Black Widow PFG - the Discussion

**wbassett** · **01-19-08, 05:16 PM**

Black Widow PFG
What is Black Widow 'PFG'? It is a revolutionary way of making a screen the 'DIY' way.

First a very brief history of DIY painted screens and some of the more popular methods and mindsets:
For years the debate was White vs Gray. White is easy and the most forgiving. Of course the better balanced a white screen is the more accurate it will be, but unlike a gray screen White is more forgiving and can be off more and not be as noticeable as a gray screen that isn't a well balanced color. Still even with a white screen, the closer to D65 it is the more accurate it will be.

The same goes with gray screens, the closer they are to neutral the better and more accurate they are.
But what exactly constitutes a 'neutral'?

Good Question. There are many parameters but the main ones are the color balance (L*ab and xyY values), spectral curve, and color temperature.

For years many have tried to make the 'perfect' DIY screen. One that would perform with ambient lighting but also perform equally as well in a dark and dedicated environment.

One of the biggest problems and debates has been what exactly is gray? This has literally been debated for years and rather than explain it all over again the best thing is to refer to the neutral gray thread.

As good as a simple neutral gray is, there has always been a desire to improve upon things. The most popular way up until now has been by the use of mica (pearlescent) and poly coatings. The problem is mica by nature causes a color shift.

So how can we improve on a well balanced neutral gray without introducing color shifting that mica's and interference pigments are known to cause? By using non-interference pigments instead...

PFG stands for 'Pigment Free Gray'. Granted anything added to a white based paint to change the color is technically a pigment, this is a gray that is not created by use of the standard pigments used in paint shops or by other DIY methods. Hence the original name 'PFG', or Pigment Free Gray.

It was found that by adding aluminum based paint (which is a water based paint comprised primarily of aluminum and no other colorants) a gray was created. Aluminum is a very bright and universal element. It has been used over the years as a 'silver' substitute, and has even been used for making mirrors. Needless to say it is very bright and reflective.

That and the fact that it is a non-interference substance it was a very interesting element. The results were astounding.

First let's look at one of the most neutral Off The Self neutral grays made the conventional way with various colorant pigments.

This is about as neutral as it gets with pigment based colorants. Look at the values highlighted in green. The color balance, temperature, and spectral curve all are well within our desired specifications.

Now let's look at what happens to that same ideal neutral when an interference material such as mica is added.

Quite a change from the neutral balance seen before, and this was with just one coating.

Next up is one of the most well known and popular DIY advanced screen methods.

Again a major change from our well balanced neutral reference.

Black Widow PFG is up next... First a 4:1 mix ratio using Sherwin Williams Luminous White.

It isn't dead on neutral but is a very close near neutral. Look at the spectral curve though, it's still very flat!

Next is a 5:1 ratio mix using True Value's Winter Mist, the same as the very first data graphic shown...

So what exactly is Black Widow? It is a gray made using Henry Aluminum roof paint added in the proper ratio to a common base paint. You can't just use anything, it has to be a water based aluminum paint so we went with Henry 558. The original material was a plain water based aluminum paint, but unfortunately it was discontinued.

What are the benefits? Well as the Spider says-

Better Blacks
Bolder Colors
Whiter Whites
Excellent performance with both ambient light and lights out dedicated setups
A brighter and more vibrant image without the color shifting problems caused by iridescence.
Sharper image quality and shadow detail

That's some pretty bold claims... seeing is believing though.

The center of the screen are the two original PFG test panels in a 3:1 and 4:1 ratio. To the left is a known performer, Sherwin Williams Gray Screen, and to the right is a generic general run of the mill N8.5 shade of gray.

SW Gray Screen was one of the Kings of Off The Shelf (OTS) grays that provided deep blacks, excellent color reproduction and very white whites. It's no contest between the two.

So PFG wins with blacks but what about color? Another good question...

Color reproduction is just as accurate but has a more vivid look to them. Here we can see that there is no discernible difference in color reproduction between PFG and a known performer. What the camera can't show is the depth and detail is much greater in the PFG screen.

The secret is the aluminum, but the key is not only the lack of color shifting that iridescence cause, but how uniform the aluminum is.

To the left is a PFG sample, to the right is a mica based application. The aluminum has a much denser and more uniform coverage as compared to the larger mica flakes. It's also very easy to see reds, blues, yellows, orange and other colors throughout the mica. That is a perfect example of uniformity and lack of color shifting.

What is really amazing is this is a darker screen but doesn't look dull or muddy like most dark grays look. The aluminum is the performance difference.

Lights out...

Lights on...

It was these tests that led to the current application that we are now ready to present... Black Widow PFG!

The next logical question is how do you make it and how do you apply it.

Making it is very simple. For a 4:1 ratio that's mixed with Luminous White take 8 ounces of Henry 558 and add it to a quart of Sherwin Williams Luminous White, stir and apply. That will make 40 ounces of Black Widow PFG LW4:1. For the 5:1 ratio we used Winter Mist for the base. Add 4 ounces of Henry 558 to 20 ounces of Winter Mist. That's less than a quart but enough to paint the average size screen. The reason I went less was because for a 5:1 made using 8 ounces of HE558 you'd need more than a quart of paint (40 ounces to be exact) and a quart is only 32 ounces... make sense?

For a little more though you can get a full gallon of Winter Mist, so making the 5:1 ratio would be like this, add 8 ounces of HE558 to 40 ounces of Winter Mist... guaranteed to be more than enough to paint just about any size screen.

Note: There is no different in the above two Winter Mist HE558 5:1 methods, the ratio is still the same so performance is the same... You only have 32 ounces in a quart to work with and we're trying to keep this as easy as possible. You 'could' use the full 32 ounces and add 6.4 ounces of HE558, but I personally don't have a 6.4 ounce measuring cup and I really doubt most people do either.

Right now Sherwin Williams Luminous White and True Value Winter Mist are the only recommended base paints. We have tested a wide variety of paints to use as a base and none of them come close to meeting our specs as these two do. When we identify more they will be listed but that will not be a 'change' to the way to make Black Widow, just open up more options for people to use to get the same performance but with other paint brands.

How is Black Widow PFG applied? It's just like painting a wall. No special rollers or rolling techniques are needed. Just a good quality low nap roller. Prime the surface with a good primer, my primer of choice is Kilz2, but any good quality white primer will work. Mix up your Black Widow, and roll it on... it really is that easy. Stay away from foam rollers though. They sometimes cause bubbles to form and when the bubbles pop a bright spot is formed. If you see a bubble, don't panic, just roll it out and move on.


		It is highly recommended to strain the HE558 before mixing. Use an ordinary straining bag that can be found at any paint store. I like the bags over the cones, they are easier to use and less mess.

Coming up next are some actual Black Widow shots and even a first hand account of making a full size screen and how it performs.

We are also working on making this even easier, but the concept and performance won't be changed at all. The only down side is HE558 may not be in your local store but ask the stores that carry Henry products, ACE said they could get it and other stores may be willing to order it as well.

Where to purchase

The place where muzz and I purchased our gallons was here.

Ace Hardware is supposed to be able to order it as well. Although Harpmaker's Ace said he would have to buy 4 gallons.

If you live in a warmer climate, it may actually be stocked on the shelves of Home Depot, Lowe's etc.

We'll add to this list as we hear of more places.

mech

**Prof.** · **01-19-08, 05:47 PM**

Very interesting and very informative Bill...
This certainly appeals to me more than a straight grey screen..
But before I get too excited, none of the products you mentioned are available down here..

I will be most interested to see what you are able to find as alternative paints..

Would it not be possible to just add aluminium powder to a brilliant white base paint, to match what you have with your "Black Widow"?

**wbassett** · **01-19-08, 06:04 PM**

Prof that is actually being worked on too. One of the problems with powders is they aren't typically a local item either, and then there is working out exactly how much equates to the same 8 ounces of HE558 or the previous PFG component. Needless to say 8 ounces of powder isn't the same as 8 ounces of a premade compound.

Plus I think it is very important to state that with the wrong type of aluminum powder, when added to water it can cause a very nasty reaction. So no, at this point in time we don't have any powders ready to be recommended. We're still testing in that area.

Performance and balance wise when we're done with that testing it will be the same and if we can make this even easier that's the goal.

A lot of people wanted to hear something substantial and we finally have some tested ways that we are recommending. Another reason for not just waiting for a powder based version is people started buying aluminum paint and I know some were getting solvent based and not water based. That's not going to mix or apply well with a water based latex so rather than people having a bad experience and walking away disgusted it was time to give the details along with our recommendations of what we found to work the best.

**Prof.** · **01-19-08, 06:55 PM**

Looks like I'll have to wait for some alternatives then..
Where I'm living now (Southern country) there isn't much in the way of paint stores or paint brands, so I can't do any experimenting myself to find any suitable alternatives..

**Sonnie** · **01-19-08, 09:01 PM**

Congratulations!

I'm impressed that you guys can come up with a mix that is unique and this good. I look forward to giving it a go.

Prof... can someone not ship you a quart/pint of the HE558?

**Prof.** · **01-19-08, 09:51 PM**

From what I've been told, there are heavy restrictions on importing any type of liquid into Australia..and requires a certificate to do so..and usually is only available to bulk importers..

I think I might have to make some direct enquiries myself...just to make sure..

**mechman** · **01-19-08, 10:20 PM**

Prof.,

I am working on situations such as yours and hope to have something soon!

I'm close but I don't want to say 'next week' or something like that cause I can never seem to meet deadlines I set for myself.

mech

**Prof.** · **01-19-08, 10:31 PM**

Thanks Mech...Certainly don't rush it on my part..I'm still a long way off from making another screen at this time..
I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with..

**<^..^>Smokey Joe** · **01-19-08, 11:09 PM**

Don't panic Prof, I have been experimenting with Resene products which is avaliable in Aus aswell.
I have been working on the resene range experimenting with filtering and was about to return to some developement work.(Home redecorating the house has held up hobbies).
They have an aluminium paint in their range, but I haven't been overly happy with the spectrums of the straight whites. Think I even have an old testpot of ali in the garage.

I can do a spectrum reading with my gear. I'll keep ya posted.

regards

**Prof.** · **01-19-08, 11:24 PM**

Thanks Smokey Joe, but unfortunately Resene products are not available in SA..
I've already had the occasion to look for them when I was after their clear matt acrylic for the top coat on my Melamine screen..And they won't ship one can..

I may have to do my own experimenting on the aluminium side if nothing else comes up..

Edit..I take it that you were happy with the alum you have..just not the white paint..

**muzz** · **01-20-08, 12:38 AM**

Well......

I have this screen in action, have been for that last few days.

I think it's fabulous myself.

I could NOT find the Henry 558 locally, even though I went to their website and found local distributors, maybe you guys will have better luck, but I ordered it online after MANY hours of frustration....

It was pathetic.....

I have personally taken more pics than I care to mention, getting a really good screen shot(REAL, LIKE WHAT YOU REALLY SEE), is a nightmare in itself, ESPECIALLY on LIGHT backgrounds.....
Reason?

White Balance

White balance can take up a whole LARGE thread in itself, and be MANY pages in itself..

Alot of views will be LESS affected by this than others, but some shots are SEVERELY affected,I'm trying, and I have 2 cameras here......
Facts are this,
LARGE white areas look a bit bluish, I MUST get a Whibal, and even then it'll change per shot.
Like I said, WB is a big deal in regards to NON DOCTORED SHOTS.
ALL of the shots you see, are NOT doctored AT ALL, not touch-ups, etc.... is what it is (hopefuly!!).

There IS software available to correct WB on shots.... I think thats a VERY debateable subject,, but I know that it's WIDELY accepted for corporate,and sometimes HT shots..
I have NOT retouched any of my pics, although I could for the WB issue....
I just feel it's a bit weak, and REFUSE to do that. hence the problems I have stated..

Whatever.....

My Projector is a Panasonic AX100U, with over 1900 hours on it, so I USUALLY use he "NORMAL" setting, I think it's the 3rd from brightest, the pics shown are using that setting.

I don't lie, what you see is a FAIR, but NOT perfect rendition of what I see here, any questions LMK.

Pics to come...

**muzz** · **01-20-08, 12:53 AM**

Some pics....

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/muzz1/

**mechman** · **01-20-08, 01:05 AM**

I'd like to start out this post by saying that I've looked at and reviewed a lot of panels and paint mixes since coming on board here at the Shack, and this one is the best diy screen paint for ambient light viewing that I know of! There is another that I know of but benven hasn't released his formula yet for comparisons.

Shopping

What you're looking for is this:

And this is what it looks like when opened:

Application Notes

Some application notes that I'd like to add are that spraying is currently under review. Harpmaker agreed to beta test spraying for us and is still working on it.

As for the nap of the roller I'd keep it 1/4" or less. I used foam rollers on my original test panels and had bubbles form to which Bill has alluded to the problems this can create. So stick with the 1/4" or less nap roller. I haven't had any trouble with panels created with these. Nor has our other beta tester, muzz, who has already replaced his screen with Black Widow!

Another item I'd like to caution folks about is handling the screen after it has dried. Care should be taken as we have seen some smudging. At this time it appears to be worse on screens that are sprayed. I had to create quite a bit of friction with my finger to create a smudge on my rolled screens. We're currently investigating a good topcoat that won't yellow over time and won't decrease the performance of the screen. I'm hoping to continue work on it this week. As of right now the Behr 780 matte polyurethane seems to work fine. However it has been known to yellow over time. I'm currently investigating proportions of Valspar Clear Coat Protectors in the flat and satin finishes to figure out which will work best. They introduce virtually no color shifting.

Musings

So I'm sure folks will wonder why 4:1 and 5:1? Why not 3:1? Well the 3:1's produced a very grainy picture and what appeared to be roller marks on the panel. While I'm not a painter by trade, I can assure you there aren't any roller marks. I believe it's just from higher concentration of aluminum. I've done some work on these and have gotten them straightened out. When it's finalized I'll add it to the top post and to the thread.

mech

**wbassett** · **01-20-08, 01:15 AM**

I also want to reiterate that I can't smudge my panels without applying an abnormal amount of pressure and friction, so much that it would damage any screen except for a laminate screen. Rolling doesn't seem to be a problem and I just wanted to add that so people didn't think this was a problem even with a rolled screen.

Keep in mind any painted screen can be damaged with excessive scrubbing or abrasive cleaners. The only virtually indestructible screen that I know of and have personally tested (and I really mean I abused it! From freezing to soaking in water for days...) is laminate.

I will be spraying a screen very soon on the new light weight screen I am working on so we will get this working as a sprayed option.

**mechman** · **01-20-08, 01:21 AM**

A couple more spectral reflectance curves:

This one is of all three plotted in one chart

And then the original HE558 spectral curve

Also a big hearty

to Smokey Joe for helping me with all this!

mech

**wbassett** · **01-20-08, 04:40 AM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

I'd like to start out this post by saying that I've looked at and reviewed a lot of panels and paint mixes since coming on board here at the Shack, and this one is the best diy screen paint for ambient light viewing that I know of!

Thing is, it works well in a dedicated setup too.

As I mentioned, aluminum has been used for many things, even mirrors, so it adds a highly reflective property without the color shifting we see with pearls and iridescence. We can make a darker gray that makes blacks look better but the highly reflective and uniform properties of aluminum let it remain a bright screen and able to produce whites and vivid colors that are typically reserved for much lighter shade screens. Blacks and brightness aside, it gives better detail and image sharpness as well as more depth.

I know I showed this screen shot before, but take a look at it again and look at the reds and orange's closer... they really come to life and have a vibrance and depth I haven't seen on any other DIY screen including the laminates I have tested.

I've used/tested a variety of painted and laminate screens and I will be replacing my own personal screen with one of these.

As part of that I will be documenting a screen build from the ground up. This screen will be just as unique and revolutionary as the Black Widow PFG paint that will be going on it. Right now the prototype is light enough that I can literally lift it (53"x93") with my pinkie. I am adding cross bracing to stiffen the frame up more and that will add some weight, so after adding the supports I'd say I probably will have to use my index finger instead of my pinkie

In other words we're moving from the days of big heavy 60lb DIY screens and frames down to less than 20lbs, something Grzboken himself would be proud of

So look for that to be coming in the next few weeks... the prototype worked, so now it's time to build the real McCoy.

**mechman** · **01-20-08, 01:27 PM**

Where to purchase

The place where muzz and I purchased our gallons was here.

Ace Hardware is supposed to be able to order it as well. Although Harpmaker's Ace said he would have to buy 4 gallons.

If you live in a warmer climate, it may actually be stocked on the shelves of Home Depot, Lowe's etc.

We'll add to this list as we hear of more places.

mech

**mechman** · **01-20-08, 04:17 PM**

I'll probably add to this a gazillion times over time!

But another thing I want to add is that I never tried Winter Mist 4:1 or 6:1 ratios as all I had was less than a quart of Winter Mist and my True Value is a pain to get to. So I guess what I'm saying is that it would more than likely work. If you're willing to test it out let us know as I'd like samples to spectro!

Another thing to note, and reason why I haven't tried it, is that the Lowe's in my neck of the woods are unable to match True Value Winter Mist. It's not in their system. It's in other Lowe's systems across the hemisphere. Just not mine.

I do have the formula for it and intend to pick some up once I find out the base to use for the formula given to me.

mech

**muzz** · **01-20-08, 05:12 PM**

I think this screen does a good job with ambient lighting, here are a couple of shots..

Without light:
http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u...t=IMG_1516.jpg

With 75 watt table lamp to the left of the camera- easy reading light:

http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u...t=IMG_1517.jpg

This pic isn't too bad for a 1900 hr bulb:

This screen smokes my old Pebble Beach/2 x PTC

http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u...t=IMG_1331.jpg

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