

Day 2. Mount Panny. HD-DVR Cable box added to the playground.

Day 3. Two coats of Kilnz put on wall. New world of color opens up. Watched Batman again. Noticed some of those dark scenes in nightime city shots took a couple of hits.

Day 4. Figured Kilnz was decently dry so again watched Batman Begins and played around with color management and actualy wound up happy with the primer screens performance (remember...me Noob).

Day 5. Today! Put on the Black Widow about 4 hours ago. Fired up Panny and turned on ESPN HD. At first I screamed! Then I went up to little HD tv and noticed the broadcast looked bad there as well. Flipped to Universal HD were Enterprise episode was on. MUCH BETTER!!!!

First off I was amazed at the depth the picture has now. The only way to describe it would be if anyone can remember what those old 3D Kelloggs baseball cards looked like. That would be the best way to I can explain the look. I checked back in with ESPN during the halftime studio show and it was back to it's normal HD look. The blue colors in the background looked well.....wet. So I before I start tweaking anything. I had better let the paint dry a good 12-18 hours more before I get crazy. One thing I am a bit worried about is I'm getting a greenish hue or push that I wasn't seeing with the Milk Chocolate or Kilnz screen. I'll play around with it tomorrow when I get home from work and see how it looks. Gotta say...I'm truely impressed.

Thank you BW team for the hard work.

Bdizer. Any clue how to adjust greens on the Panny? I'm just fumbling around on my unit until I get a look thats pleasing to me. Which by the way. Whoever said the Panny isn't sharp...is nuts.

**power4u** · **03-11-08, 12:37 AM**

Quote:

paints wrote:

Allrighty...count me into the BW club..

What formulation did you use? AAA or 558? Which base too?

Any Screenshots?

**mechman** · **03-11-08, 09:13 AM**

I believe we're well over 4 or 5 now!

And can anyone believe that there's a person out there saying that a flat gray screen performs the same?

mech

**jimwhite** · **03-11-08, 09:58 AM**

I'm just waiting for the first report from a Wagner owner

**muzz** · **03-11-08, 04:29 PM**

Welcome to the club paints...
I think you'll find the BW to be a great screen.

I have the AX100(basically the same), and to adjust the "colors", you have to go into the "Advanced" sub menu(scroll down in picture menu), in there are Conrast and brightness settings for Red, Green, and Blue.
There are also gamma settings, which I would leave be.

**power4u** · **03-11-08, 09:35 PM**

I have been convinced, (by Mech, et. al.), that I cannot get a precise neutral gray without all the equipment and such by messing around with an oil base alternative.

I still feel it would be worth the effort, but I just ordered my AAA from this place:

http://www.repaintsupply.com/cat_series_4100.cfm

Dickblick is out of stock....

Needless to say, I am really excited. This screen is going to look awesome! Especially, compared to my yellow wall I am using now.

Thanks to all the testers involved for hashing out this great solution for Home theater screen.

I will have to get out my Olympus E-volt E-500 to get some screenshots, when I am done.

Can someone point me in the direction of a simple lightweight frame I can fabricate? I plan to wrap it in velvet, so it can be made out of just about anything....

My screen will be approx. 106". I am going with 16:9, because I like to watch a little bit of TV. The black bars don't bother me at all.

**sfdoddsy** · **03-11-08, 11:15 PM**

For those in Australia, Dulux gives RGB values for their paints when you use their Colour Atlas:

http://www.dulux.com.au/html/specifi...our_atlas.aspx

I'm currently using their Ashville (PG2.B1) which has RGB values of 200-199-199.

I've ordered the AA from Adelaide with overnight shipping, so it should be here for the weekend.

**cynical2** · **03-11-08, 11:51 PM**

Quote:

sfdoddsy wrote:

For those in Australia, Dulux gives RGB values for their paints when you use their Colour Atlas:

http://www.dulux.com.au/html/specifi...our_atlas.aspx

I'm currently using their Ashville (PG2.B1) which has RGB values of 200-199-199.

I've ordered the AA from Adelaide with overnight shipping, so it should be here for the weekend.

That's GREAT INFO, Steve! Great news that you're going to use the BW mix!

Just to be clear, you are not planning to combine the AAA with Ashville, correct?

**wbassett** · **03-12-08, 12:05 AM**

Quote:

jimwhite wrote:

I'm just waiting for the first report from a Wagner owner

Jim it's getting close! Just a few more degrees warmer and I'll be trying both the Control Spray and the Wide Shot. Like I said, not because I have any great love of Wagners... but they are popular.

Personally, and this is just an opinion right now, I think the Wide Shot may be better for Black Widow since no thinning is required, and when adding the aluminum (AAA, HE is thicker) the AAA actually thins the paint some. Black Jack is like adding 8 ounces of water to a quart of latex paint, I'm not sure if I would want to thin it any more than that.

The Wide Shot has a better build feel to it. There is something about the Control Spray that just reminds me of a toy. Probably because I'm used to my dad's spraying equipment that was all metal and all business.

My guess is both sprayers will work, but there may be some more work with the Control Spray. I can see it requiring several coats with that to get the right dispersion of aluminum. It will be a good test and I think fun to do.

**sfdoddsy** · **03-12-08, 12:35 AM**

No, Asheville is what I currently have on the wall.

Apparently the recommendation for AA is higher red and lower blue as per this post:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...html#post82541

The shade that I could find that most closely matches the recommended base for AA is the Dulux Ellen Half P09.F1H. It has RGB values of 234-212-199. It may be less neutral, but I'm also considering P09.E1H at 229-210-200.

I'll keep looking tonight.

**Harpmaker** · **03-12-08, 03:27 AM**

Quote:

sfdoddsy wrote:

The shade that I could find that most closely matches the recommended base for AA is the Dulux Ellen Half P09.F1H. It has RGB values of 234-212-199. It may be less neutral, but I'm also considering P09.E1H at 229-210-200.

I'll keep looking tonight.

Neutrality is the key to a great screen, the aluminum just sweetens the pot. It's amazing how "off" my HE558 BW mixes look when compared to the extremely neutral BB/AAA 4:1 mix.

Something went strangely wrong with my HE558 mixes, will be looking into that this week.

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