Black Widow PFG - the Discussion

**tradewinds** · **02-10-08, 08:29 AM**

Not that anything is wrong, but is the SW LW pulled as a recommended base? I still see it in the first post of this thread.

**bidzer** · **02-10-08, 09:54 AM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

I just want to restate something.

These on going tests do not mean there is a problem with the Black Widow application presented in the main presentation thread. We are working on alternate methods to make a Black Widow to ensure there are plenty of options for people to get whatever is available and most convenient for them but still end up with the same exact performance.

Part of the reason for this thread is to show why it took so long to get BW 'to market' so to speak. Many months were spent behind the scenes developing this. What you are seeing now is a glimpse of what we have been doing the past several months as far as working on the main Black Widow application. It takes time and if nothing this thread shows how much time and effort can go into getting something right.

The concept was easy, the execution is what kills most things and we want to make sure the final result is just the same as what is shown in the presentation thread. So like I said, please don't take this as there is a problem with Black Widow, we're looking at as many alternatives and options as possible, but it will be the same performance no matter which option you choose.

Well put explanation. So, if you can score the HE558, you'd better get it

**bidzer** · **02-10-08, 09:59 AM**

Quote:

tradewinds wrote:

Not that anything is wrong, but is the SW LW pulled as a recommended base? I still see it in the first post of this thread.

Great question...

Well I had the pleasure of meeting Muzz for the first time online. He was using the Benjamin Chantilly Lace as a base. He also had another BM base as well, the name slips my mind at the moment. I'm going to go with BW within the next 2 weeks and the base is my only remaining question mark as well.

I can't take the Kilz2 any longer now that I have the baseline for what the SP-7210 can do.

Cheers

**muzz** · **02-10-08, 10:08 AM**

The other base I used is BM Pearl River.

I think Mech is gonna send a hit squad to my house if he doesn't get those samples soon.....

**Harpmaker** · **02-10-08, 11:43 AM**

Quote:

tradewinds wrote:

Not that anything is wrong, but is the SW LW pulled as a recommended base? I still see it in the first post of this thread.

I don't know if it's been officially pulled or not, but I have sprayed both mixes and they are almost the same shade of gray (mech's batch was a little lighter than the Winter Mist/He558 5:1 mix, mine was a tad darker). What it all boils down to is neutrality, and the Winter Mist formula wins there.

**mechman** · **02-10-08, 12:53 PM**

To be blunt, yes. LW is not recommended as the Winter Mist comes in dang near dead on neutral. And we figured with the color matching abilities of Lowe's and as well as other store's ability to match it, it makes no sense to keep one around that is only a 'near' neutral.

muzz's will be added once Guido gets to his house, ransacks it, and gets me a sample so I can spectro it! Look out muzz!

It has to come in neutral as well.

So in a nutshell LW can be used, but why bother when you can use WM. muzz used Benjamin Moore paint because he has a penchant for high quality paint, which is admirable and encouraged by myself!

muzz - where do you get your Ben Moore paint? And they cannot color match other colors right?

mech

**muzz** · **02-10-08, 02:10 PM**

I got my Ben Moore at the local Ace Hardware store.

They will mix up whatever BM paint is closest to the brand/color you ask them to.
For example, I went there to get a match for SW grey screen, she looked it up on the computer, and the closest match they had was "Pebble Beach".
So she mixed that up.

I don't believe they have a spectro to actually match the color chips at this location, although I never asked, or looked for one.

**Harpmaker** · **02-10-08, 03:56 PM**

My Ace hardware only sells Ace brand house paints, but I think they can match BM paints, as well as SW, PPG and a few other brands; they can also spectro-match (I just did this for a quart of a Munsell N5).

I can get real BM paints at a local hardware chain called Coles; and they can match colors via spectro. This same store can get me a single gallon of Henry 558, but it's a seasonal item and won't be available from their warehouse until Spring.

**Prof.** · **02-10-08, 05:50 PM**

Quote:

cynical2 wrote:

Yeah...that makes things tough. It's nearly impossible for us (in the States) to know what paint is available everywhere else. I spent some time on the Australian Google site looking for something analogous to easyRGB...a site with RGB data on paints available in Australia...but didn't find anything. At least we located aluminum in Australia now...

I suppose an option would be for someone to stick a paint chip of the correct color (once finalized for AAA) in an envelope and mail it to you. You could then bring it to your best paint matching company in Australia and have 'em mix a liter.

Actually, I think that's an EXCELLENT idea Jim...Not just for me but for anyone, anywhere in the World, who can then get it matched to the paint brands available in their Country..

It would be some extra work for someone it's true, but I'm sure it would be very much appreciated by all concerned..

**tradewinds** · **02-10-08, 11:55 PM**

A new Lowes that recently opened up in my neck of the woods appears to have the Black Jack for about $10 a gallon (It has a 300 on the can, is this the right one?) In any case, the work was stopped so there is no recommended base for it...correct?

**cynical2** · **02-11-08, 03:06 AM**

Quote:

tradewinds wrote:

A new Lowes that recently opened up in my neck of the woods appears to have the Black Jack for about $10 a gallon (It has a 300 on the can, is this the right one?) In any case, the work was stopped so there is no recommended base for it...correct?

Hi, TW!

No, the 300 has 2 problems...it is fibered and it's oil-based. The Henry is water-based and non-fibered. And, you're correct...since Bill checked with GG (the company that makes BJ) and they said the water-based, non-fibered Blackjack was discontinued, work to find the best base for it was abandoned.

For folks interested in BW...I'm going to give a bit of advice. Do yourself a favor and just spend the 30 bucks ordering the HE558 online. If you're spending a lot of time looking locally, you're likely wasting your time.

Back when PFG was under development, I took an entire day driving to every hardware/paint store in the greater Cincinnati area looking for water-based, non-fibered aluminum roof coating. Took a day of vacation from work to do it! And, while I could occasionally find non-fibered, I could not find water-based and NF.

Seriously, between the time you'll spend, the frustration you'll feel, and the gas you'll waste...it's just not worth it. Spend the $3x to order it online and move on with your happy life.

**tradewinds** · **02-11-08, 10:08 AM**

Quote:

cynical2 wrote:

Seriously, between the time you'll spend, the frustration you'll feel, and the gas you'll waste...it's just not worth it. Spend the $3x to order it online and move on with your happy life.

Thanks man. Actually, funny thing, I was not actually or actively looking. I went to lowes to get some materials to build my stage and screen wall, and while in the section to pick up the 6 mil plastic sheeting for the sand, the Black Jack was sitting right next to it looking at me

. Anyway, although I slightly remembered

the work was stopped, I just thought I'll see if anyone did use it.

**Jodean** · **02-16-08, 02:00 PM**

Ok guys i have my BW mixed up. I have no idea how much henry made it into the mix......it is really thick stuff and its globbered on my measuring cup yet so i know i have 6 oz for sure but dont think i have the 6.4 as stated.

My questions is....is this a one coat thing? I never found any of that reading through the two threads. I hope so cause i doubt the quart will make the first coat of the screen. I think i should have grabbed 2 quarts.

Starting soon, so would like to know if one coat is acceptable.....im using the WM, i sure hope they mixed that right, first he grabbed a gallon(i thought why not its cheaper than buying quarts) and almost mixed up the eggshell unitl i noticed it was the wrong gallon. They then looked for flat and they didnt have any gallons, just 3 quarts on the shelf. The first two quarts i ordered they put in the mix for the gallon into each quart.....it was way darker and i dont have a color chart to check to make sure what WM is supposed to look like. Anyone have the paint code that is on the color pallet? The true value label didnt list a code on the winter mist label.

**mechman** · **02-16-08, 02:25 PM**

Quote:

Jodean wrote:

Ok guys i have my BW mixed up. I have no idea how much henry made it into the mix......it is really thick stuff and its globbered on my measuring cup yet so i know i have 6 oz for sure but dont think i have the 6.4 as stated.

My questions is....is this a one coat thing? I never found any of that reading through the two threads. I hope so cause i doubt the quart will make the first coat of the screen. I think i should have grabbed 2 quarts.

Starting soon, so would like to know if one coat is acceptable.....im using the WM, i sure hope they mixed that right, first he grabbed a gallon(i thought why not its cheaper than buying quarts) and almost mixed up the eggshell unitl i noticed it was the wrong gallon. They then looked for flat and they didnt have any gallons, just 3 quarts on the shelf. The first two quarts i ordered they put in the mix for the gallon into each quart.....it was way darker and i dont have a color chart to check to make sure what WM is supposed to look like. Anyone have the paint code that is on the color pallet? The true value label didnt list a code on the winter mist label.

It is thick stuff! A quart should get you two coats for a 106" screen. One thing you may need to add is a little water. No more than 4oz. If you're rolling it vertical, have a light off to one side shining on it to avoid roller marks. When you're finished , go back and roll over the whole screen from the top down, overlapping the heel side with the next pass. Apply no pressure when making this pass as it's eliminating roller marks and, according to Henry, aligning the aluminum flakes.

The Winter Mist formula is:
B 2
R .5
L .5

It should be a light gray.

mech

**Jodean** · **02-16-08, 03:15 PM**

oh great.......it was mixed 2-1-1 it says so right on the lid.......why would they do that?? Does the computer round it up when switching to a quart...

Hmm.....id say stay away from true value.....this would be quart number 3 messed up....

Joe

EDIT...

checked the label again and it says "2" shots B and "1" half-shot for each R and L ....so i guess it is right....kinda weird the way the labeled it.

**nuclearsunshine** · **02-16-08, 07:08 PM**

Ok, this may be simple for you paint experts

, but I'm a paint novice on my best day.

I attempted to get some True Value Winter Mist at Lowes. However, I found that just knowing the name of the paint was not enough for me.

The first sign of trouble was that the gentleman helping me wasn't sure how to match paint just by name and without a sample. We got pointed in the right direction by another guy and started our search.

We first looked for True Value in their system. No luck. If it's in there it isn't spelled out as such like other companies were. We next searched by name and two entries for Winter Mist came up.

I guessed and picked one to see what else it was going to ask. Next was the choice of finish, which I assumed was matte/flat and then I was faced with the choice of several different Valspar bases (at least I think that's what it was asking). Of course, the guy helping me had no idea what made one base different from another.

At this point I decided to pull the eject lever and come back here for more info before heading back into battle.

So, uh,

what exactly do I need to ask for at Lowes to get them to make the right Winter Mist?

**mechman** · **02-16-08, 08:49 PM**

NS,

You and I have similar Lowe's apparently!

I could not get it at any of mine either. I do, however, have the tint ingredients for it!

This is in a Valspar Ultra Premium Interior Flat Enamel Flat Base 1

104 - 0.5
109 - 0.5
102 - 2

mech

**Harpmaker** · **02-16-08, 09:07 PM**

Here is a copy of the label from my Lowe's quart can of True Value winter Mist match.

The base paint that is used. Sorry for the bad color; I had to use my finger to shade the flash. In case you can't read it, it says "Flat Base 1 210170"

The whole can.

This should be all you need!

Mech answered while I was taking the photos and composing my post.

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