Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

[teke]

I could never figure out the benefit of calibrating it. I have used one of the THX programs on a pixar dvd, but in the end I just use it how it came from epson.

The process for rolling:

Taped off current kilz screen (54" x 96" .... 110" diagonal). Used a standard 7" roller. At home depot I purchased a 1/4" nap Purdy (brand) roller, ($8 for a single roller), that is double vacuumed so that there is no lint. The screen is painted directly on my wall.

I rolled as per your tutorial, smoothly top to bottom, then going back over the previous wet line. Layed the first coat down and the waited about an hour and did a second coat. The quart of valspar and the AAA was plenty of paint, I probably could have done a third coat with no problem.

If I look closely at the wall you can see the aluminum speckle throughout the paint. There are no roller marks and it layed down pretty easy.

[wbassett]

Great and thanks for responding teke.

Sounds like you have a 'picture perfect' BW installation and it wasn't that hard was it?

The aluminum you are seeing is really the key. Without those speckles, it would be an N7-N7.5 gray and would really mute the image brightness.

The tutorial is also how I paint walls when I paint a room. Painting a screen should not be any more difficult than painting a wall... if a person can do that then they can do a screen.

[wbassett]

I also see it being mentioned other places to thin the BW mix with water. I contend that this is not necessary. The Createx Auto Air Aluminum is already thinning the mix. Basically you're adding 8 ounces of a material that is already close to the consistency of water, that's around 25% of a thinner material being added right there. Any more water and in my experience it becomes way too runny and doesn't roll well. Plus it drips and splatters more.

I've seen people say that by adding water it will thin the mix and make it a smoother surface when rolled, and others have said and debated that adding water thins out the concentration of aluminum...

Well, I'd like to say it right now and for the record. We developed BW and I think if anyone knows how and why it works and how to apply it, that it would be the people that developed it. I urge anyone out there interested in making a Black Widow screen to please follow the easy directions we provided and not to listen to third party sources that may not be familiar with the application. Their intentions certainly are good, but if there are any questions I am sure we can answer them just fine.

A quick recap, adding water is not necessary unless you are spraying, then thin as recommended for your sprayer.

Rolling- No special methods are required, but a good quality roller cover is definitely recommended.

Any other questions... just ask!

[Toocrunk]

Well, I painted yesterday and all I can say it.....WOW! I got the job done before the game came on so that was a plus. I ment to chime in yesterday, but was too busy watching TV. This is what I did.....

I mixed everything up in a gallon pail. First I put in half a quart of the Bermuda Beige then I a bottle of 4oz AAA. Then I mixed a tad with one of the free paint sticks I got from Lowes. Once it seemed mixed/turned gray, I added the remaining quart of Bermuda Beige and another 4oz bottle of AAA and mixed again. Once it looked mixed I pulled out my drill and started mixing the paint again to be sure it was mixed well.

Since everything was already taped off and sanded, I started painting. The paint rolled on VERY smooth and easy. I took long strokes until the screen was completly painted. Imediatly after painting I turned my projector on, and was like OK.....Looks good, but wet. Seemed too bright and the colors really needed to be tweaked. So, instead of tinkering around with it, me and a friend went to the liquor store for Beer/Snacks for the game. Came back about a little over a hour later and the screen was **** near dry.

Turned the projector back on and things looked better(not so bright anymore). Things looked ALOT better, but just not what I was looking for. So I popped in my kids Monsters Inc. DVD and did a THX calibration. I set it up off the "Theater" presets and adjusted as needed.....and WOW! I could not believe the difference. I then switched from the DVD to my Comcast HD box and turned to ESPN2 and man I could not believe it.

This is soooo much better than a white wall. I have been connecting everything to my projector. The best picture comes from my PC for some reason(Radeon 3850). After school today I am going to pick up a BluRay Drive for my PC and see how it performs. Overall I am VERY pleased and would like to thank all that contributed to this mix.

Also, I'd like to add that before I left this morning, I noticed the picture still looked good with sunlight coming into the room. Blacks looked black and colors still looked bold. I could be wrong, but the picture lookded a bit better this morning than it did last night. I guess it wasn't completly dry or whatever. Will see how it performs later tonight. Though overall, I am very impressed.

[wbassett]

Crunk with all paints, not just BW even after it is dry it still can be up to a week before the paint is fully cured. The picture should get better as the paint fully cures. So if you're happy now, in a week you should be very pleased.

[mechman]

wbassett wrote:

A quick recap, adding water is not necessary unless you are spraying, then thin as recommended for your sprayer.

I better add to this. Water is recommended for the HE-558 version of Black Widow. HE-558 is a thick roof coating and when combined with a thick paint it needs to be thinned just a bit in my experience.

But as Bill and Harp have already mentioned, AAA requires no thinning when rolling. I'll be spraying today and tomorrow so I'll have a better feel for thinning AAA for spraying later.

[percept]

wbassett wrote:

Great and thanks for responding teke.

Sounds like you have a 'picture perfect' BW installation and it wasn't that hard was it?

The aluminum you are seeing is really the key. Without those speckles, it would be an N7-N7.5 gray and would really mute the image brightness.

The tutorial is also how I paint walls when I paint a room. Painting a screen should not be any more difficult than painting a wall... if a person can do that then they can do a screen.

wow, you got some mighty fine patience if you paint walls the same way....better watch out for that tennis elbow. my wall-painting technique is characterized by impatience, speed, and neglected white spots.

[percept]

Toocrunk wrote:

Turned the projector back on and things looked better(not so bright anymore). Things looked ALOT better, but just not what I was looking for. So I popped in my kids Monsters Inc. DVD and did a THX calibration. I set it up off the "Theater" presets and adjusted as needed.....and WOW! I could not believe the difference. I then switched from the DVD to my Comcast HD box and turned to ESPN2 and man I could not believe it.

good review. i wouldn't take that thx calibration as accurate when using your cable box. you may have gotten lucky, but different sources need their own calibration. your dvd player may display colors differently than your cable box. it's probably better to calibrate according to the hdnet calibration screen (if that still exists). the picture may get even better.

[wbassett]

percept wrote:

wow, you got some mighty fine patience if you paint walls the same way....better watch out for that tennis elbow. my wall-painting technique is characterized by impatience, speed, and neglected white spots.

Not really percept... my point is that screen painting isn't any harder than painting a wall.

I know a lot of people that use that 'W' technique that some (not all) professional painters use and you often see them do on TV. Personally I think that method stinks and is prone to missing spots, especially if you are painting white on white. I paint kinda like I mow, I do a straight line, turn around and overlap slightly where I just cut, and make another straight line... repeat until finished!

I paint the same way, pretty much like in the tutorial and I have never had any issues with roller marks or missing spots.

[mechman]

Added UKBW (Black Widow in the UK) and the AussieBW to the presentation sticky.

[mechman]

I've been very busy lately helping some people out over in the UK get their Black Widow ironed out and working. It's finished over there now and here are a couple pictures from one of the UK-BW folks.

These are from an SD projector I believe and the individual is very happy with the results!









Testimonial:

The wall was originally painted with one or two coats of bog standard matt white wall paint.

I normally cover my velux windows if I am using the PJ during the day but I wanted to test BW in the worst possible environment.....loads of ambient light and loads of white wall! I guess the pictures really do speak for themselves. The mrs was also surprised and finally admitted that I have not been wasting my time researching paints!!!

I am now seriously doubting whether I need black velvet around the sides and the ceiling but I've managed to source 11 meters of triple black velvet for £50 so might just give it a go next month.

Cant wait to see what the picture will be like in the dark after i get the second coat on.

Once again...Thanks to you guys for all your hard work. I only stumbled on this thread about two weeks ago.

Regards

[mechman]

Some more pictures in darkness:

Just got back in an hour ago and the second coat had dried. Fired up the PJ and seriously guys I am very very surprised by how good this BW stuff is. The image quality when viewed in a dark environment is just amazing. I honestly cannot tell the difference between the image on my wall and the image on the £3,500 58 inch panny plasma I saw in Costco this morning.

I felt the urge to take a few snaps as the camera was right beside me. Shots are not very good as i just can't get the camera settings right in a dark environment. The actual image I was viewing was alot better. I know it's only SD but they may be useful in convincing others to get onboard

[wbassett]

mech that looks really good to me. Glad the UK guys found materials that work for them.

Those images also show that Black Widow (mainly the whole aluminum concept) can make a very dark screen perform like a much lighter screen. The lights on shots compared to a white wall shows the difference and is very pronounced.

I maintain that the original statement of blacker blacks and whiter whites was not unfounded claims and hype as was said early on by some. This stuff really works!

[wbassett]

Just saw this on another site- made me feel pretty good!

Just finished painting two coats of black widow on my wall screen (112 inch) Going from a flat white wall to this, using an Epson 720 and all i can say is WOW WOW WOW!! my picture for hdtv just jumps off the screen and blu-ray is amazing. $25 worth of paint for a 112 inch plasma tv on my wall, just does not get better then that.I would just like to thank everyone on here for this awesome mix and anyone with an Epson 720 do not think twice.....

I'll add to that list, anyone with a Panasonic AX200 doesn't need to think twice either- no matter if they have total light control or not.

[mechman]

I don't think I've seen this kind of acceptance in quite some time - if ever. I wonder what the naysayers are saying now! It's pretty obvious that everything we've said is true!

[Mike P.]

mech, any idea what projector the UK person is using?

[eugovector]

All of this looks amazing. Keep up the good work guys.

[mechman]

Mike P. wrote:

mech, any idea what projector the UK person is using?

PT-AE2000

[eugovector]

mechman wrote:

PT-AE2000

Now I'm confused. I thought they were using an SD projector. The AE2000 is HD (1080p). Was it just the content that was SD?