Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

**mdrake** · **04-26-08, 12:25 AM**

Quote:

Don't expect too much too soon as spring has sprung and I'm flippin' burgers with my spatula! But I'll get panels done of these sooner or later and we'll play 'Mythbusters' again! So far I believe BW is undefeated!

I have been following a lot of the DIY screen threads and have a question. What is "BW"?

Matt

**mechman** · **04-26-08, 04:49 AM**

Matt,

Black Widow.

**mdrake** · **04-26-08, 10:06 AM**

Thanks mech,
DUH I should of figured that out from the thread title but I kept thinking it meant black and white.

Keep on keeping on with all these DIY screen threads. All this research is GREAT. Think of the money that can be saved with a DIY screen. When I am ready to paint I will be asking tons of questions, but for right now I just love to read them.

EDIT: Found the whole thread on Black Widow at the AVS forum and now I understand what BW is.

Matt

**Prof.** · **04-26-08, 08:15 PM**

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graham johnson wrote:

45 degrees off axis, it's started to drop off. 30 degree's is still very uniform. My side seats are at about 30 degrees off axis and sitting in them it still looked rather good.

I will reserve comment till I get a bigger panel done and can verify the hotspotting peformance.

You can only go so far with 3 foot by 2 foot strips of sample panel

Hmm...My seating is 45 degrees off axis so it might be a bit much with the straight silver..

How is the colour balance compared to your white matt screen?

I might have to get some of the White Knight and make up a mix of some sort, as well as the current silvers I have..At least it's available here locally..

**graham johnson** · **04-27-08, 12:33 AM**

Quote:

Prof. wrote:

How is the colour balance compared to your white matt screen?

Colour balance looks quite neutral compared to my White screen. I expect it will little or no adjustment to get it right. We will have to rely on Mech to measure it up I expect.

The Matt finish I sprayed was a Wattyl solvent based spray. I actually intended to use a water based product but didnt think $30 for a litre tin to experiment with was worth it. So bought a spray can to play with.

I will try a water based clear this week for the bigger panel. I dont think a water based Matt will have as much shine as the solvent based one. My test panels still had a glow to them. The water based Matt may be even better.

The Advantage Silver came from Bunnings. Make sure to get the water based one, they have water and solvent based versions in stock.

It sprays really nicely.

**meck11** · **04-27-08, 03:11 PM**

new to this would like to paint black widow over da-lite screen
screen size is 96x54 would I need to prep screen if so What would I use
also would 40 oz be enough
any info woul be really helpful thanks

**Prof.** · **04-27-08, 06:55 PM**

Quote:

graham johnson wrote:

Colour balance looks quite neutral compared to my White screen. I expect it will little or no adjustment to get it right. We will have to rely on Mech to measure it up I expect.

Sounds good..

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I will try a water based clear this week for the bigger panel. I dont think a water based Matt will have as much shine as the solvent based one. My test panels still had a glow to them. The water based Matt may be even better.

Graham..My current screen is Melamine coated with clear matt acrylic..
As you may know, Melamine has quite a sheen to it, and just rolling one coat of the water based matt acrylic I found, completely took out the sheen..

It wasn't a proprietary brand acrylic, but more of a craft product..which I bought from Bunnings..
It's called "Chatsworth Clear Coat Sealer Matt"..It looks like watered down milk and has the same consistency as that..and when dry, it's crystal clear..

Can't remember what I paid for it, but it comes in 1 Litre plastic containers..
You might like to try that for your matt..I think it would spray very well..

Quote:

The Advantage Silver came from Bunnings. Make sure to get the water based one, they have water and solvent based versions in stock.

It sprays really nicely.

Thanks for that..I'll actually be rolling my mix, but I don't think it will be a problem..

**graham johnson** · **04-28-08, 02:25 AM**

Hmmm good luck with the rolling !!! I dont know how that will go. I hope it works. With spraying the particles are very evenly spread.

The Matt clear i bought today was by Dulux and is meant to seal Suede effects paint against dirt etc.

It should be pretty flat. But was $30 for a 1 litre tin !!! Holy !!

All these water based clear's are milky white in the can.

Let me know how you go dude.

**mechman** · **04-28-08, 09:23 AM**

Quote:

meck11 wrote:

new to this would like to paint black widow over da-lite screen
screen size is 96x54 would I need to prep screen if so What would I use
also would 40 oz be enough
any info woul be really helpful thanks

Welcome to the Shack meck11!

Is this a pull down screen? Or is it fixed?

96X54 is a 110" screen so I would think 40oz would be enough for two coats.

**meck11** · **04-28-08, 09:46 AM**

Its fixed with border
should I use primer

thanks

**mechman** · **04-28-08, 09:53 AM**

I would put on at least one coat of primer before painting it.

**meck11** · **04-28-08, 05:35 PM**

other than kilz
what else would you use
thanks again for the info
good site for diy

**wbassett** · **04-29-08, 02:49 PM**

You mean for the primer coat? If so any good primer will work. I like Kilz2 because it's inexpensive, covers well and I can find it anywhere. That plus I always have a gallon around the house for other projects.

**shaolin95** · **05-01-08, 10:18 AM**

Ok, so after reading this and checking all the info, I think I will skip my DW or FG laminate and try this BW. I have NO skills at painting but hopefully this is, in my best Butters voice, "not that hard".
I am planning to keep my current 103" wide screen and my question is what do I paint? I cant do the wall as is not my house nor I feel the wall will be ideal anyway.
What is the gain for this screen?

PS When replying to my questions and giving me some guidance, please be very specific, just like if you were talking to a 5 year old...I am basically that when it comes to painting and the required equipment. :-)

**mechman** · **05-02-08, 09:17 AM**

Quote:

shaolin95 wrote:

Ok, so after reading this and checking all the info, I think I will skip my DW or FG laminate and try this BW. I have NO skills at painting but hopefully this is, in my best Butters voice, "not that hard".
I am planning to keep my current 103" wide screen and my question is what do I paint? I cant do the wall as is not my house nor I feel the wall will be ideal anyway.
What is the gain for this screen?

PS When replying to my questions and giving me some guidance, please be very specific, just like if you were talking to a 5 year old...I am basically that when it comes to painting and the required equipment. :-)

No gain measurements have been done and I've refused to guess - I hate when people guess. As for what to paint... that becomes a bit difficult as you're not going to do the wall. And it needs to be wider than 48" for your 103" screen. I guess I'd try to pick up some sort 5x8' material at a local home improvement store to paint. You can usually special order mdf in that size. But they may have something cheap that you can use.

**shaolin95** · **05-02-08, 09:32 AM**

So, material surface is not an issue?

**wbassett** · **05-02-08, 10:11 AM**

Here's my two cents worth.

Gain readings will be done, but we want to make sure we're doing it right and in a reliable way. I wouldn't worry too much about gain in your situation though. With the amount of lumens you have, the last thing you need is a lot of gain. Part of the reason for an ND filter is to drop the lumens, in affect the same as reducing the 'gain'.

103" is going to be a tough one because it is 'just outside' the 100" diagonal max you can get with a 4'x8' substrate. Normally I don't tell a person to alter their desired screen size, but in this case you are so close to the 100" mark that honestly I don't think you're going to experience any dramatic difference between 103" screen and a 100" screen. What you will gain though is access to a wide range of substrates that you can now use! Once you drop to that 100" mark you can grab just about anything from Lowes, Home Depot, or your local lumber yard. 1/8th inch hardboard at my local lumber yard is $8 a sheet for a 4'x8' sheet. (One thing to note: You can get a 100" diagional screen out of a 4x8 sheet, but that is using the full width of the panel)

The thinner hardboard is lighter but also is more flexible and will require a nice rigid frame. The 1/4" hard board isn't much more expensive and is stiffer, but also weighs around twice as much.

Then there is MDF, which a lot of people use but to me this is over kill and adds a tremendous amount of weight.

There also is the plastic sanitary panels that can be used. They will require a good primer first, but I always recommend priming first anyway.

One thing that I've used for test panels that works nicely too is paneling. I use the smooth back side of the paneling, prime it and then paint whatever I want on it. The beauty of it is it's inexpensive and one of the most light weight of off the options.

If you really must have the 103" size screen, then you need to go with a fabric or look for a larger size substrate. One option if you decide to go the paint route is to check Lowes, Home Depot, and your local lumber yards and look for a more generic brand of laminate. You really don't care what color it is, but I'd go with a basic white because that will be easier to cover with primer without worrying about color bleed. The benefit of going this route is it is cheaper and you can get it in larger sizes than 4x8. I would see if they can cut it to size for you too.

All will require a frame, but so will the laminate so in that respect the frame isn't anything extra or anything harder than what you would have to deal with as far as a laminate and building the frame for that.

Painting isn't hard, but I recommend practicing some first. If your wife, girlfriend or significant other has been hounding you to repaint a bedroom or something... give it a shot! I'm one of the few people that firmly believe painting a screen should not be some complex method... if you can paint a wall you can paint a screen. However... if you can't paint a wall, I'd recommend a simple substrate method like you were originally thinking about.

Last question, what is your desired budget?

**shaolin95** · **05-02-08, 10:26 AM**

Thanks for the response.
One clarification though, my screen is 103" but that is wide so there is quite a big difference if I were to go from about 118" diag to 100". My budget? I havent thought about it really...I was getting the DW for $93 so I guess the closest to $100 overall will be best but I supposed under $200 will be my limit.
About the frame, when I was thinking on getting the laminate...I was hoping to forget the frame and just nail it to the wall...wouldnt that work as well and then just build a fake frame around the screen?
I guess I can also ask the home owner about painting the wall if thats going to make things that much easier...I supposed it wont be to hard to repaint it to its original form right?
Regards

**mechman** · **05-02-08, 01:58 PM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

Gain readings will be done, but we want to make sure we're doing it right and in a reliable way. I wouldn't worry too much about gain in your situation though. With the amount of lumens you have, the last thing you need is a lot of gain. Part of the reason for an ND filter is to drop the lumens, in affect the same as reducing the 'gain'.

Agreed!

It's more a matter of me finding time to do it all. I have everything I need. And I've even got it figured out. Just need 32 hours in every day for the next few months!

**shaolin95** · **05-02-08, 03:16 PM**

The advantage of the ND2 of course is that when the Lamp dims, I remove the filter and sort of get a "new" lamp. :-)

**shaolin95** · **05-02-08, 09:42 PM**

Ok so lets see if I get this right, I first need to get my surface be it wall or 4x8 panel.
Then I use Kilz2 right?
Then I wait whatever I need to wait and paint it with the 4:1 mix of AAA and Bermuda Beige or Hnery 558 and Luminous White (which ever I select).
Is that all?
I read something about using a base and other stuff that for someone that knows NOTHING about painting, gets pretty complicated.

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