Mine are on their way - should be here in a couple of days.
A couple of us are going to try them out in different properties and see how they work. I'll feedback the results.

 

I'd be curious to know myself if they work.

 

They arrived today and plugged in - flashing like crazy on some circuits and slow flashing on others, so there's something going on.
Already have an idea on how they affect the sound but will post feedback after more prolonged listening tests.

NB
I'm OK with the vote based on pollers trying the Harvesters out, but feel its unfair to vote based on opinion, predjudice etc. It' s unfair on the manufacturer and just an opinion to vote with no experience, and adds no value.

 

I wait patiently for your review oh great one. :hail:

 

Phil, you now have Zealots following you :rofl: J/K Totally loved those part from Toy Story and Toy Story 2.

Welcome to the forum Laserman.

~Bob

 

I've spent the last few days staining my deck and just reassembled my system - I wanted to try the Harvesters with my Richard Grey.
When I first plugged 3 into a group of outlets they all flashed at a similar frequency, the last 2 went into a seperate group of outlets and flashed at a lower frequency. Being a sceptic I thought that maybe PS Audio tunes them in the factory to flash at a pre-determined frequency to fool us into believing we had 'noise' in the supply. I swapped them over and confirmed that they are not pre-set.:rolleyesno:

I'll need a few days to recover from them strobing at me all day, and give them a fair trial. I also will have a friend come over for the blind trial, to eliminate the 'these cost $400 so they must do something' syndrome.

 

Harvesters - Initial Impression

I've had my system offline for the last week and a half waiting for a new 3 channel amp to arrive, I noticed that during this time I wasn't completely happy with what I was hearing so wanted to reinstall everything before giving the Harvesters a fair crack of the whip. The key component missing was my Richard Gray RGPC1200, don't know what it does but my system is sweeter to listen to with it in place. And from this reference point it was the right environment to give the Harvesters a workout.

Equipment used:
Modwright Sony NS999ES CD/SACD/DVD player
B&W N803 speakers
Musical Fidelity KW500 integrated amp
Richard Gray RGPC1200

Under test:
5 PS Audio Harvesters

Tests disc used:
Steve Reid - Bamboo Forest
The Coors - Talk On Corners
Sweetbottom - Live The Reunion
Seal - IV
Alan Hull - Pipedream

I plugged the Harvesters in different locations in my HT room, which has two seperate 20amp circuits, and did see the Harvesters flashing away at different frequencies in different locations at different times of the day. The discs chosen are ones that my local buddy Lou (free plug for his jazzsite http://www.contemporaryjazz.com/) and I use to get a first impression of a piece of equipment. These discs (except for Pipedream, which is one of my old favs) are very revealing and can quickly give an indication of soundstage, male and female vocals, instrument separation and 'musicality'.
First impression with 1 Harvester plugged in - no significant change, all 5 Harvesters - no significant change.
By no significant change I'm talking about a 1-3% difference with and without them, which at $400 does not represent for me a good price performance equation. In addition the 1-3% range is in the land of 'psycho acoustics' or 'I thought I heard something'.
The next step is to give them a week in my system to see if the change is subtle, and finding out what changes take place after getting used to them . I will then go over to Lou's place to try them in a different environment, and report back.

I had planned to wait until the Harvesters had been in my system, and at a second location before posting: but decided to post an interim report as their is a lot of interest. With this in mind the final verdict isn't in yet - so please bear this in mind before drawing any conclusions.
Acid test, will I keep them? The jury is still out:dontknow:

 

These are basically filters to create a load at frequencies other than the line frequency and dissipate The problem that I see with them is that there is a lot of noise in electrical systems that does not effect problems with sound nor pix in most systems. Some systems may have problems that do affect the sound or pix, but most do not. I have done lots of experimenting to try to find what kinds of line noise is actually visible in video systems and found that in most video components, the power supplies eliminate most problems with line noise. Ground loops are another matter. With audio systems, there is more liklihood of a.c. noise creating a problem but it is relatively rare.

Consider how most video components power supplies operate. Most use a switching supply that takes incoming a.c., rectifies it (as does a conventional power supply) to d.c. and filters it with relatively large capacitors(though nothing like the capacity in a typical audio amplifier, maybe 680 uF). At this point it could still have a fair amount of noise on it and more likely significant ripple. That d.c. with noise is then switched on and off at a rate of perhaps 50-125 khz. This switched d.c. looks like a distorted square wave that is input to the primary of a transformer, inducing a current in the secondary. This current is rectified, typically by high speed or barrier diodes and fltered using caps approriate for the load. Typically there are multiple filter caps and multiple supplies on the secondary at different voltages. More regulation is applied on most supplies, folowed by filter caps on those lines.

The bottom line is, in most video components that work this way, it is nearly impossible for low level noise on the original a.c. to survive the several stages of rectification, switching, and filtering. More conventional power supplies typically used in audio components are more likely to allow low level a.c. noise to pass, but also do a pretty good job of filtering it.

Devices like the PS filters are likely doing something. The question is whether it is of value and whether it represents a value to the user. I suspect that in most cases it does not. In some rare cases there may be noise that they might affect. I would be interested in the conditions that might make such devices useful.

 

it is nearly impossible for low level noise on the original a.c. to survive the several stages of rectification, switching, and filtering.

Exactly.

Phil, I'm pleased to see you've remained neutral and have an open mind about the efficacy of the Harvester. I'll offer an opinion.

I have to give kudos to PS Audio for their marketing ability with this product. Devices that don't have moving parts need some sort of visual boost to let the user know that it's working. What better than a flashing light and reciting the law of conservation of energy to prove the job's being done.

AC line filtering is a well understood science. There's nothing new in that department. The tried an true method of EMI/RFI noise filtering is to employ a low pass filter made up from a series/parallel ladder of inductors and capacitors that attenuate and bypass high frequencies, so as to restrict them from arriving at your equipment. They do a good job, although most electronics equipment in your system have very high EMI/RFI noise rejection already built in. The power supply transformer, bypass capacitors, filter capacitors, voltage regulators and the chips themselves all provide a high frequency noise rejection that could easily be as much as 100dB from line cord to chip. The assumption that we even require filtering is overstated.

I'm sure the Harvester is a fine parallel filter and works as advertised, although detailed claims are absent. The Harvesters parallel impedance (frequency dependant resistance) will lower for high frequencies and be insignificant at 60Hz just like any other simple parallel two lead filter. The high frequency energy will be diverted to a capacitor and then some electronic arrangement will fire the light until the capacitor is suitably discharged. A typical parallel filter will divert the energy to the neutral line. Both methods are effective, although it's really better to provide a combination of series and parallel filtering such as a power conditioner will possess. Note PS Audio agrees with this conclusion since they recommend a standard series/parallel conditioner also to be used in conjunction with the Harvester.

Most EMI/RFI filters provide insertion loss tables so you can choose the size you want to employ. If I look at the filter I use in my own system it spells out all the necessary specifications to understand what the device does in the circuit. I use a standard CORCOM V-series 30 amp line filter 30VK6. It uses a tried and true impedance ladder shown below with associated specifications on insertion loss.

This tells me a lot.
I know what this filter is going to do before I use it.
Would I buy it without the specifications - no.


Here's the marketing hype from PS Audio on their product.

Here’s the dirty little secret none of our competitors want you to know.  
ALL power line filters - regardless of design – do not actually eliminate noise from the power line.
Instead, they only shift the noise around from one place to another!

So noise that comes in the hot side of the line may be sent over to the neutral or ground side.  

But it most certainly is NOT removed or reduced.  Even so, there is nearly always SOME benefit.  
Just not all you paid for.

Physics 101

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.  
Unless we choose to ignore it, we only have two choices:
  
It can be rerouted or it can be converted to another form of energy.  
It cannot be destroyed as some marketing materials might suggest.

So let’s assume we definitely want to eliminate the noise, 
not just hide it somewhere where it can still cause trouble.

Seriously, whether we divert the noise to neutral and ground or turn on a light bulb, it matters not.
What's important is that it doesn't arrive at our equipment. I would have rather seen a spec sheet on the Harvester rather than lesson 101 and then we could have decided how well it worked before purchase.
As I said before, this is a well understood principle - no magic here.

brucek

 

Phil, thanks for the feedback on the Harvesters. You were honest and candid about what they did in your system without bashing the possibility they may work in someone else’s system.

Hey Bob, I ain’t no Zealot, just one of Phil’s peeps. :hail: to Phil :hail: to Phil :hail: to Phil...LOL

Leonard and BruceK, thank you for the electricity / physics 101 stuff…my head is still spinning over what you two wrote.

What I want to know is how a device can work when your electronic gear isn’t plugged into it. Yes, I have had adverse experiences (added noise into the line) with a light dimmer that was wired in the same circuit breaker feed as my audio gear. However, I just can’t get my brain to wrap around the concept of these devices having a favorable impact with something on the same line or in the same house instead of my gear being plugged directly into it (like a conditioner or suppressor). I remain cautiously interested and await Phil’s trial at his friend’s house.

Speaking of the “Great One's” friend…Phil, would you care to share with us the jazz cds that he has recommended to you to use for testing out your equipment?

Thanks,
Laserman

 

Laserman,

Jazz CD's - Diana Krall, The Girl In The Other Room is one of the favorites for vocals and bass - I'm just a simple Floyd, Zeppelin, Yes guy! I'll get a list from Lou, he's a lurker here but can give me a list to post for promoting his site.

Give me another week with the Harvesters, Lou is more critical than I am and calibrates me if I think I'm hearing something - normally its a slap on the head:huh: At least PS Audio let you try them in order to see if they work in your environment, so they're worth a try.

I'm shocked that I missed my Richard Gray, this was going to go on Audiogon to generate some $ for new toys, its definetly a keeper. I've had it for 3 years and didn't think it did much except take up rack space, it takes out some of the harshness.

Regarding the electronics 101 lesson we received - its confused me also:scratch:

Finally, you can cut out the Great One stuff, Your Majesty works just fine :hail:

 

What I want to know is how a device can work when your electronic gear isn’t plugged into it. Yes, I have had adverse experiences (added noise into the line) with a light dimmer that was wired in the same circuit breaker feed as my audio gear. However, I just can’t get my brain to wrap around the concept of these devices having a favorable impact with something on the same line or in the same house instead of my gear being plugged directly into it (like a conditioner or suppressor).

The device is parallel in the circuit just like the MOVs in a surge suppressor. Like those MOVs, they only allow current to flow through the device when certain conditions are met. In the case of a filter, the conditions are that energy exixts at the right frequency, which is not the frequency of the a.c. power. In the case of MOVs in a surge suppressor, it depends on the voltage. Your electrical system in your home has lots of things in parallel, like that dimmer.

A good analogy would be room damping devices that absorb certain frequencies. They are not part of your speaker system but still have an effect.

The question, IMO, is not whether it is possible for a parallel device to affect the circuit, but whether the effect is meaningful.

 

Speaking of the “Great One's” friend…Phil, would you care to share with us the jazz cds that he has recommended to you to use for testing out your equipment?

Thanks,
Laserman

In addition to the cd's I mentioned Lou suggests these:

Spies - self-titled
Patricia Barber - live , a fortnight in france
Diana Krall - the look of love
Shapes - the big picture
Flim & the BBs - big notes
Bob Mintzer - art of the big band

These cds are recorded/mastered very well and the music writing and arrangements are fantastic.

As jazz has got so many sub genre's you might want to check out the website I mentioned in a previous post:
contemporaryjazz.com
The guy's there can help out with a more detailed list.

 

Flim & the BB's - Big Notes... awesome! One of my favorites!

So is the verdict still out on the Harvester Phil?

 

Well Sonnie I want to give them a fair trial, so I'll just keep them installed for another week and then remove them and see if I miss them or not. Also they're going for a field trip to Big Lou's, that will give another data point.
So the jury is still out:dontknow:

 

Phil, thanks for the jazz recommendations (I guess it is Lou I should be thanking). I sampled most of them and ordered them from half.com and amazon. Great music for sure and I can't wait to hear how they sound in my system. :T

Thanks again and I too am waiting on a follow-up on the harvesters after your road trip to Lou's. :drive:

 

Thanks again and I too am waiting on a follow-up on the harvesters after your road trip to Lou's. :drive:

He's enticed me with food tomorrow lunch time, he knows my weakness. So I can feel a review session coming on.
Based on the thumbs up on the Film & The BB's I too listened to the Amazon demo's and bought it from half.com (we probably bought the same copy:laugh: )

 

So I can feel a review session coming on

I'll propose a test for the Harvester.

Remove his line conditioner and test the Harvester by pressing your ear on a tweeter and check the noise floor with and without it.

Then plug in his conditioner and perform the same test.

I suggest you'll notice a small difference on test #1 and no difference on test #2.

brucek

 

Laserman, you inspired me to use a photograph of my security system as my Avatar, thanks

 

Just got back from Big Lou's.
My main agenda was to try out my new Butler 3 channel amp, and eat

He had other ideas and wanted to try out the Harvesters first, to get this over with asap I sat in his hot listening position and started to pick up magazines and look as bored as possible:snoring:
He ignored my body language. After Big L running around the house putting Harvester in and out in and out.....we couldn't believe it. The harvesters made a significant positive improvement in opening up the soundstage and smoothening up the mids and highs, and this was on two seperate speaker systems in two different rooms using a Rega Apollo CD player and a newly refurbished Threshold amp.
Big L used to be in the high end retail business, and is more cynical than I am - We were both shocked about the improvement they made..
He's going to keep them and play with them some more, but we both thought that for the $399 for 4 the value equation was well worthwhile.

So whats the conclusion?
They work for him but not for me, we both have good two channel systems and are calibrated in knowing what sounds ok and what sounds bad.
Its not the conclusion forum members wanted, not black and white. My recommendation is that if you're critical regarding 2 channel enjoyment then you need to try them with the 30 day return guarantee.

NB
Got well fed :T
The Butler needs more hours but thoroughly recommendable as a VFM HT amp - more on this later.
Big L is writing up his personal review and I'll elaborate with more details on the specific improvements.

 

Well Big L has been busy, and already sent me his feedback for posting:


Skeptics beware!
First things first, I am one of THE biggest skeptics when it comes to those “enhancement” accessory products we all get bombarded with (No, I'm not talking about those XXX ones either). However, being the eternal merry-go-round audio upgrade person that I am, I find myself always wanting to try some of them. Rarely do I purchase any of them because they either don’t do what they were advertised to do or their cost doesn’t justify the small incremental change I might have heard. In this instant case, I figured what the **** because I didn’t have to do anything. My friend wanted to try them too, so he ordered a set of five so we could both try them in two different settings with different systems.

The PS Audio Harvesters arrived last week and he plugged them into his system. After several hours of listening he unplugged them to listen again. And,…nadda…no noticeable changes. He keep doing a before and after and stated he may have noticed a slight change but chalked it up to psycho-acoustics because he couldn’t tell when they were plugged in verses when they weren’t.

Fast forward to today. My friend arrives to give me an opportunity to listen to the Harvesters. He also had a Butler amp in tow as well. I told him let’s listen to the Harvesters first to get that ‘little’ trial out of the way and then we can move to the amp. We both were making fun of the Harvesters as I was plugging them in one in at a time around the first flour of my house (no disrespect towards you Paul McG). Something along the lines, “oooh look at the light blink” and “can you hear it now?” I sat down to listen critically and my friend picked up some magazines to read and be indifferent and dismissive towards this trial since they didn’t work over at his place.

IMHO my system is a well-balanced one with good top to bottom tonal quality and a decent soundstage (wide and deep). Not the final word by any stretch of the imagination, but a system I listen to at relatively high volumes without getting fatigued. To my surprise, I noticed a difference right away since I was playing a cd I was very familiar with and had played just before he arrived. My friend had also used the same disc as part of several he had used and was very familiar with the sound of my system.

Needless to say, he put the magazine down and started to critically listen. I switched between having them plugged in and unplugged and each time the change was noticeable and significant.

The Harvesters seemed to fill the sound stage in more by separating the instruments and making the sound stage have more depth and 3D like. I always felt my speakers disappeared in the room but the Harvesters showed they could really disappear. One way to test this observation was I moved out of the center sweet spot and moved laterally to be directly in front of one channel. I listened with and without the Harvesters and could hear the sound stage open up wider and go deeper. It was like a plume of sound moved from the farthest channel towards the middle enlarging the sweet spot.

I don’t know how these things work and perform their task (even after reading PS Audio’s propaganda), but they do work in my system. My friend left them for me to live with for a week and determine if there is a cost benefit factor to warrant keeping them. I am digging out all my familiar music to give them a workout. The final test is to use my secret weapon and number one critic -- my bride. I’ll let her listen to they system with the Harvesters plugged in and unplugged. She is younger and has different peaks and valleys in her listening range than I do. I trust her opinion because she isn’t afflicted with this audio sickness, or is it a hobby.

This certainly proves YMMV because my friend felt they were useless in his system, but in my system they did make a positive change. Go figure!

PS I hope the blue lights don't have an adverse affect on my eyesight due to wanting to stare at them for prolonged periods. Hahahahahaha!

 

Hmmm... so it worked in one place and not the other. Strange ain't it?

 

Looking at some of the user quotes on the PS Audio website I see similar comments to what we found yesterday. The two main variables may be system and quality of AC supply, this is the only explanation I can come up with as a non-Tekkie - But work they do, and very well in some systems.

 

Sorry for the delay getting back to this thread but stuff happens.

‘Your Majesty’ Phil, I like the avatar. One thing you Brits aren’t short on and that’s a quick sense of humor. Bravo! OBTW, from the picture, it looks a nice pad you live in, but a might damp and drafty during the winter months.

Waiting for my cds to arrive so I can get familiar with them before using them when I change something in my system.

Phil, the Harvesters took a 180 turn on your impression and you were man enough to step up to the plate and say so. Your's and big L’s review were very interesting and does make one wonder how the **** are these little gadgets doing it. After all, they are not directly in the current flow to the equipment but scattered though out the house.

If I were a gambling man, I would bet they pass the WAF test at Lou's and he is going to keep them in his system. I am going to save up some mad money and take the plunge on testing them some day in the near future. This thread and a few others about them has wetted my appetite and I want to make sure I have the money to keep them if they work out. I hope PS Audio continues the buy 4 get one free promo going for a while longer.

Well, I have to pack for a trip so it will be a while before I come back this way. If possible I will lurk while I’m gone.

Thanks again for the cd recommendations and this very interesting topic.

Laserman

PS Is someone else going to test them? Brucek, Danny, Leonard, Bob, Sonnie? Hey Sonnie why don’t you try them and see if they’re smoke and mirrors, or possibly the real deal in your system. I mean look at what happened with the Phil verses Lou trial. Come on southern hillbilly boy, put the beer down and order a set of five. I sense you want to do but feel you are hesitating because you’re afraid of all the jeers you’ll get from your good ‘ol rockin’ chair buddies. You could be the tiebreaker on these little tweaks. Just do it!

 

lol... ohhhh man... I can't afford them. I'm man enough to step up to the plate and admit it. heehee My status as a bonafide country ******* hillbilly won't allow it. I'm trying to figure out where to get gas money from since my corn has dried up due to the drought. Cows ain't got no grass to eat, our baby goose got ate by a hawk and the goats are gettin' cantankerous. :dontknow: