Best Mix/Screen for an Infocus 7210

**bidzer** · **02-06-08, 07:06 PM**

Hey all,

I've upgraded from an Infocus SP-4805 to an Infocus SP-7210. I currently have a 96" polywall sceen painted with Behr Silverscreen. It definately helped with my 4805 but I want something better. I don't think the Silverscreen is helping me out at all with the new PJ. I know I can get a better picture. Would the Designer White Laminate work well? I've been contemplating painting the polywall with the Black Widow PFG.

My theater is in the basement which is completely light controlled. The room dimensions are 28Lx15W
The picture looks good I just know it can get better. Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

**mechman** · **02-06-08, 08:36 PM**

For a light controlled room it gets no better than Designer White Laminate!

mech

**cynical2** · **02-07-08, 02:37 AM**

Bidzer, where do you live? Not Virginia/Maryland/DC by chance? If so, use Reico...88 cents/ sq ft for DW.

**wbassett** · **02-07-08, 09:45 AM**

Okay I did some looking at things. First the review of your projector on ProjectorCentral

Next was to check Silver Screen and see what is comparable.

I looked at my samples and the High Contrast Cinema Vision doesn't really jump out as having a shiny, shimmery or outlandish optical coating. It is a matte surface which is a slightly higher sheen than flat, which I am assuming that's what your Silver Screen is.

Okay so with that said, I doubt going to a matte finish is going to solve your problem. It sounds to me like you aren't an N8 kind of person.

You have total light control, very good projector...

Quote:

Projector Central Review wrote:

...
Color temperature adjustment is limited to three presets (6500K, 7500K, and 9300K). These presets are remarkably close to spot-on accurate.

...

Contrast on the Screenplay 7210 is excellent, making even the darkest scenes easy on the eyes. Shadow details pop. However, blacks are not as solid as they can be with the DarkChip3. We would have preferred a bit deeper black level.

I know the mantra some have is 'Only white with total light control', and that is a good rule of thumb but nothing steadfast. I would say you'd be very happy with Designer White, except for the comment in the review about blacks. You never know though, they may surprise you and look perfectly fine.

So here is my recommendation before you go crazy on anything, and please try this before going straight for the pearls as a solution. Not that you said you were planning on it, but we have an interesting situation here, new projector- old screen... back to my recommendation-

Your old screen was fine for your old projector. You got a new projector though. I am sure you went through and calibrated it, but what is my mantra? Baseline! Right now unless you've calibrated on a unity gain white screen, you have no sense of reference for the 7210. It's obvious you don't like an N8 shade of gray with it. You said you can paint your polywall, so prime it with Kilz2 and run through a calibration to get a baseline and look at the projector's performance with a variety of content... I'm sure you know my drill by now. From here you can decide what way you want to go. After you do this, then you can tell if you improved things or not. Without a baseline, you have no idea if you improved anything or not.

Basic/Easy- use Winter Mist. It's a lighter gray so the image will 'pop' more than with a darker gray but the slight gray shade will help with those black levels.

Advanced/Still Easy- Use the same base, Winter Mist. Add 4 ounces of Henry 558 to 20 ounces of Winter Mist. That's less than a quart but enough to paint the average size screen.

Alternative Black Widow option- 8oz of Createx Auto Air Aluminum (fine) to a quart of Essential Gray for a 4:1 mix. Note: This is still in the beta stage, but getting ready to move to the BW thread as an alternate 4:1 option.

Another option is CGIV and the details for that are here. My only concern would be the 1.8 gain it was tested as having. You have an extremely bright projector as is and don't need any gain to bring the brightness up. Hot spotting could also come into play, but benven's mix was well thought out so it might not be an issue. Although even with a commercial screen I'd be cautious about going that high in gain too- so this is nothing against CGIV at all. Talk to ben though if you are interested in that route, he can answer questions on CG better than anyone. It is right up your alley though as far as the shade, its a very nicely balanced N9 range of gray and would give you some more 'pop' than just a coat of flat Winter Mist.

So there's some food for thought, but get a baseline calibration on a white screen before you do anything. Since you're planning on repainting, you'll have to prime your substrate anyway so this really isn't an out of the way step.

While you're baselining, read through the various options I mentioned and make up your mind after seeing the 7210 perform on a white reference.

**bidzer** · **02-07-08, 11:03 AM**

Bill,

This is a truly amazing response. Thanks for all the leg work on the data gathering. I'm going to grab some Kilz2 and get moving. I rolled the polywall on the floor the first time. Do you think I can roll it while it's tacked up on the wall? It will be easier for me with 2 young kids around

I don't want to get any runs. I think I used a 1/4" nap roller before. Any recommendations?

I don't mind watching the Kilz2 for a while until the Black Widow is perfected a little more. This will also allow me to search for a bigger piece of laminate. I'm thinking a 5x10 piece.

**bidzer** · **02-07-08, 11:04 AM**

Quote:

cynical2 wrote:

Bidzer, where do you live? Not Virginia/Maryland/DC by chance? If so, use Reico...88 cents/ sq ft for DW.

No, I'm in the Boston area. I'm taking Reico is a local product to those areas? Is wilson art the best?

**wbassett** · **02-07-08, 11:53 AM**

Quote:

bidzer wrote:

Bill,

This is a truly amazing response. Thanks for all the leg work on the data gathering. I'm going to grab some Kilz2 and get moving. I rolled the polywall on the floor the first time. Do you think I can roll it while it's tacked up on the wall? It will be easier for me with 2 young kids around

I don't want to get any runs. I think I used a 1/4" nap roller before. Any recommendations?

I don't mind watching the Kilz2 for a while until the Black Widow is perfected a little more. This will also allow me to search for a bigger piece of laminate. I'm thinking a 5x10 piece.

I rolled my current screen in place on the wall- had no choice, it's a liner paper screen that's part of the wall!

If you can find a 3/16th nap roller that will give the smoothest finish. You can also add a little water to the Kilz2 to thin it down some, but I've never had a problem with roller marks. Take your time and if you see a roller mark just go back and blend it in and you should be fine.

As far as laminates, besides Home Depot and Lowes there is

Wilsonart International, Inc.
29 Concord Street
North Reading , MA 01864
978-664-2487

A 5x10 sheet through them is $111 plus tax. ($2.22 a square foot). That's a bit dicy in my opinion. The good news is, they usually carry it in stock so there is no waiting, go in, buy it and take it home the same day. They did say though that they are currently out of stock but will be getting a new shipment in two days.

Lowes wasn't any better or worse,
Lowes
LOWE'S OF WEYMOUTH, MA, #1618
729 BRIDGE STREET
WEYMOUTH, MA 02191

$110 plus tax.
ten day lead time

To give you an example of what I am saying about shopping around, that's the same prices my local Lowes and Home Depot quote me here in NY. I went to a local lumber/home improvement store called Curtis Lumber and a 5x10 sheet from them is $73.57

So it's definitely worth shopping around. If the price goes up any higher than that, I'd have to say it's too much and either go with DIY Theatre's White Platinum light contrast, or pick another DIY method. It really is crazy the wide variance in Wilsonart prices from region to region and even store to store in some cases.

Just so you know, Black Widow does have a finalized solution right now, which is the HE558 method. We are working on other brands of aluminum, not as a replacement but as other options and alternatives. Either way though it is going to be an on line order type of item, unless you are lucky and happen to have either HE558 or Creatix Auto Air paints available in your area.

**bidzer** · **02-07-08, 12:10 PM**

I'll grab the 1/16th nap on the way home. I have a bottle of floetrol that I orignally used to thin down the Silvewrscreen. That worked well.

The $111 is a little too much for me right now to drop on the laminate. If I'm going to paint the laminate I'm guessing it doesn't have to be Wilson art correct?

Also, I've been trying to find the HE558 around here without any success. True value thought they could order it as it was in their system but later on said no. Home depot only carries HE555 locally. A gallon can be had online for $30 including shipping, good deal.

**wbassett** · **02-07-08, 12:40 PM**

I personally wouldn't buy laminate just to paint. It's way too expensive for just a substrate that's going to be painted. I understand where you're coming from though, finding sheets larger than 4x8 can be next to impossible in some areas.

You can try checking some stores that make signs and billboards, they usually have plastic sheets in larger sizes than 4x8. Other than that... is there any reason you can't just paint the wall itself if you want a screen larger than what you can get from a 4x8 sheet?

IF, you can't find anything, check with Lowes and Home Depot and look at their general purpose generic laminate. It's usually at least half the price of Formica and Wilsonart and they usually have some sheets in stock, but not 5x10 sheets. With Home Depot and Lowes, the minute you order a non-standard size sheet, they like to tack on a $20-25 processing fee, which again starts shooting the price up.

I know I'm not sounding too positive right now and helping your cause! Sorry about that.

**mechman** · **02-07-08, 09:25 PM**

Quote:

bidzer wrote:

A gallon can be had online for $30 including shipping, good deal.

I bet you could find more than few folks that would chip in and pay shipping etc. on the leftovers!

mech

**bidzer** · **02-08-08, 07:08 AM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

I personally wouldn't buy laminate just to paint. It's way too expensive for just a substrate that's going to be painted. I understand where you're coming from though, finding sheets larger than 4x8 can be next to impossible in some areas.

You can try checking some stores that make signs and billboards, they usually have plastic sheets in larger sizes than 4x8. Other than that... is there any reason you can't just paint the wall itself if you want a screen larger than what you can get from a 4x8 sheet?

IF, you can't find anything, check with Lowes and Home Depot and look at their general purpose generic laminate. It's usually at least half the price of Formica and Wilsonart and they usually have some sheets in stock, but not 5x10 sheets. With Home Depot and Lowes, the minute you order a non-standard size sheet, they like to tack on a $20-25 processing fee, which again starts shooting the price up.

I know I'm not sounding too positive right now and helping your cause! Sorry about that.

If I go the laminate route I won't paint it. I'll poly it instead. I'm going to grab some Kilz2 today and get cranking. I haven't had much time lately (stupid work), LOL

I'll go with the Kilz2 for a bit. Then later on go for the BW-PFG. Is the Kilz2 tolerable for viewing for long periods of time? The pics of BW-PFG look awesome along with Mech's FG laminate.

TGIF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**bidzer** · **02-08-08, 07:11 AM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

I bet you could find more than few folks that would chip in and pay shipping etc. on the leftovers!

mech

I actually wouldn't mind having a gallon as I may try to paint more than one screen. Also, we'll probably be moving in a year or two and I'll need some for the new theater room. I've been searching like crazy for some other aluminum coat around here and have found the silver dollar brand. I thought I saw a non-fibered brand at the true value but my eyes may have been playing tricks on me.

Mech, how big is you laminate? Looks bigger then 4x8 in the pics.

Thanks

**mechman** · **02-08-08, 01:49 PM**

Quote:

bidzer wrote:

I actually wouldn't mind having a gallon as I may try to paint more than one screen. Also, we'll probably be moving in a year or two and I'll need some for the new theater room. I've been searching like crazy for some other aluminum coat around here and have found the silver dollar brand. I thought I saw a non-fibered brand at the true value but my eyes may have been playing tricks on me.

Mech, how big is you laminate? Looks bigger then 4x8 in the pics.

Thanks

It was a 5X10' sheet. My screen ended up being 100" though - 4 feet tall by 7 feet 2 inches wide.

As for the aluminum, we searched for quite some time until we finally settled on the online option. If you're patient, I may have something worked out with the Auto Air Aluminum soon! Then you can buy 4oz bottles and it's available online at a lot of different places.

mech

**bidzer** · **02-08-08, 04:07 PM**

Quote:

mechman wrote:

It was a 5X10' sheet. My screen ended up being 100" though - 4 feet tall by 7 feet 2 inches wide.

As for the aluminum, we searched for quite some time until we finally settled on the online option. If you're patient, I may have something worked out with the Auto Air Aluminum soon! Then you can buy 4oz bottles and it's available online at a lot of different places.

mech

I've got a 96" diagonal and would like to go bigger but the polywall won't allow for this. Plus my frame is already built for the 96". I just picked up a gallon of Kilz2 today and will be applying this over my Behr Silvercreen tonight to get a baseline as Bill said earlier. Should I go with 1 or 2 coats? The lowest nap I could find @ lowes was 3/16. Looks fine. I have a bottle of floetrol that I used with the Silverscreen. Should I use it with the Kilz to thin it out? I don't want to introdue any additives if not needed. I'm not sure what it will do to the Kilz. I layed the polywall on the floor last time to paint it to stop any running. I really don't want to have to take it down off the wall. Do you paint your material while upright?

I don't mind waiting for the next batch of BW to be done, I'm patient. The 360 can keep me busy in the meantime. I'm going to hook it up tonight to the SP-7210 for the first time to see how it looks after the primer is dry. I also want to send the 7210 a 480i signal over component to see how the Farouda truelife scales the pic. Awesome work BTW on the Black Widow. Without guys like you and the rest of the team, we'd all buying screens for an absurd amount of moolah.

Cheers,
Brian

**mechman** · **02-08-08, 04:25 PM**

Quote:

bidzer wrote:

Should I go with 1 or 2 coats? The lowest nap I could find @ lowes was 3/16. Looks fine. I have a bottle of floetrol that I used with the Silverscreen. Should I use it with the Kilz to thin it out? I don't want to introdue any additives if not needed. I'm not sure what it will do to the Kilz. I layed the polywall on the floor last time to paint it to stop any running. I really don't want to have to take it down off the wall. Do you paint your material while upright?

I'd do two coats. 3/16" is great! Throw the floetrol! I actually had better results rolling poly on my FG with it up on the wall.

mech

**bidzer** · **02-08-08, 05:48 PM**

Should I thin the Kilz2 at all? If so, how much?

**mechman** · **02-08-08, 06:50 PM**

I never had to. But I was just priming!

If you do, use water and no more than 20% of the total. Try to keep it around 10% if you can.

mech

**bidzer** · **02-08-08, 07:27 PM**

And so it begins, starting the first coat now. I'm going mix in 1.5oz water to 16oz of Kilz2. I want to have this dried so I can watch the Celts-Minn game in HD.

**bidzer** · **02-09-08, 09:44 AM**

Bill/Mech,

I've got the Kilz2 coat done. Setting up the PJ now. I'm using the Xbox360 as reference material as I have some 720p content on there. Picture isn't bad, but not great by any means. I think I have it calbrated as best as I can. They say to configure the RGB gains and offsets to certain values and that will give you the most natural colors. I don't see any other way to affect the color settings at all over the DVI/M1 interface other than those gains and offsets. Very happy with the blacks and skintones.

Remember last night when I said I had paitence for the BW? Well, that's changed :-) I want to go for it now, but it will take some time to procure the materials. What's the best base to use with the Henrys?

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