Moderator Duties in the DIY forum

[mechman]

Is everyone OK with Bill, Jim and myself doing research, posting actual data regarding DIY mixes, reviewing DIY mixes, and generally helping folks get their projection screens to be the best it can possibly be?

Confused folks think not. What do you think? Please post your views after voting. Are we helping? Are we hindering? Do each and every one of you want to go out and buy a spectrophotometer and become a screen paint, laminate, commercial screen genius? I like to keep things in the open! Post your thoughts!


FYI - we are bound by our moderator duties to do this and will continue (I have no intention of ever stopping ), it's just that a member elsewhere has questioned our approach.

mech

[lcaillo]

...and the problem is what, exactly? I think you guys are doing an incredible job.

[Mike P.]

lcaillo wrote:

...and the problem is what, exactly? I think you guys are doing an incredible job.

I agree. Your contributions are unquestionable in my opinion. I always look forward to see what you're doing next.

[muzz]

I don't see the problem, your not a commercial reseller or anything like that.
This is all DIY, or reviews of commercial screens.
You, Bill, and Jim have ZERO to gain, so there is abolutely ZERO conflict of interest.

I know what you speak of, and the conditions are in no way, shape, or form even remotely close to what happens elsewhere. < Thats a PERIOD!

Anyone that says otherwise, is either blind, or a pathetic troublemaker.

Please gentlemen, do carry on......

[Harpmaker]

mechman wrote:

Is everyone OK with Bill, Jim and myself doing research, posting actual data regarding DIY mixes, reviewing DIY mixes, and generally helping folks get their projection screens to be the best it can possibly be?

A-OK!

Confused folks think not.

DIY screens can be very confusing, primarily because there are so many options open and many ways to solve a particular problem.

Perhaps you should have a Sticky "DIY Screens for Dummies" thread that simply states "If you do not have the time or patience to read through the information on this forum, and want a simple quick solution for a DIY screen; just paint your wall with a flat white paint. When you have the time or patience to make a better screen, come on back. The door is open."

Are we helping? Are we hindering?

It depends. You (meaning the collective you) are helping those that want to know more about how projector screens work, and want the best screen they can make. You could be seen as hindering those that want a simple answer to the difficult question "What screen should I use". It's kind of like photography; most people don't want to know what the camera's shutter speed is, or what aperture is used, or what the film speed is; they just what to grab the camera, push the shutter button and take a picture. These people also don't seem to mind when the photos come back from the lab (remember those days?) with just about every print being off-color, too light or too dark. As long as they can identify Uncle Henry and Aunt Midge, or their beloved pet doing something silly, they are happy.

Do each and every one of you want to go out and buy a spectrophotometer and become a screen paint, laminate, commercial screen genius?

Hey! I resemble that remark!

I knew from the beginning that DIY screens would become a hobby. I have a terminal case of "What If" and will always be looking for something better, or at least trying to get a better understanding of how all this stuff works.

I got my own spectro for two reasons. 1. I hate pestering you with bunches of samples to test for me 2. I can't take the waiting for results

it's just that a member elsewhere has questioned our approach.

mech

You can't make all the people happy all the time.

[wbassett]

Harpmaker wrote:

A-OK!


DIY screens can be very confusing, primarily because there are so many options open and many ways to solve a particular problem.

Perhaps you should have a Sticky "DIY Screens for Dummies" thread that simply states "If you do not have the time or patience to read through the information on this forum, and want a simple quick solution for a DIY screen; just paint your wall with a flat white paint. When you have the time or patience to make a better screen, come on back. The door is open."


There is a sticky for definitions, terminology and a list of all the various DIY methods, but I don't think it states what you pointed out. That is a good suggestion and an update will be added.


It depends. You (meaning the collective you) are helping those that want to know more about how projector screens work, and want the best screen they can make. You could be seen as hindering those that want a simple answer to the difficult question "What screen should I use". It's kind of like photography; most people don't want to know what the camera's shutter speed is, or what aperture is used, or what the film speed is; they just what to grab the camera, push the shutter button and take a picture. These people also don't seem to mind when the photos come back from the lab (remember those days?) with just about every print being off-color, too light or too dark. As long as they can identify Uncle Henry and Aunt Midge, or their beloved pet doing something silly, they are happy.

Actually when it comes down to a person actually asking for help, I rarely go techno on them with tons of data, I mostly find out what their viewing setting is, projector make and model, and what their typical viewing preference is (lights off and total light control, some lights, or lots of lighting) and then recommend a gray rating and suggest they look at the various options in those ranges. I'd rather a person read through the options, ask some questions, and then make an informed decision on their own. If they insist and just want to be told a recommendation, then I'll give them a couple definite options. We also do not limit those options just to DIY. There are times when the person's preferences and skills are such that they aren't interested in DIY and we freely recommend commercial options as well. It all depends on the person and situation.

The data and testing is there to back things up for those that want to see why one thing was chosen over something else. I agree with your analogy of using a camera, but I will say even though people don't always understand (or sometimes even care to) shutter speeds and the more technical side of cameras, when they buy one they usually do look at a few specs and narrow their choices down. Same goes with screens, DIY or commercial.


Hey! I resemble that remark!

I knew from the beginning that DIY screens would become a hobby. I have a terminal case of "What If" and will always be looking for something better, or at least trying to get a better understanding of how all this stuff works.

You have the bug! Most people though just want a screen and that's it.

I got my own spectro for two reasons. 1. I hate pestering you with bunches of samples to test for me 2. I can't take the waiting for results



You can't make all the people happy all the time.

Definitely can't make everyone happy, and that goes for any topic.

The comment/issue that keeps coming up though is that all presentations should be done by members only and moderators are to moderate only. I disagree with that as does Sonnie. We're here to help and interact. Some forums do have a hands off policy, but HTS doesn't.

One question I posed was if something is discovered that is a next step in anything, DIY Screens, DIY Subs... should it not get presented and become buried just because it was a moderator that discovered and developed it? Also the question arises what if information is presented as fact when it is not, again no interaction or an explanation as to why something isn't right and what is a more accurate explanation? If we go with that mindset a lot of things would be lost in the shuffle, confusion, speculations, and hype.

We're pretty much done with the foundation and a lot of the technical threads will be trimmed and consolidated down. If a person is interested in why something works, instead of rehashing it all over again, we now are giving a brief explanation and then linking them to the more detailed thread.

The comments received were meant more that a draconian type atmosphere is created, but I am not sure I fully understand the reasoning about why moderators shouldn't present information.

My opinion is this thread should do what Jim Phelps briefing tapes do, and self destruct and get on with the more meaningful side of things.

[lcaillo]

I agree. What we have works. Fine tune it but there is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater just to be like some other forum. We are different for good reasons.

[Harpmaker]

Having Moderators that don't participate in the subject being moderated doesn't really make much sense to me. I think I understand it theoretically, but such Moderators could only put out flames and such, they wouldn't really know what was going on since they wouldn't know the subject. It's a Catch 22 kinda thing.

I moderate and help administer several forums, but they are all things I care about and know something about.

It ain't a perfect world...

[lcaillo]

I guess it depends on whether you want police or leaders. Moderators should steer the discussions in directions and tone that are consistent with the vision of the owners. They should also make useful contributions from their areas of expertise. I think we do a pretty good job of both and it is a strength of the Shack.

[mechman]

Harpmaker wrote:

Hey! I resemble that remark!

I knew from the beginning that DIY screens would become a hobby. I have a terminal case of "What If" and will always be looking for something better, or at least trying to get a better understanding of how all this stuff works.

I got my own spectro for two reasons. 1. I hate pestering you with bunches of samples to test for me 2. I can't take the waiting for results

You definitely look familiar!

Harpmaker wrote:

You can't make all the people happy all the time.

Ain't that the truth!

It's nice to see everyone's responses! And to see that they feel the same way that I do. If you have good, valid knowledge, share it. Why someone feels we should do nothing more than sit back and edit posts is beyond me.

Thank you folks!

mech

[mechman]

lcaillo wrote:

I guess it depends on whether you want police or leaders. Moderators should steer the discussions in directions and tone that are consistent with the vision of the owners. They should also make useful contributions from their areas of expertise. I think we do a pretty good job of both and it is a strength of the Shack.

Amen Leonard! It's what makes us different and sought after!

mech

[Prof.]

mechman wrote:

Is everyone OK with Bill, Jim and myself doing research, posting actual data regarding DIY mixes, reviewing DIY mixes, and generally helping folks get their projection screens to be the best it can possibly be
mech

Interesting that you should mention this today Mech..

After switching on the computer this morning and finding 154 posts waiting for me to read (and that's just since yesterday ) I began to wonder how I would ever get through them all..

The DIY Black Widow forum is, as you know, one that I have been following, having decided that this would be my next screen..

When I went to the forum this morning, I found all your latest spectro. readings on various paint combo's..
As a virtual layman when it comes to spectro readings and paint formulae, I took one brief look at it and moved on...

Now don't get me wrong...I have great respect and admiration for all you guys in the time and effort you put into this..I sometimes wonder whether you guys ever sleep, or for that matter even have paying jobs..

What I'm saying is that all these figures and formulae may be of great interest between yourselves, but to the average layman (and I include myself) it probably doesn't mean very much..

I know that when I look at them and see that they are for a whole range of mixing variations..I think, well some day soon we will have the final mix, that anyone anywhere will be able to put on their screen..

I think what I found disappointing is that we had the Black Widow presented to us as a workable screen, only later to find the difficulties in availability of products, and all the ensuing experimentations to rectify problems..

This may be the reason for any negative feedback that you might have received, and for some I guess that they feel that you guys are sort of hogging the forum...This would be stated without any real justification on their part..

I may be totally wrong and of the track about this, but something to consider since obviously something has happened, for you to write this post..

I wish all you guys speedy success in resolving all the current issues..

[Sonnie]

It sounds like one person has complained about it thus far... I would not even worry about it. You know what we are looking for and it is EXACTLY what you are doing now, which is FAR BETTER than any other forum on the Internet.

We in no way prohibit others from sharing their own formulas and doing their own testing.

Others posting information does not required anyone else to stop.

We are not going to run out of room for anyone else to start new threads and post. The forum is wide open to all who abide by the forum rules.

The comment/issue that keeps coming up though is that all presentations should be done by members only and moderators are to moderate only.

Now just who makes that decision?

Really? Did I instruct you guys of this? I must have some-zheimers, because I am drawing a blank. Ohhhh.... okay... I see now... Someone else thinks they know more about running a forum than we do and has decided they needed to tell you what to do instead of us deciding how to run it. I get it now. Man I am slow.

On a serious note... I would suggest that most forums do have moderators who are nothing more than police officers. They sit around, drink coffee and eat donuts while waiting on someone to mess up or do something so they can exercise their authority. Maybe they stick a thread all along, referee a quarrel, move, edit or delete a thread or post... or maybe answer a few questions all along. This may be all that some members are use to seeing in other places. However, that does not mean that is all a moderator can do, nor is it actually all our moderators at the Shack do. You see... there is no official Internet law out there that specifies the limits of what a moderator actually does (Wikipedia is not the law or final authority), therefore what that means is each forum owner gets to decide what a moderator will do and recruits members who will oblige. Yes indeed some forum owners ask their moderators to do more than the typical moderating duties. Here at the Shack, our moderators are also members, content generators, testers, experimenters, leaders, developers and janitors. In order to be a moderator at the Shack, you must commit to much more than merely the standard Internet moderating duties... otherwise you do not even get to play the part of moderator. This is one reason that we don't particularly require the title of moderator, but rather encourage other titles.

The part about not being able to please everyone is absolutely true. It does not matter what we do or how we do it, I can guarantee you there will ALWAYS be someone who will manage to find something to complain about. There is truth to the fact that there is no such thing as perfect.

This DIY Screen forum is the BEST anywhere, BAR NONE! The guys we have managing it are the BEST anywhere, BAR NONE! It just DOES NOT get any better than this. There are others out there slobbering jealously and envy down to their toes because of what these guys do. I (and I am fairly certain I can speak for John and our administrators) would have it no other way than how it is, unless of course they (Bill, Mech and Jim) decide they wanted it another way.

If anyone would like me to elaborate I can.

[lcaillo]

Well said numero uno!

[drf]

Sonnie wrote:

:
Here at the Shack, our moderators are also members, content generators, testers, experimenters, leaders, developers and janitors. In order to be a moderator at the Shack, you must commit to much more than merely the standard Internet moderating duties...

Can I be a moderator, I need to be comitted

seriously guys, C'mon, HTS is best administered forum on the net! why change it?
Where else does a mod/admin give you the benefit of the doubt when there is mis-comminication?

[wbassett]

drf, and everyone that replied... this has been an ongoing comment for something like eight months now. It isn't the majority, it's a personal opinion and one I was recently assaulted with again.

We as mods here discussed it to see if there was a problem, and I was way too polite to make the post so mech said what I very much wanted to. (Not that he's not polite, or I'm wimpy, I guess he was more fed up with it than I was). The person making the complant did not want it discussed, but seeing that it seems to be such an ongoing issue and concern with them I decided it needed to be discussed amongst the mods of this particular forum if for no other reason to see if there was a problem and get everyone's input (for this particular forum and mods).

I honestly do not understand what is wrong with moderators participating, unless it's that someone takes a personal issue because something said refutes something someone else may feel is true. We like to deal with facts and data. That can be dry at times but we do try to make it interesting even though some of the stuff is very boring. The end result though is now that a foundation is laid, people will trust us when a recommendation is made. They know it wasn't something said on a whim and a lot of thought was put into it. That I am proud of and proud to be a part of.

[wbassett]