Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

**tweakophyte** · **04-02-08, 10:06 PM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

A good rule of thumb is to try to start with as smooth of a surface as possible.

I have a sample of DoAble and the texture doesn't look that bad to me, so I don't think you'll have a problem. It would be a shame though to paint such a beautiful performing white screen like that!

I hear you, but she's got a great backside, too. Is it a very nice substrate. What else can you find that is thick enough without being too thick and heavy?

Like I said, I have my 8oz of AAA.

**mechman** · **04-04-08, 09:14 AM**

Quote:

tweakophyte wrote:

Like I said, I have my 8oz of AAA.

tweak,

Bear with me as my memory is a bit shot as of late but I'm unsure what you're waiting for? All of the mixes that I've experimented with in the further experimentations thread are good candidates. What's your situation again?

Here's what we have so far with regards to Auto Air Aluminum Black Widow

4:1

186 186 186
0.312 0.329 49.1
75.5 -0.06 -0.08
6503

3:1:1

189 190 190
0.313 0.329 51.4
76.9 -0.19 0.09
6547.6

And Behr 1850 flat enamel has been confirmed to work neutrally. But I need to throw it up on the screen yet. The 3:1 works as well but I need to get that one up as well.

If you want the best, just throw up the 4:1. That's my plan anyways!

**tweakophyte** · **04-04-08, 09:27 AM**

Hi Mech-

I was waiting for the "lighter" BW formula you were working on... about a week ago (I think) you said you were going to post it any day. If I read right, it turned out you were not successful in making a lighter version of BW.

So now I am just trying to decide if I should to an interim step and mount the Doable board I have with the white side out, and use that as a screen for a little before painting BW on that side. My other option is to mount the doable with the masonite side out and go straight to BW.

The concern I have is with the texture on the white side of the doable board. Will that texture ultimately effect the performance of BW? After I figure that out I will frame up the board and start the process.

PS You don't happen to have the full specs of doable, do you?

**mechman** · **04-04-08, 10:18 AM**

Quote:

tweakophyte wrote:

Hi Mech-

I was waiting for the "lighter" BW formula you were working on... about a week ago (I think) you said you were going to post it any day. If I read right, it turned out you were not successful in making a lighter version of BW.

So now I am just trying to decide if I should to an interim step and mount the Doable board I have with the white side out, and use that as a screen for a little before painting BW on that side. My other option is to mount the doable with the masonite side out and go straight to BW.

The concern I have is with the texture on the white side of the doable board. Will that texture ultimately effect the performance of BW? After I figure that out I will frame up the board and start the process.

PS You don't happen to have the full specs of doable, do you?

Yeah the best we can do for now is a 4:1:1. I may get around to tinkering some more in the future. I know I promised Prof. I'd revisit the 2:1:2 ratios as it delivered N8 numbers. To tell you the truth I forgot completely about how well that one looked until about a minute ago! But here's the numbers from teh further investigations thread part two:

2:1:2 BB:AAA:FUW

202 202 202
0.313 0.330 59.2
81.4 -0.14 0.34

And then the next day I reported a

If you take a look at post ten in that thread I think I may have screwed up the readings there and mislabeled the 2:1:2 as a 4:1:1 and vice versa. Looking back, that appears to be where I started thinking we could get a N8. I still have that small batch of the 4:1:1 too.

mech

I'll revisit this one tonight. One thing though, I'm going to save 8 oz of AAA for my screen. I think I have enough to mix this one up.

**jimwhite** · **04-04-08, 11:22 AM**

Quote:

4:1

186 186 186
0.312 0.329 49.1
75.5 -0.06 -0.08
6503

4:1 AAA with which base was this measured?

**mechman** · **04-04-08, 12:34 PM**

Almost everything I've done is Valspar Ultra Premium Flat Enamel. The only base that I've found that does not work so far is Behr 4850 Exterior.

**mechman** · **04-05-08, 02:12 PM**

While I was chatting with Harpmaker last night I did some quick calculations. At 200x our QX3 microscopes display approximately 1/32 of an inch. A 100" 16:9 screen measures 49"X87" which is 1568X2784 32ths of an inch. Multiplying these two numbers gives us 4365312 square 32ths of an inch of screen surface. Now let's say you see 30 aluminum flakes in a 200X image. You multiply the above number by 30 and you'd have a good idea for how much aluminum is visible on your screen. In this case it would be 130,959,360 flakes. Someone double check my math!

And here's a 200X of the 3:1 BW mix:

I think there's a few more than 30 flakes there. And I think a bright pj bulb would probably even show us more!

**mechman** · **04-06-08, 02:22 AM**

Dick Blick is still out of Auto Air Aluminum Fine! And it won't be available until 5/5! :raped:

**Harpmaker** · **04-15-08, 06:39 PM**

Add another happy BW user to the list! 98" screen using BB/AAA 4:1 with the Valspar enamel base.

**mechman** · **04-15-08, 10:18 PM**

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

Add another happy BW user to the list! 98" screen using BB/AAA 4:1 with the Valspar enamel base.

Who?!?! Did I miss something?!?!?! lol!

Seriously though, I lost count a long time ago!

**Harpmaker** · **04-15-08, 11:22 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

Who?!?! Did I miss something?!?!?! lol!

LilGator at AVS. You can't keep a good paint down mech!

I pointed him to using the Valspar enamel instead of regular flat latex. Some are saying the enamel might possibly produce hot-spotting.

From his post:"I painted my 95" last night- local dealer only had 1 4oz of AAA, so I only managed two coats. It looks good to my eyes- biggest upside is the black level improvement, biggest downside would be the visible drywall texture (wasn't noticeable before)- though only a distraction if you are looking for it. It doesn't hot-spot that I can tell, and the silver specks aren't noticeable from viewing distance, and do their job well.

It looks very, very good in daytime viewing situations, I have curtains in the room covering a sliding glass door, so daytime has some ambient light (top of the curtains, or hallway light coming from the rest of the house, though nothing direct. Overall I'm very pleased with the mix, I'll try to get pics up tonight."

**mechman** · **04-16-08, 12:11 PM**

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

LilGator at AVS. You can't keep a good paint down mech!

I pointed him to using the Valspar enamel instead of regular flat latex.

Someone should point these folks to the Shack!

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

Some are saying the enamel might possibly produce hot-spotting.

Well let's face the facts. Avs is the biggest disinformation parade in DIY screens.

The one with the loudest mouth who makes dozens of posts rules the roost.

And it doesn't matter if it's the truth and has performed via standards set forth by the industry over there.

And then of course there's the commercial interest involved. Some of the biggest players are in it for the dollars or trolling for customers.

Avs is the worst place for information and the best place for disinformation, period. Folks would be better off reading a book or watching a good soap opera!

In hindsight we should have kept all of this to ourselves here at the Shack and let them do whatever it is they do there. And don't get the wrong idea either! I don't hate avs! It is a necessary evil! Some folks love to be drama queens and seek the attention of the largest audience they can find. I'm happy that most of the evil is there! They deserve it!

**mechman** · **04-17-08, 06:32 PM**

I found a Pittsburgh Paint dealer close to me. Apparently I was at the wrong site previously when I looked for a local store and it gave me the closes one well over 100 miles away in Wisconsin. Anyways, to make another long story short I purchased some flat Bermuda Beige in their Grand Distinction - it was the more expensive of the three available and I believe it's exclusive to Menards. I've yet to mix it up but I hope to get a panel done soon. As always, and has been the case several times throughout this process, I expect it to perform the same.

**eugovector** · **04-18-08, 07:50 PM**

I just wanted to say good job and thanks for all the work. An awesome contribution to The Shack.

This may have been asked already, but is there any downside to just painting directly on the wall, and then hanging an empty frame for borders?

I know it's been like a year since we first talked about it, but we need to get you guys on the show still.

**wbassett** · **04-18-08, 08:07 PM**

yes definitely.. I even bought my official Skype headset!

It's been a very hectic six months... which I see from your podcasts you've had a pretty busy schedule yourself. We'll catch up with each other soon.

**wbassett** · **04-18-08, 08:10 PM**

Quote:

eugovector wrote:

I just wanted to say god job and thanks for all the work. An awesome contribution to The Shack.

This may have been asked already, but is there any downside to just painting directly on the wall, and then hanging an empty frame for borders?

I know it's been like a year since we first talked about it, but we need to get you guys on the show still.

No downside at all, in fact that's actually what many people that want a screen over 98-100" diagonal end up doing and that's exactly what I have up right now myself.

**graham johnson** · **04-22-08, 10:39 PM**

So this is where you guys went.

Here I was over at AVS and no-one was home !!

I have been experimenting

This is what I posted on AVS.

After eagerly reading this thread and bemoaning the lack of the exact products you use, here in Australia.

I have come up with an Aussie version of the BW. I would like to send MEC a sample of my screen for testing.

It seems fairly neutral in reflectivity.

Has anyone a definitive result of spraying versus rolling??

I have a preferance for spraying and that is what I have done for my screen samples. What have others found ??

I have painted my sample sheets this morning via spray gun.

The base silver acrylic I used has a slight blue push to it. I was hoping the bermuda beige I had mixed (yes Dulux here in Australia here do have a formula for PPG bermuda beige) with it would tame the blue push.

After looking at the sample I think it is slightly pink and a more neutral mix in may sort this.

The silver Acrylic I have found is White Knight Rustguard Advantage made in Australia.

It look very like the Henry's paint you guys have, but water based.

It may be worth getting a sample pot of winter mist and see if its closer than the Bermuda beige.

Issue I have is that the spectral test is by eye. And while I have quite good colour perspective due to being a TV tech for years and setting white balances on CRT TV's.

I am sure a measured sample would be closer.

I will post pic's later tonight when I get home.

**Prof.** · **04-22-08, 11:13 PM**

Hi Graham and welcome aboard...

I was going to make up a BW screen and instead decided to go for a lighter mix..

Mech has sent me a sample of the BB, that I was going to get the local paint store to make up for me..
If you're interested, I can send the sample to you..

I also have 2x 120ml. bottles of the Auto Air Aluminium that I'm planning to sell..

PM me if interested...

**wbassett** · **04-23-08, 02:21 AM**

Welcome to the Shack graham!

Yes this is where we've been for quite awhile. Funny how elsewhere BW is said to be just another gray and I see someone created their own version of it that is somehow better and not just a 'gray'.

Anyway, we are very interested to hear what you found down under and how it works. I know this method works no matter what anyone else says, and it is worth the effort. This is the original version and it is backed up with lots of boring science and testing, both data based as well as empirical. We even did something unheard of and had people beta test it before presenting it. BW is good enough to be sold commercially, but we freely tell people how to do it themselves. If you can bridge the gap down under... that would be fantastic!

Does it work? Well there

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