Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

**mechman** · **03-12-08, 07:16 PM**

How do we get the RGB data from that Dulux web page?

Am I missing something? Throw me a bone!

mech

**Prof.** · **03-12-08, 07:31 PM**

Bottom of the page, left hand side it has download RGB values..But I just tried it and it wouldn't load for me..

**Harpmaker** · **03-12-08, 07:52 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

Harp,

I'm at work and don't have the numbers in front of me right so bear with me!

Was the Winter Mist a True Value paint or a Lowe's/someplace else matched? Which base? I don't think I've tried my Lowe's Winter Mist with HE558 yet. The recent panel I painted was leftovers from the original mix I did with the TV base. I wonder if there would be a difference with regards to the bases...

mech

Yes, I mixed my Winter Mist/HE558 5:1 mix using True Value paint. They used their EZF-P Pure White (pastel) base.

If you kept the samples I sent, or remember them, the TV Winter Mist had a very slight reddish tinge to it. You measured it as being RGB: 226-223-224 / L*ab: 89.1, 1.30, -0.09. I mentioned this color tinge when I was reporting my findings via PM when I was beta testing.

I got a Winter Mist color match from Lowe's that you measured as being RGB: 218-221-222 / L*ab: 87.8, -0.54, -1.17. It looks like I should mix these two WM paints to get a more neutral WM!

**sfdoddsy** · **03-12-08, 08:27 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

How do we get the RGB data from that Dulux web page?

Am I missing something? Throw me a bone!

mech

Just click on a colour sample and a pop-up window opens with the values. To see all the colour samples, click on a small colour in the Colour Bar and a full range of shades opens up.

I tried to attach the Excel file for all the RGB values but it say the file type is too big. I can email it to you if you like.

**mechman** · **03-12-08, 11:19 PM**

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

Yes, I mixed my Winter Mist/HE558 5:1 mix using True Value paint. They used their EZF-P Pure White (pastel) base.

Same base as mine!

If you kept the samples I sent, or remember them, the TV Winter Mist had a very slight reddish tinge to it. You measured it as being RGB: 226-223-224 / L*ab: 89.1, 1.30, -0.09. I mentioned this color tinge when I was reporting my findings via PM when I was beta testing.

I got a Winter Mist color match from Lowe's that you measured as being RGB: 218-221-222 / L*ab: 87.8, -0.54, -1.17. It looks like I should mix these two WM paints to get a more neutral WM!

That's experimenting! lol!

mech

**mechman** · **03-12-08, 11:20 PM**

Quote:

sfdoddsy wrote:

Just click on a colour sample and a pop-up window opens with the values. To see all the colour samples, click on a small colour in the Colour Bar and a full range of shades opens up.

I tried to attach the Excel file for all the RGB values but it say the file type is too big. I can email it to you if you like.

That'd be great Steve!

Email it!

Disregard this! I found it and downloaded it!

mech

**mechman** · **03-12-08, 11:33 PM**

I kind of like the Angel's Face color from Dulux. I'll be studying the list more though...

Prof - do not go with Camisole! Those RGBs don't line up well at all.

mech

**03-12-08, 11:34 PM**

Just purchased a gallon of the Henry Aluminum Roof Coating. I'll be swinging by sherwin williams tomorrow to grab some of the luminous white, a strainer, and a mixing bucket.

My home theather's on hiatus as my projector is currently in the process of eventually being picked up by UPS so it can be shipped to Jersey where Samsung will receive it and then send me a refurb.

What better way to celebrate its return than with a new screen.

For reference, I've been using a Samsung SP-H710AE on two coats of gray screen on top of two coats of kilz. I've been thrilled with the results, but I'm really excited to see how black widow works out.

I'll report back with my findings!

**03-12-08, 11:54 PM**

Glad I did a little more reading before retiring. It sounds like Winter Mist is the better route to go.

Since True Value is as convenient as Sherwin Williams, I might as well!

**sfdoddsy** · **03-13-08, 12:12 AM**

The Ellen Half is still the closest I've found.

**03-13-08, 01:06 AM**

After digging even further, I found the AAA method, and that looks to be significantly cheaper than the alternative. I was able to order 4 oz (should be enough for my 80 inch screen) for just a bit over 10 bucks shipped priority mail. Saved myself 25 dollars over the Henry aluminum.

So, I'll pick up a quart of the bermuda beige tomorrow. Hopefully have the AAA by Monday, and get the screen painted on Tuesday. Then I wait...

**sfdoddsy** · **03-13-08, 07:55 PM**

Well, my paints have arrived, both the AAA and the base. I should have the screen done tonight.

**Prof.** · **03-13-08, 09:39 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

I kind of like the Angel's Face color from Dulux. I'll be studying the list more though...

Prof - do not go with Camisole! Those RGBs don't line up well at all.

mech

No..I certainly wont be using that..It just looked similar to the naked eye, prior to seeing the RGB values..
I'll actually be using Solver Paints..not Dulux..that's the closest paint brand to me and they have good quality paints..

**sfdoddsy** · **03-14-08, 08:15 AM**

Alas, so far there are no magical properties evident.

I applied the first coat about six hours ago. The distinct red tinge of the base became a light grey when I mixed them, and it rolled on very easily.

As I painted, the shade seemed remarkably close to my current screen, and after a few hours my opinion hasn't changed. There may be deeper blacks and brighter whites, but not that I would swear to.

However, given I was expecting the BW to be darker than my current grey screen, I suspect my slapstick mixing skills may be at fault.

I was going for a 4:1 mix of about 400ml but measured by eye. I may be Al deficient.

EDIT:

I've done another coat with more AAA. It has gone down darker and more 'metallic' so we will see how it looks in the morning.

**mechman** · **03-14-08, 08:36 AM**

Can't wait to hear Steve!

Also, did you prime the old before applying new?

mech

**sfdoddsy** · **03-14-08, 07:08 PM**

No, this is a temporary test screen so I just painted over my old screen. Now it has dried overnight it is definitely darker than my old screen, but I will test it tonight. I also have an Optoma Graywolf Screen which I will compare it againt.

**cynical2** · **03-15-08, 09:54 AM**

Also interested in your results Steve...let us know what you think!

**tonywood** · **03-15-08, 09:27 PM**

I am also interested. I would like to upgrade from a graywolf II screen.

**cynical2** · **03-15-08, 10:51 PM**

Quote:

tonywood wrote:

I am also interested. I would like to upgrade from a graywolf II screen.

Welcome to the Shack, Tony!

**sfdoddsy** · **03-16-08, 07:01 AM**

Ok, here's my review. I've tried to take a couple of screen shots, but they are not the best.

I've been using a neutral grey painted screen (RGB 199 200 200) I'll call NG8. I also have Optoma Graywolf II screen material which I extracted from one of their pull down screens. For those not familiar with it, it is a dark grey glass beaded screen of 1.8 gain. I actually quite like it, but the screen surace is very visible, and once marked it is impossible to clean. Mine has marks. I've also just returned a Da-Lite HCCV screen since there was little difference between it and my NG8.

I'd like the Holy Grail - deeper blacks and brighter whites. A DIY Firehawk. My projector is a Sony VW60 and screen size is 120" I have full light control but do sometimes view with a light on.

First I painted a coat of AAA BW over my NG8. But I didn't put in enough AAA as the shades were basically identical. So I recoated with a more strictly measured 4:1 mix. This was darker and is about the same shade of grey as the Graywolf.

I watched a couple of movies on this, mainly the original Star Wars. Then I covered half the screen with the Graywolf and watched again.

The good news is that the blacks were noticeably darker than the already good blacks from the Graywolf. Less good was that so were the whites. But is no surprise that BW can't match the 1.8 gain of the Graywolf. You can see the differences in the flash shot I took of the two. Obviously it is not as dramatic with real images.

Of the two, I would rather have the deeper blacks than the slightly overcooked whites of the Graywolf.

However, the whites with the BW were pretty dim, even without the Graywolf as reference, and my projector was on the verge of running out of horsepower. So I decided to be all scientific and repainted half the screen with NG8, a shade I know also produces better blacks than the Graywolf.

Here things got interesting.

The NG8 produced blacks almost as deep as the BW, but with noticeably better whites. Both are about equal in color balance to my eyes with the NG8 perhaps a tad rosier.

I've attached shots.

The first shows the Graywolf on the left and BW on right with flash. You can see how bright the GW gets. The next shows the BW on the left and NG8 on the right under flash.

The next is a starfield from Star Wars. Here you can see how close the black levels are. The screens cross over just to the left of the central moon.

Then we have the spaceship flyover. Here the differences in white levels become more obvious. And then finally an even more obvious shot of Darth inside the white spaceship.

To summarize then, for me the Black Widow has not proved to have any real advantage over the Neutral Grey screen. The marginally improved blacks are offset by significantly worse whites, as one would expect from a darker grey.

In mitigation, I may have gone too far to the dark side when I remixed the BW for the second coat so I will probably recoat the BW side of the screen with an inbetween mix.

But for the moment, unless I bite the bullet and go Firehawk, the NG8 still seems to be the screen to beat.

This may change if you have a brighter projector.

**Harpmaker** · **03-16-08, 08:43 AM**

Thanks for the review and photos Steve!

I know this is a very subjective question, but how prominent is the aluminum in your final BW AAA screen? About how far away from the screen do you have to get before you can no longer see the flakes?

**tonywood** · **03-16-08, 09:46 AM**

On my graywolf II screen the whites are ok, it's the mid-range colors that seem to be muted compared to white. I had 1 quart of Glidden Universal Gray Flat mixed with about 6oz of gloss white and 4 oz of water before the graywolf II - and the graywolf II wins that battle fairly easy. I have two problems with the graywolf II - mid-range range colors and screen texture.

Mech, could we use some gloss white to lighten this mix and possible added a little shean over the flat? Like maybe 20oz oz WM, 4oz he558, 4oz gloss white or semi-gloss?

**sfdoddsy** · **03-16-08, 10:04 AM**

The aluminium is effectively invisible on both the lighter and darker coats I tried.

As for the Graywolf, I'm bugged by the dirtiness of the image due to the screen texture and the marks which I caused when preparing it but which cannot be removed and appear as black spots. I like my screens to be invisible.

**muzz** · **03-16-08, 10:26 AM**

What mixes did you guys use?

I'm a little confused, as I see mention of the AAA and Winter Mist?

The AAA is to be mixed with Bermuda Beige, and the Henry 558 is to be mixed with Winter Mist or Luminous white.
The Luminous white mix has been shown to be not as neutral as the WM/558 though.

**sfdoddsy** · **03-16-08, 10:49 AM**

I used AAA with a Dulux (Australia) flat water based paint in a shade called Ellen Half. It is the closest I could find to the Bermuda Beige (RGB 234 212 199). Neutrality is not the problem I have.

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