Screen or Wall

[fernalfers]

I understand screenshots are not the best way to depict PQ but how come most screenshots look better on a plain wall then they do on an actual bought screen?

I want to get a good projector but if the wall looks good i'd rather spend more money on a projector if i can just watch it off the wall.

Anyone have experience with just putting it on the wall and being satisfied?

[cynical2]

Hi Blitz! Yes, just about any painted option that you see in the DIY forum can simply be applied directly to your wall (and then, typically, framed out with black trim...often velvet covered).

While there are a few (mostly high $$$) commercial screen options that DIY screens can not match, several DIY solutions are as good or better than the majority of low/mid cost commercial screens.

In fact, you can do something as simple as using a neutral grey paint (shade depends on many factors related to your particular application) on your wall, and it will be an EXCELLENT performer. There are also laminate (yes, as in kitchen countertop material) and solutions that are durable and work very well.

Recently, there's been development work on a simple non-interference paint mix (developed here, at the Shack) that is awesome, especially if you have any ambient light in your room. It's called Black Widow, and has both a Sticky thread and discussion thread dedicated to it.

I'd suggest you spend a bit of time reading some of the stickies (neutral greys, laminates, and Black Widow). Please understand that we are the only forum on the internet that thoroughly tests any recommendation you'll find in the forums. One of our mods, mech, has a spectrometer and does the bulk of the experimentation. Bill, another mod in this forum, understands the theory of color like nobody's business...he even went back to college to take courses on color theory! Black Widow is his original concept. And, I'm the mod who....hmmm....well, let's focus on Bill and mech.

If you'll share with us the details of your setup, we can help you converge on a good solution for you (DIY or commercial). We'll need data like:

• projector
• pj distance from screen
• seating distance
• screen size
• lighting (how much ambient light, or is it light controlled)
• wall color
• carpet color
• ceiling color
• user preference (what's most important to you...deep blacks or bright whites/colors)...I ask this question even though we now have options the lessen the compromise between blacks/whites that must be made when choosing your screen

Also, if you can include your shoe and hat size, that would help.

Jim

[fernalfers]

I read a lot about Wilsonart and here good things, but would have to build the frame and all. Thats why painting sounded easier. but if the laminate gives a better picture i'd do it.

Also what does everyone use 1:78, 1:85 or 2:35 ratio?

Here are the answers to your qeustions
* projector: Not sure either high end 720p or cheaper 1080p If you have any suggestions i don't want to spend anymore then $2000.00 on a PJ.
* pj distance from screen: 13ft ideal to mount on wall behind seating area.
* seating distance: 12ft
* screen size: 100inch
* lighting (how much ambient light, or is it light controlled) Light controlled
* wall color: right now light beige.
* carpet color: very light beige.
* ceiling color: white
* user preference (what's most important to you...deep blacks or bright whites/colors)...I ask this question even though we now have options the lessen the compromise between blacks/whites that must be made when choosing your screen: I just want an all around decent picture i like good blacks and definetly don't want a dull dim picture.

[cynical2]

fernalfers wrote:

I read a lot about Wilsonart and here good things, but would have to build the frame and all. Thats why painting sounded easier. but if the laminate gives a better picture i'd do it.

Also what does everyone use 1:78, 1:85 or 2:35 ratio?

Here are the answers to your qeustions
* projector: Not sure either high end 720p or cheaper 1080p If you have any suggestions i don't want to spend anymore then $2000.00 on a PJ.
* pj distance from screen: 13ft ideal to mount on wall behind seating area.
* seating distance: 12ft
* screen size: 100inch
* lighting (how much ambient light, or is it light controlled) Light controlled
* wall color: right now light beige.
* carpet color: very light beige.
* ceiling color: white
* user preference (what's most important to you...deep blacks or bright whites/colors)...I ask this question even though we now have options the lessen the compromise between blacks/whites that must be made when choosing your screen: I just want an all around decent picture i like good blacks and definetly don't want a dull dim picture.

Great, thanks for the info. IMHO, I'd get a 720p if you're sitting at 12ft and have a screen size of 100". I don't think you'd see much difference at 1080p. One to look at is the Panny AX-200U...reviews liken it to a 1080p machine.

Anyways, onto the screen. You're light controlled (which is great), but everything in your room is light colored. So, while you won't have light shining directly on your screen, you will have some reflection back to the screen (a reflection of the light coming off of the screen, then hitting your walls/ceiling and reflecting back to the screen). If you can darken your walls (even moderately), it will help with reflections. Also, if you can darken your ceiling within 4ft (or so) of the screen, that also helps with reflections.

It sounds like budget isn't a huge issue for you. There a few very good options for you.

1. Get a piece of 4x8 (also comes in 5x10 and 5x12 if you want to go bigger) Designer White laminate. Should run well under $100. Screw it around the perimeter directly to your wall, then frame it in boards wrapped in black velvet. I used composite window casing for the frame.
2. Just use a known OTS neutral grey paint. Either frame it in (for better perceived contrast) or don't (if you want the look of a plain wall when not using the pj).
3. Use Black Widow. Hopefully Bill or mech will chime in here, but suffice it to say that it’s very good in any viewing conditions, but truly sets itself apart in settings with ambient light issues.

What’s your preference between painting and laminate? And, can you darken the walls and/or ceiling?

As far as aspect ratio of the screen...most use 16:9 and some use 2:37. I use 2:37 and then zoom my pj's image to fill the screen for 2:37 movies. When I'm watching 16:9 content (HDTV), I have empty space on the sides of the image. If you go with a 16:9 screen, then you have bars top and bottom when watching 2:37 movies. This choice is up to you, and depends on things like (1) what you usually watch...movies or HDTV, (2) space available on the wall, etc.

[tritonman]

fernalfers wrote:

I read a lot about Wilsonart and here good things, but would have to build the frame and all. Thats why painting sounded easier. but if the laminate gives a better picture i'd do it.

Also what does everyone use 1:78, 1:85 or 2:35 ratio?

Here are the answers to your qeustions
* projector: Not sure either high end 720p or cheaper 1080p If you have any suggestions i don't want to spend anymore then $2000.00 on a PJ.
* pj distance from screen: 13ft ideal to mount on wall behind seating area.
* seating distance: 12ft
* screen size: 100inch
* lighting (how much ambient light, or is it light controlled) Light controlled
* wall color: right now light beige.
* carpet color: very light beige.
* ceiling color: white
* user preference (what's most important to you...deep blacks or bright whites/colors)...I ask this question even though we now have options the lessen the compromise between blacks/whites that must be made when choosing your screen: I just want an all around decent picture i like good blacks and definetly don't want a dull dim picture.

I can help out here a little. Your setup is almost just like mine.

I would highly recommend the Epson Home Cinema 720. I did a ton of research before I bought this projector and I went from a $3500 Sony projector to the Epson. This projector is bright..and I mean real bright. The colors are amazing the blacks are very good, and its one of the most versatile mounting projectors. I purchased mine from Visual Apex for $1299 with $50 off instantly, $100 mail in rebate, free projector mount, free dust cover and a free bulb ($345). You really cant find a better deal than that. BTW the deal ends the end of this month i believe.

I have mine shooting in a laminate screen similar to the Designer White used all over. You can see my screen build here. It was really quite easy and only took a few hours. The laminate is amazing and easy to work with. Another good factor of laminate is its durability. It can easily be cleaned periodically with mild detergent or windex and a soft cloth. This stuff will take some serious abuse as tested by wbassett.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...up-beware.html

My seating distance is 12ft with a 92" screen. My projector is mounted about a foot behind and above my head. At your seating distance I personally would not recommend anything larger than 92", maybe 96". The reason being is you may experience eye fatigue with anything larger since your eyes may have to scan left and right during movies to see the entire screen. This is just personal experience but your mileage may vary

My walls are "coffee" colored so a couple shades darker than yours and my carpet will be a light beige when done. If you look in the Home Theater Construction threads you will see my build called "Going Backwards". I have track lighting on the back wall and the side wall. I can watch a movie with all those lights on a still see the screen perfectly. This projector is insanely bright! Did i mention that already

HD on this the projector is mind blowing. I find my jaw dropping watching HD and movies on the Epson as the colors and sharpness and blacks are amazing for a projector costing only $1200. I cant believe how much better this thing is compared to my expensive Sony projector.

As far as ratio is concerned i personally use the HD standard ratio. Do a search for projection calculator to find out optimal seating, size of screen, how much light you will have with screen gain etc as well as how far back your projector can be mounted.

I am working on some screen shots to post to go along with my screen build, but you should not base your purchase on screen shots alone. There are quite a few reviews out there on the Epson so finding one shouldnt be an issue. Its gotten rave reviews and Editor Choice awards etc. But you will be the ultimate deciding factor

If you have any other questions lemme know and I will help out as much as i can.

[fernalfers]

Thanks Cynical and triton for your replies. I was looking at buying the Epson Home Cinema 1080 UB. But if what you are saying about the Epson 720 is true maybe i should save my money. The only thing that i wanted was at least 2 HDMI ports in the back and the 720 only has one.

I actually have a soffit above where the screen will go so that should help a lot in blocking some light from the ceiling. And painting the room a darker color would not be a problem at all. Just not sure the wife would want the ceiling anything but white. I wanted to go with a 104inch screen from carada but after seeing your DIY screen i think i will go that route.

Where do you buy the Laminate from? What shade of white would be good? I will actually be sitting 13 feet from the screen with projector mounted on wall behind me at 14ft.

I am definetly going to look into that Epson you have. If you do have screenies i'd love to see them. By the way your screen came out perfect. How much was the end cost for your screen if i may ask?

I'm nervous moving into the front projection scene but everyone tells me the movie experience beats rear projection TV's hands down.

My 56 1080p TV just isn't big enough for me anymore.

I just want to be sure that with HD content from a Blu-Ray player will look as good or better then my current Samsung DLP.

[wbassett]

Bluray content will look exceptional on a good DIY or commercial screen. If you go commercial, I'd probably stay away from the non-tab tensioned retractable screens unless you're ready to combat wave issues. A fixed frame won't have that problem.

One thing I would like to comment on is projectors and HDTVs. Just like is always said about a screen having (or not having) a reference to compare it by- for instance by itself a Firehawk or DaLite Silver Matte look fantastic, but when a white reference is introduced whites now have a white reference and the dark gray screens as mentioned do show a performance hit. Take away that reference and the screen now looks fantastic again.

Same applies with comparing a projector to an HDTV. I have a multi-purpose room setup where there is a 55" Sony SXRD HDTV and above that is a 106" projector screen. When watching the projector it looks very good. However if I turn the SXRD on, the projector suffers by comparison.

Projectors look more film like even when the brightness is cranked up and colors are over saturated it still doesn't look 'quite' like an HDTV. It really is an apples to bananas comparison that way just like comparing a gray screen to a white screen.

You will get an amazing image though with a projector and really good screen. I'm just saying that it's hard to judge these two types of viewing side by side. What we do is watch regular viewing content on the 55" and for big epic movies or block busters, we watch them 'big' on the projector as they were intended to be seen... big and epic!

You can get close to the look of an HDTV, but my feelings are that it will never be exactly like watching on an HDTV... but really, if that's what you wanted you wouldn't have gotten a projector! There is nothing like dimming the lights, getting a bowl of popcorn (next time you're at the movies, get a plastic popcorn bucket and save it and use that at home!) and firing up Star Wars, Spiderman, Kingdom of Heaven, 2001... you get the idea... and sitting back and having your very own mini-plex! Or if your projector is bright enough, boxing or sporting events like the Super Bowl take on a whole different feel at 100" plus!

I'm a movie buff, so that's what I use my projector for. Some do use it for every day viewing of TV content and they will handle that task nicely too. I'm just pointing out the differences in the two types of viewing is all.

[tritonman]

I actually have a soffit above where the screen will go so that should help a lot in blocking some light from the ceiling. And painting the room a darker color would not be a problem at all. Just not sure the wife would want the ceiling anything but white. I wanted to go with a 104inch screen from carada but after seeing your DIY screen i think i will go that route.

This projector is so bright I honestly dont believe a white ceiling would make a difference. My walls were a lighter shade of beige as well but I ended going a shade or 2 darker with a Coffee color, thats the exact name of the color btw which i got at Home depot. Its a really good WAF color and helps my black leather sectional really stand out

Where do you buy the Laminate from? What shade of white would be good? I will actually be sitting 13 feet from the screen with projector mounted on wall behind me at 14ft.

The laminate I actually lucked out and got for free from wbassett here in the forums. You can buy it from Home Depot as well as some other places, so do a little price searching. The color you want to go with is called Designer White from Wilsonart. There is a laminate thread somewhere in here that will provide you with the exact number of the color for ordering purposes. The thread also explains the sizes it comes in so that may also be a deciding factor in your screen size. With my 92" screen I still wish I was a couple feet back but its not really that bad. I suggest you go as big as you want and try it out since you can always go smaller and not bigger once your screen is made. The Epson has a really good throw range so you arent limited much at all in distance from the screen. It also has a vertical and horizontal lense shift which helps tremendously in fine tuning.

I am definetly going to look into that Epson you have. If you do have screenies i'd love to see them. By the way your screen came out perfect. How much was the end cost for your screen if i may ask?

The Epson would be an excellent choice and the savings could be put somewhere else in your build for either equipment or the cost of building etc. The materials to build the screen were minimal..The luann was roughly 15$ and the wood was maybe 2$ each. The carpet trim was probably about 5$ each or less. You could probably build the entire thing for around $100 or slightly more including the laminate. Do a little price searching at different hardware stores.

I am amazed at the picture quality of the Epson, I swear its so good its like having a 92" LCD TV hanging on my wall. Plus you really cant beat the deal Visual Apex is offering, the free replacement bulb alone is a deal clincher. If all goes well then i should have some screenies up within the next couple days.

As a matter of fact, wbassett is swinging by my house tomorrow to have a look see, he was looking at a different projector as well until I recommended the Epson to him so he wants to come over and get a first hand experience of the Epson. Im sure he wouldnt mind posting his findings here after he is done looking at my setup.

I'm nervous moving into the front projection scene but everyone tells me the movie experience beats rear projection TV's hands down.

I was nervous as you were when i entered the projector world 4+ years ago. Now i will never buy another tv for my movie viewing ever. You just cant argue with a 92" screen and a $1200 viewing device. To get that kind of size in a Tv..well..just forget it unless you won the lottery or something..hell even THEN I would just buy a better projector anyways

I just want to be sure that with HD content from a Blu-Ray player will look as good or better then my current Samsung DLP.

This is a tough call since one is an LCD and the other is a DLP. I would probably say that the quality would be close..maybe the same. Like wbasset said, he has a TV for normal TV viewing. I personally use my projector for daily viewing and movie watching. You would have to get a pretty expensive projector to be better than a TV but even the Epson comes pretty close. I have a 37" LCD in my living room and I swear my projector rivals it every inch of the way.

I can honestly say regardless you will be VERY happy with a projector..there is nothing like watching a movie at 92"'s or higher. I also noticed you were concerned with a single HDMI input. There are cheap and effective HDMi switchers out there which would suit your needs. In fact a friend of mine bought one and loves it. Wish i could remember the model number. You should be able to get a 5 HDMI switcher with remote for under $100..so with the savings of the projector you could easily swing that

[cynical2]

Great advice, Tritonman! Agree with all you say. I am also sold on front projection. I watched a Blu-ray move recently (I've only watched one...I have a lot more HD-DVD's), and it was crystal clear...astonishing. Blitz, this is on a 150" diagonal 2:37 screen with a 720P (Panny AX100U) projector. In my case, I narrowed my choices down to the Panny and the Epson Home Cinema 400...I ended up going with the Panny in large part due to the deal I got at the time.

There's some great reviews out there...here are good detailed examples of reviews on the Panny and Epson pjs I mentioned (click the links near the top of each article for a given pj). I'd suggest reading as much as you can (both professional and testamonials), and take a look locally if you have that option. Then, happily pull the trigger and think of all the money you saved.

The advice on an HDMI switcher is also excellent. Here's a great option for 40 bucks. I own this one, and monoprice makes top notch cables/switches at a bargain cost.

[tritonman]

fernalfers,

I finally got some screenshots up of the Epson here..

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...reenshots.html

[fernalfers]

Hey love the screens. This is so hard i want to just buy the Epson 720 but i feel if i do i'm going to regret not buying the 1080UB and being able to stay upgrade free for much longer.

Choices Choices. I would of bought the 1080UB already but the extra 1500 price tag of the 1080UB is making me hesitate.

[cynical2]

fernalfers wrote:

Hey love the screens. This is so hard i want to just buy the Epson 720 but i feel if i do i'm going to regret not buying the 1080UB and being able to stay upgrade free for much longer.

Choices Choices. I would of bought the 1080UB already but the extra 1500 price tag of the 1080UB is making me hesitate.

Don't do it!

In all seriousness, you'll be in awe of a good 720p projector for quite a while. Mine still blows me away. By the time you really think you need to move to a 1080p, it'll be a couple of years from now. By then, they'll cost $1000. You can buy one then with the money you're saving now, and you'll have a new pj with 2 more years of technology development behind it.

[tritonman]

cynical2 wrote:

Don't do it!

In all seriousness, you'll be in awe of a good 720p projector for quite a while. Mine still blows me away. By the time you really think you need to move to a 1080p, it'll be a couple of years from now. By then, they'll cost $1000. You can buy one then with the money you're saving now, and you'll have a new pj with 2 more years of technology development behind it.

I agree with cynical on this. Im not 100% sure you would get 1500$ more worth of a picture than you would with the Epson or some other 720p projector. If you have the money to spend then use that $1500 somewhere else in your build. With that additional money there are a lot of other things you could buy that would provide you more enjoyment than spending it on one device alone. $1500 could get you a really nice set of towers or a Bluray player..or real nice receiver etc.

Or if you've got the extra money to spend then go for it on the 1080UB! Always do what makes you happy, the best we can do, is give you advice while the final choice should always be up to you.