Home Theater Screen Product Line - Development Research

[phaseshift]

Hi Everyone,
My firm has been hired by a client to develop a line of fixed and motorized film screens specifically geared towards the home theater market. These will be mainstream products; nothing too exotic and certainly not the el-cheapo junk level. As a reasonably long time member of this forum, I have contacted Sonnie and asked about getting some feedback, advice and developing a wish list as a matter of assisting with the R&D portion of this project.

That said, I am interested in learning your opinions and the hidden issues related to 4 main areas-

1. Size and formats – This is the easiest one since they are going for the HT market at the initial offering. I doubt we will have 4X3 aspect, but it is an option as a custom build if folks want that. 16:9 and 2.35:1 will be the first to hit production.

2. Screen material selection- Here is where I am going to admit that I have the least experience and need the most opinions / preferences. I guess the question is more about the preferences than anything- What do you want to see in a mid priced screen and what are the things that you believe we should add if possible to give that little extra bit of performance or quality? This would be for matte white, high contrast and high gain.
a. Whatever screen material is employed, must be thoroughly inspected and I have already planned an automated inspection system using vision equipment (for holes and damage, end of roll etc…) as well as a spectrophotometer to check color and balance. This is pretty easy to automate if the budget is there.

3. Mechanical / Assembly methods, attachment to the wall – Here is where I am looking for comments based on experience. What worked well, what you dislike etc… The mechanical design is 90% complete already; I just want to confirm that what we are doing will not be disliked. I can probably gather that from commentary.

4. Other – the stuff I am not thinking about.

I would appreciate comments and suggestions from the point of view that I do not have – that of a consumer in the AV world. This is where I need to hear your comments, see your preference and so on. I know there are some pretty well informed folks posting here and I am not looking to displace anyone or come off as Mr. K.I.A. Please be gentle with me.

Finally, I have not cleared it with the customer yet, but I feel certain that I will be able to get at least a screen or two for a raffle / giveaway once they go into production. I bet I can make that happen.


Thanks in advance for the time and consideration.

[mechman]

I just wanted to let you know that I will be replying to this soon! I don't have time to give it what it deserves at this time but tomorrow I will. Just letting you know that this isn't being ignored.

mech

[wbassett]

phaseshift wrote:

Hi Everyone,
My firm has been hired by a client to develop a line of fixed and motorized film screens specifically geared towards the home theater market. These will be mainstream products; nothing too exotic and certainly not the el-cheapo junk level. As a reasonably long time member of this forum, I have contacted Sonnie and asked about getting some feedback, advice and developing a wish list as a matter of assisting with the R&D portion of this project.

That said, I am interested in learning your opinions and the hidden issues related to 4 main areas-

1. Size and formats – This is the easiest one since they are going for the HT market at the initial offering. I doubt we will have 4X3 aspect, but it is an option as a custom build if folks want that. 16:9 and 2.35:1 will be the first to hit production.
   
   I would start with 16:9 format since that is the most common and most versatile. I would though consider a 2.35:1 option for those that request that, but most are in the market for 16:9
   
2. Screen material selection- Here is where I am going to admit that I have the least experience and need the most opinions / preferences. I guess the question is more about the preferences than anything- What do you want to see in a mid priced screen and what are the things that you believe we should add if possible to give that little extra bit of performance or quality? This would be for matte white, high contrast and high gain.
   
   The newer projectors are getting brighter and brighter all the time. With that in mind gain isn't as much of an issue as it was just a year or two ago. I would go for better uniformity throughout the entire viewing plane as well as concentrate on accurate color reproduction. White and a light gray do tend to be the most popular options, but a nice neutral matte gray in the N8 Munsell shade range is also very popular with people that sometimes want to have some room lighting on.
   
   What I always look for is how well balanced the screen is to D65. The key is not altering what the projector is producing and the best way to achieve that is sticking to as close to D65 neutral as you can. If you are having the screen material made, the textile industry follows the same color standards we talk about in here so they would be able to under stand color values and tolerances and should be able to match that.
   
   a. Whatever screen material is employed, must be thoroughly inspected and I have already planned an automated inspection system using vision equipment (for holes and damage, end of roll etc…) as well as a spectrophotometer to check color and balance. This is pretty easy to automate if the budget is there.
   
   Seems like you covered the bases for Quality Assurance.
   
3. Mechanical / Assembly methods, attachment to the wall – Here is where I am looking for comments based on experience. What worked well, what you dislike etc… The mechanical design is 90% complete already; I just want to confirm that what we are doing will not be disliked. I can probably gather that from commentary.
   
   Multiple stops that are easily setup and controlled by the remote. Also a nice black border, at least 2" wide. This will allow a person to drop the screen for a 2.35:1 aspect or bring it all the way down for a full 16:9 display.
   
   Also tab tensioning or some way to prevent waves is a must. That is the single biggest complaint people have with retractable screens that are not tab tensioned.
   
   Masking systems are also something to look into. Most masking systems are only available on high end high priced screens, if one can be added to a mid level screen at a decent price, that would be a killer feature.
   
   For mounting, ensure a multi-function mount where a person can either mount it to the wall or the ceiling depending on their setup. Also some people like hidden designs that either retract into the ceiling or a soffet. Basically fit and trim items and options.
   
4. Other – the stuff I am not thinking about.

I would appreciate comments and suggestions from the point of view that I do not have – that of a consumer in the AV world. This is where I need to hear your comments, see your preference and so on. I know there are some pretty well informed folks posting here and I am not looking to displace anyone or come off as Mr. K.I.A. Please be gentle with me.

Finally, I have not cleared it with the customer yet, but I feel certain that I will be able to get at least a screen or two for a raffle / giveaway once they go into production. I bet I can make that happen.


Thanks in advance for the time and consideration.

Hope that was helpful and what you were looking for.

[Prof.]

phaseshift wrote:

1. Size and formats – This is the easiest one since they are going for the HT market at the initial offering. I doubt we will have 4X3 aspect, but it is an option as a custom build if folks want that. 16:9 and 2.35:1 will be the first to hit production. .

When it comes to Scope screens (CIH Anamorphic projection) bear in mind that the recognized AR for these screens is 2.37 or 2.40:1..
There is a steadily growing market for these types of screens..

[mechman]

I believe Bill beat me to the punch! I was planning on responding to #2 only and I felt I had two things to offer - uniformity and neutrality. I think Bill answered as well as I could. One thing to add though is that uniformity in the sense that when you're watching bright scenes you don't see the graininess of high gain material currently out there at present.

mech

[cynical2]

I agree, Bill's input is great. A couple of things I didn't see mentioned (but I could've missed them):

Lightweight is good. It's nice if only one person can put it up/take it down.

Oh, and maybe offer an option to backlight the perimeter. A lot of people do that with rope lights...you can see mech's screenshots for an example of this.

Lastly, an option for an acoustically transparent screen would be nice. Hiding the speakers behind the screen is popular. Keep in mind that these screens have an open material, typically with a grid pattern. So, the pattern needs to be rotated on a > 15 degree angle to avoid moire' effects (picture degradation due to interaction in the fabric's grid pattern and the pixel pattern of the projector).

[cynical2]

Where are you Gui Lao?

[phaseshift]

Thanks to everyone for the input and replies; this is all good stuff.

Colors- The indications here are very similar to what was planned from the start and serve to reinforce those plans very nicely.

Gain – I completely agree that the increased performance of the projectors is driving the need for higher gains down. On top of that, I have never personally been a big fan of high gain screens, but I can estimate that the client will want something in the 1.3 to 1.6 range as a second round offering. That said, the team has made a decision against the use of glass bead coatings due to consumer safety. I have always felt that there was a risk when using the beads due to transfer into the eyes. Consequently, I have interviewed specialists in the optometry field; they are all in agreement that the use of the glass beads is a significant consumer safely risk, especially to families with toddlers and young children. This is simply due to the strong possibility of the glass beads transferring to the child’s fingers, then to the eyes. Once in the eyes, the beads pose a very real risk of serious problems. Other companies may feel differently about this and may have well proven solutions.

Motorized screens Tab tensioned only. We are not working on any non tensioned screens at this time.
For the housings, I have a reasonably neat multiple mounting system worked out that will allow for ceiling or wall mounting without having to go through a lot of extra steps. Simplicity and safe are keys here as I see it. Obviously, aesthetics are important in the finished product and that is high on the priority list as well.

Masking systems are not a hot priority right now. Acoustically transparent is, but there is some skepticism about how well this will sell. Those will have to come later. Maybe early ’09?

Where am I ? -

Right after posting this, I experienced a significant computer glitch that basically took me out of action for a while. To make matters worse, it was on the day I would have typically done a remote backup. Drive C= crashed, D= damaged. I was not even able to get my outlook .pst file or any meaningful data off the other drive, so I am in something of a rebuilding process on the last 3 weeks of data. Fortunately, this does not have any real impact on my company operations other than being a pain in the butt for my GM and our computer guy since I do not store any significant amount of project files or engineering data on my notebook.

If you are looking geographical location, it depends on which day you ask. My company has offices in Shenzhen, China and Manila, Philippines. My work has me traveling extensively between the offices and other areas within Asia and while not doing that, I am either stateside on business or in Guam.

[phaseshift]

Hi All-

The project is moving forward albeit with some delays in the decision making process stateside relative to sizes and packaging. We are on track but if I had my way, we would move faster. These will actually be pretty nice units; all custom tooled from the ground up. I like that as it gave us the opportunity to design out some of the more frustrating features that their focus group has complained about while shaving off the excess fat in the right places (i.e. - not letting the accounting guys go nuts after we finish the engineering).

I have a couple of specific questions that I would like to address to Mech and Prof- Mostly related to the actual screen color and gain.

• What sort of spectrometer are you using or do you prefer? It looks like a PC integrated unit and I am interested in picking up a new one. We have a Minolta which is used by our QA group now and I do not want to pull it out of service and go through a painful calibration and standards validation session on existing products. Also, I am not all that tickled with the thing to be honest. I hear that there are better, less expensive computer based color spectrometry sets out there now.
• Does anyone know of a good source for RGB or Munsell shades by number as compared to some of the more popular screens in the market – OR – as defined by those in the know to be “good” targets?
• There still seems to be a lot of confusion about accurately measuring screen gain which has lead to some rather heated debates within the project group. I have looked all over the web and high and low for a good resource about this and can not find anything I really trust. Do any of you know where I can find a good description of the equipment and methods required for accurate and meaningful gain measurements?

[mechman]

phaseshift wrote:

• What sort of spectrometer are you using or do you prefer? It looks like a PC integrated unit and I am interested in picking up a new one. We have a Minolta which is used by our QA group now and I do not want to pull it out of service and go through a painful calibration and standards validation session on existing products. Also, I am not all that tickled with the thing to be honest. I hear that there are better, less expensive computer based color spectrometry sets out there now.
• Does anyone know of a good source for RGB or Munsell shades by number as compared to some of the more popular screens in the market – OR – as defined by those in the know to be “good” targets?
• There still seems to be a lot of confusion about accurately measuring screen gain which has lead to some rather heated debates within the project group. I have looked all over the web and high and low for a good resource about this and can not find anything I really trust. Do any of you know where I can find a good description of the equipment and methods required for accurate and meaningful gain measurements?

- A Gretag Macbeth i1pro

- Just check the stickies above. There's a master list of everything that has been measured here.

- You need a block of magnesium carbonate and either a spot meter or the i1. Some type of goniometer wouldn't be a bad idea either for determining the exact angles. The magnesium carbonate would be the reference material with a gain of 1 and you would use those values to figure the gain of your screen material. I have everything I need to do it except for a goniometer. And unfortunately spring has sprung here and my time is spent outside more than in lately. As soon as I get caught up though I fully intend to get this completely figured out.