Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

[wbassett]

Right now it looks like the guys are still testing things so for a lighter gray I'd say take a look at C&S.

[Harpmaker]

Matt,

C&S will give you a bit darker screen than Kilz2 while maintaining the same white-level as Kilz2. It is in no way an ambient light solution, but it will provide better black-levels than a lighter screen if this is needed.

I've been messing with the Projector Pro calculator and as far as I can see your PJ would work fine with the original BW mix. The only thing is perhaps you don't want to try a screen that dark.

We are running into a few anomalies with the lighter BW mixes and want to be sure they perform properly before releasing them. Sorry for the wait, but everyone developing them is busy with "real life" issues, so the progress is slow.

Wbassett has a great write-up on gain, but I forget where exactly it is, my bad. It is my opinion that high gain screens are no longer needed, or even desired, for most of the name-brand projectors in use today. Whenever a screen has a positive gain (anything over 1.0) it WILL have a viewing cone. The higher the gain, the smaller the viewing cone. At one time such limitations had to be tolerated because the projectors were so dim, that is no longer the case with most projectors today when used in a dedicated home theater.

[jsegura3]

E-A-G-L-E-S wrote:

Well, a little time goes by and all sorts of things change.
I still can't understand the off white looking that good compared to the Kilz2 as it was the Planar 7060, a pretty good 720p DC3 PJ which has good blacks and excellent color points and greyscale.


I need some advice. I now own a Planar pd7150 which is two steps up the food chain on the 720p Planar line-up.
It is a remarkeable 720p DLP DC3, but it isn't the brightest in the world.
It does share all the pro's of the 7060 but has more ansi contrast and a little less light output in best mode.
......so I'm thinking I might want a lighter shade than Black Widow.

Also, can someone explain why people use high power gain screens with PJ's unless they are in a very bright room? Is there something I don't understand about them since I've never used one?

Suggestions? Reccomendations?

A lighter shade than BW is a good idea. C&S comes to mind. Do you have total light control? If so then a basic white may do as well.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I have used BW alread yand love it, but I went from a Planar with lower contrast and a little more light output to a Planar that has more contrast and less light output.
So I'm concerned it might be dim in all but dark-out conditions.
This is in my living room but I do have alot of light control via black out on my drapes and curtains and vaulted ceilings which helps with the light coming off the walls and screen, but I do like to keep a lamp on in the adjoining kitchen and all my walls are off-white which makes any light travel.

So it's more of a concern of too dim of an image(possibly even with no ambient light) than ambient light control.
I'm using Kilz2 presently on my new screen, but it just doesn't do it for me.

[Ayreonaut]

Hey, guys. My brother was asking me about alternatives to the Sony Dynaclear.

Black Widow can be made in darker shades, right? Can you point me to that instruction?

[mechman]

I've never seen a Dynaclear before so I'm unsure as to how dark you want to go. The original BW is a N7.5 on the Munsell scale. It's blacks are comparable to a N7.5 and the whites are comparable to a N8-8.5.

Hope this helps!

[Matt Davis]

Ayreonaut wrote:

Hey, guys. My brother was asking me about alternatives to the Sony Dynaclear.

Black Widow can be made in darker shades, right? Can you point me to that instruction?

I think the instructions are in this thread. I think you will find the 4:1 mix to be quite dark.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ack-widow.html

[mechman]

Black Widow's gain is .9. To be precise it is .87 but let's just round that up! Most of the commercial products I've measured have all come in .06-.14 low anyways. For example, DaLite's High power measured at 2.69 while it's published at 2.8. And Elite's CineWhite measured 1.04 while it's published as a 1.1 gain. The one that was .14 off was DaLite's Pearlescent - measured 1.36 published 1.5.

At 60 degrees the gain of BW was still measuring .85 and I'm certain it would be greater than 50% at 90 degrees off axis. Therefore it's safe to say it has a 180 degree viewing cone.

I'll have all of this data done up in some nice charts sometime after the holidays.

mech

[shankar]

It's after the holidays Mech.......

[mechman]

Well... we did a check. Then we did a double check. And finally we finished up a triple check.

Now it's just a matter of entering all the data into the spreadsheet and making the charts, etc. I wasn't counting on the double check and the triple check.

[Harpmaker]

shankar wrote:

It's after the holidays Mech.......

He didn't say what year.

[paints]

Hey! Great to see the usual suspects are running around in here.

I have great news and truely horrible news.

First the good!

The Black Widow screen (with Henry 558) was a smashing success and performed incredible since I rolled it on my wall sometime last March. In fact...I'll even credit Black Widow for helping pull in the National Championship for my beloved Jayhawks last year (I'm highly superstitious during the NCAA Tourney). The Widow paired with the Panny AX200U was a match made in heaven.

Then something very evil occured....

My wonderfull wife decided I needed to get all my old audio gear off the old tv (it does make a nice bench) and have shelves built around my screen. I'm thinking ok. I want to upgrade my 1880's phonograph reciever thats been pumping out Rock Chalk Jayhawk and Van Halen almost 15 years now. This will be great. I can agonize over what reciever to get and have it and a whole system put into the cabinets flanking my screen.

Soooo the cabinets are built and installed and looking good except...my screen isn't centered in between the two towers. Ok, no big deal. I'll repaint the wall the original milk chocolate color and paint another Widow over it. On Sunday I got home painted it the wall color and waited until tonight (tuesday) to mask off the screen and put the Kilnz primer on.

HOLY *%$#@!!!

When I rolled on the Kilnz. The paint curled and sucked back onto the roller. Left horrible trails. Globbed. Wouldn't smooth out and is a wreck!! Generally speaking I'm a happy go lucky guy who hasn't cried since Ol' Yeller and right now. I don't know which I should do. Put my fist through my computer or go Terms of Endearment.

I guess I either sand down the whole wall. Or find a smooth board that can be cut to 87" x 55" and pay somebody to spary on the Henry and mount a perfectly flat screen.

Any thoughts?

I'd take a picture. But every digital pic I've taken in that room tend to blur and justify to my wife again why I need a tripod.

Well...sorry for my spiel. I've had so much fun watching my projector over the last year that I haven't really kept up with all you mad screen painting geniuses. Maybe if I look around a bit. I'll find the brushless all ready to hang Black Widow screen in here.

[paints]

Annnd I may have found the problem. My sports room is in the basment. It's usually around 66 degrees in there. However I have a sub-basement which is located on the wall that my screen is on.

I uh..umm touched the wall and it is as cold as my sub-basement is. That must be why it went on so tacky.

So I probably solved my X-File. Now I just need to figure out how to fix it. Man...this is frustrating. I've got to find a board to fit my measurement and have it sprayed it on. ! My old screen did have a valley in it (nobody else ever saw it). At least I can get that one imperfection corrected if I can find a suitable board.

Oh no! I better get back to reading this whole thread. I think when I fell off the planet here. Somebody was checking to see if the Henry BW was sprayable. I better find out.

[Harpmaker]

Hi paints,

All BW mixes are sprayable. The Henry 558 has been supplanted by Auto Air Aluminum as the paint of choice to use for making BW, but if you have the better part of a gallon of Henry in storage I understand wanting to use it. We have found that Henry-based mixes drift away from being neutral in color over time.

The only sheet-good I know of that comes in your size would be a sheet of laminate in 5'x10'. If you can find a cheap sheet of laminate, you can spray it with BW.

Something you might be interested in is the Mega Screen thread here. A member (Quantum) has used a piece of vinyl flooring as a screen substrate! This is something that is very new and only one screen has been made of it, so we don't the full attributes yet; but it looks exciting.

[mechman]

Also, some home improvement store can special order a 5X10' sheet of mdf as well. The Menards near me stocks it in 1/2" last time I checked. Every place else would be a special order. Mdf is a lot heavier than a laminate but it should save you a few bucks.

[paints]

Well I sanded the wall down and put a fresh coat of Kilnz on. Flipped on the PJ and it appears to be the exact (albeit slightly imperfect) screen I had before. Watching the Jayhawks right now and all I can say is the whites are LOUD with the Kilnz. The colors look ok but I can't wait to put the Widow back up.

If I see all my imperfections terribly. I may just go the MDF route.

As for the 558 Henry. Heh...I got a ton of that gallon left and I thought it looked outstanding.

Thanks again for all the hard work around here guys. Black Widow is simply outstanding.

[mechman]

paints wrote:

Well I sanded the wall down and put a fresh coat of Kilnz on. Flipped on the PJ and it appears to be the exact (albeit slightly imperfect) screen I had before. Watching the Jayhawks right now and all I can say is the whites are LOUD with the Kilnz. The colors look ok but I can't wait to put the Widow back up.

If I see all my imperfections terribly. I may just go the MDF route.

As for the 558 Henry. Heh...I got a ton of that gallon left and I thought it looked outstanding.

Thanks again for all the hard work around here guys. Black Widow is simply outstanding.

Good to hear! If you have the Henry, you might as well use it.

[paints]

Yeech! I think it's safe to say i have officially ruined my wall. I missed my calling. I should be doing textured walls for a living. The BW still looks great. However scenes with light blue (oceans) show the textured spots plainly and if any text is in those spots. It looks grainy.

So I'll ride this out for a bit and then fetch a 5X10 smooth board and spray the Widow.

Any of you guys working on a new blend? I'll volunteer for a few tests if I can help. Although I'll haft to be settled before March Madness fires up and my fellow Jayhawks come flocking over.

[mechman]

shankar wrote:

It's after the holidays Mech.......

You can find all the gain readings here for now. I'm working on getting the final (third and fourth) set up and then I'm gonna do a thread. It'll either be this week or after the 7th.

[mechman]

paints wrote:

Any of you guys working on a new blend?

Not currently. Life catches up sometimes. Harp's waiting for spring. Custy's pj is on the fritz. Bill's sick. And I've got 3 kids and a huge international hockey tournament coming up. Every once in awhile, life gets in the way.

[biomed]

I apologize for bringing up a dormant thread. I found this thread while researching projector screens.

I have a few questions/clarifications regarding BW.

I anticipate purchasing the Sanyo PLV-Z700 or the PLV-Z3000.
I would be using a 92" screen size.
I also live in an apartment.

Since I live in an apartment, I can not make a screen that would be a permanent fixture on my wall.

What material would you recommend to use for the screen that is light enough to hang on the wall (with a frame around it)?

From what I've read here, these are what make the BW?

• 8oz of Auto-Air Colors 4100 Series (specifically 4101?)
• 30oz of Valspar Ultra Premium flat Enamel Base 1 using the tint formula:
  104-3.5
  107-2.5
  109-0.5
  (or PPG-Bermuda Beige 427-2 in the above base)
• Apply with either a low nap roller or spray gun.

Is the Kilz2 still recommended to prime a surface?
I think I remember in one of the posts someone mentioning pouring the paint or mixture through a strainer?

If this next question is blasphemous on this forum, please forgive me! Is there a low-cost equivalent pre-made screen to the Black Widow?

Any advice is appreciated

[mechman]

biomed wrote:

I apologize for bringing up a dormant thread. I found this thread while researching projector screens.

No apology necessary. This is where you ask these kind of questions.

biomed wrote:

What material would you recommend to use for the screen that is light enough to hang on the wall (with a frame around it)?

You could do several things. Build a frame out of aluminum (expensive) or wood and cover it with blackout cloth or a sheet of linoleum. It needs to be flat.

Another option would be using mdf. Wouldn't be as light as the other options though.

biomed wrote:

From what I've read here, these are what make the BW?

• 8oz of Auto-Air Colors 4100 Series (specifically 4101?)
• 30oz of Valspar Ultra Premium flat Enamel Base 1 using the tint formula:
  104-3.5
  107-2.5
  109-0.5
  (or PPG-Bermuda Beige 427-2 in the above base)
• Apply with either a low nap roller or spray gun.

32oz of Bermuda Beige tinted VUPE or a quart. No measuring needed!

biomed wrote:

Is the Kilz2 still recommended to prime a surface?
I think I remember in one of the posts someone mentioning pouring the paint or mixture through a strainer?

Primer is always recommended when painting a new surface. Strainer was only needed for the shelved HE-558 formula. Strainer no longer needed.

biomed wrote:

If this next question is blasphemous on this forum, please forgive me! Is there a low-cost equivalent pre-made screen to the Black Widow?

Any advice is appreciated

Well you could go and get an Elite Silver Frame with CineGrey material. It's about as bright as BW, but the blacks aren't as deep. And you'd better hurry if you want to do this! Elite is phasing out their CineGrey material. Take a look here. So you have to ask yourself, is my time and the cost of all the materials worth more than $300? Or are you one of the few, the proud, the diy'ers?

I know that had I seen these screens way back when, I probably wouldn't be here right now...

[dougri]

Keep an eye on craigslist as well... there was someone in my area wanting to sell his cinetension screen in cinegrey for $350 and was flexible on price... wrong size for me though, 106". Also, there appear to be some online sellers of the replacement fabric alone if you just want the fabric and can build the frame yourself... seems like a decent option if you don't like the silverframe (i.e. want the whole frame in black velvet).

[Harpmaker]

Welcome to the forum Biomed!

If you decide to go with a homemade BW screen, you should ask for a quart of Valspar Ultra Premium Enamel flat tinted to match PPG-Bermuda Beige #427-2 or use the tint formula you stated. It might be safer to go with the tint formula the store computer gives at the time of mixing since it can compensate when using another base type if the store is out of Base 1. The only difference in the Valspar base types is how much white paint is in the can; the higher the number the less paint is in the can to allow for more tint without over-filling.

Unlike other forums I have seen, we don't bash people for asking questions. Also, this forum is for both commercial and DIY screens so don't worry about wanting info on both types.