Different Wire Gauge

[tonyvdb]

brucek wrote:

Mmmm, video bandwidth is about 1000 times higher than audio. Makes sense to maintain uniformity in a cable transmitting +20MHz signals, but it's not too important when the upper limit of the signal is 20KHz (as in audio)....

brucek

Fully agree with you, just trying to explain it in easy terms without getting technical.

[alexadams77]

I guess that I am being lazy and should just call and see for myself how much the wire is going to cost.

I haven't noticed a difference with the stuff I have now, so I'm sure I won't notice it when the new stuff comes either.

[Anthony]

Rarely will the wire gauge make a huge difference in sound, especially for lower volume levels.

What happens when you move to larger wire is the speaker will sound louder IF the previous wire was too small. Basically, the small wire is too thin for the current (more resistance) heats up, and raises the resistance even further. So it limits the dynamics of the speaker a bit, but not much. Keep in mind, we're not talking about heating up the wire enough to start a fire.

The larger wire has a lower internal resistance and can handle the larger current loads, thereby allowing the speaker to get loud when it needs to.

The only time I noticed this difference was when I moved from throwaway lamp cord (18 gauge) to 12 gauge. Big improvement and I was hooked (this was over 10 years ago). I was worried when I "downgraded" to 14 gauge for my in-wall runs, because 12 gauge wouldn't fit in the conduit I ran. My worries were unfounded, the speakers sound great and I don't miss any of the music or movie.

So don't fret over it too much. When you feel the itch, I'd upgrade to 14 gauge all around and be done with it. If you want to put that off, you won't be hurting anything.

AC

[alexadams77]

I'm slowly revamping my entire HT and wire was on my list. I'll go 14 gauge for sure all around, but after reading some of the posts, I don't think that I need to make that change anytime soon though.

[drf]

May be a dumb question, but why are you replacing the wire if what you already have is sufficient?

Any install I do that is not going to exceed 70Watts gets plan old Figure8 flex, The Aus standard for this is 7.5 Amps which is sufficient for about 100/150 watts (assuming you aren't trying to run it over a few hundred metres)

[alexadams77]

I'm re-doing my HT Room/Equipment/Speakers right now and figure I'd do things right this time. The wire run from my AVR to the surrounds is about 50ft and I'm using 16 gauge wire. One of the wires wasn't long enough, so I had to add to that piece as well.

My Mains need to be spread out as I sit 12' away from the speakers, yet the speakers are only 7' apart. The wire for the mains isn't long enough and I don't have any spare wire laying around. Since I need to buy wire for the mains, I figure that I'd buy wire at the same time for the surrounds.

[Josuah]

No one has mentioned/asked what the speakers are. A minor increase in impedance due to running higher gauge wire means much more for speakers that might dip as low as 2 ohms than for speakers that drop to 8 ohms at their minimums. And in fact most of the gauges people have mentioned are thinner than what I would have used for those distances.

I am basically using 11awg to my subwoofers, mains, center, and left/right surrounds. Longest line is maybe 20 feet. I'm using 14awg to my rear surrounds at a distance of about 40 feet, but only because I wanted flat wire to run along the ceiling.

This is the mapping of gauge to distance that Secrets uses, and says that is the guideline for many including THX:

87' => 06awg
69' => 07awg
58' => 08awg
43' => 09awg
34' => 10awg
27' => 11awg
22' => 12awg
17' => 13awg
14' => 14awg
11' => 15awg
09' => 16awg
07' => 17awg
05' => 18awg

Of course, that's sort of infeasible for surrounds in many cases, and surrounds also tend not to have as much heavy duty work as mains or the center. And those numbers are most likely designed to be safe for speakers that are harder to drive.

If you've got 22 feet of 12awg copper wire, that's 0.035 ohms. If your speaker dips to 2 ohms, then the wire has a affect ~1.7%.

Alex is saying he'll use 50 feet of 16awg copper wire, which is 0.201 ohms. If his speaker is 8 ohms minimum, then that's only ~2.5%. But if his speakers dipped to 2 ohms, then that'd be 10%. If he went with 9awg copper wire, then it'd be back closer to ~2% with speakers dipping down to 2 ohms.

American Wire Gauge lets you do this calculation yourself.

[Scuba Diver]

www.outpost.com Not sure if they sell it online. Fry's store if you have one around you. Don't go to the stereo department. Go to computers and look at the wiring you will find good low priced cables. Was just in the store today. It was selling for $80.00 for 250 feet.

Ebay has had it on there for cheap.

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/p...roductid=16755

http://www.bestpriceaudiovideo.com/c...ac=4&zmap=2142

[bobgpsr]

brucek is right, for audio, given that the gauge is generally OK (12 gauge is good), then matching lengths is not important. Entirely different story for three 75 ohm impedance coax cables used for component video wiring -- they should be the same length due to the very much higher frequencies involved.

[hddummy]

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

I go by this. Check it out.

[ISLAND1000]

I defy anyone to point out or show me an audible difference or audio measurement difference "coming from the speakers" by using different gauge wire, as long as the wire is 16 gauge or thicker for runs of 0-50'.
In my world it just don't happen.

[Sonnie]

For a million dollars...

[bobgpsr]

ISLAND1000 wrote:

I defy anyone to point out or show me an audible difference or audio measurement difference "coming from the speakers" by using different gauge wire, as long as the wire is 16 gauge or thicker for runs of 0-50'.
In my world it just don't happen.

Depends on how much and how low of bass the speaker is using. Damping factor plays a big part in letting the power amp control the speaker cone accurately especially for the lower frequencies. It does not take very much extra resistance in the wire to affect the damping factor for an amplifier that has a very high one. Small satellite speakers crossed at 120 Hz may not really need 12 gauge wire.

[ISLAND1000]

A million dollars!!! . . . . . uh . . . . no . . . . how bout a buck two eighty?
And don't forget, I'm old enough to remember when Mr. Bell first banged some copper into threads to make the first wire . . . .

[Sonnie]

Ah shucks... I thought maybe you were ready to make one of those Jame Randi offers.

[Josuah]

ISLAND1000 wrote:

I defy anyone to point out or show me an audible difference or audio measurement difference "coming from the speakers" by using different gauge wire, as long as the wire is 16 gauge or thicker for runs of 0-50'.
In my world it just don't happen.

You could probably easily do it with some electostats, and 16awg 50' of wire. They can easily drop below 2 ohms at some points. That's why they're notoriously hard to drive. I don't have electostats, or 16awg wire.

[drdoan]

It would be great if people would do some real listening tests using different cables, bi-wiring, bi-amping, etc. Most of the stuff out in cyberspace is based on theory, or prejudice. My biggest problem with "high end" speaker wire and such like is: "is there really that much of an improvent based on price?" . My guess is that doubling the price does not improve the sound by two. Dennis

[lcaillo]

Your guess and observations are pretty much correct IME. There is not much relation between performance and price in many cases, and there is far to much chatter based on limited information, marketing hype, hearsay, personal bias, and assumptions. Those who have kept an open mind and done some real experimentation usually realize that there can be significant differences, but they bear little resemblance to the marketing that accompanies the product.

[Josuah]

You can buy exotic high end cables that change the sound by making the signal worse. Audio's all subjective!

[lcaillo]

Audio should be objective, but very few are willing to do the science to get past the subjective perspective. Listening and enjoying are subjective.

[thewire]

It isn't like buying a movie that one never watches more than blue moon. I think impulse buyers are the people that need some guidance, not the people with expensive cables. It is also important not to confuse the words expensive and exotic. High end cables cost more to make and therefore will always cost more than one that is made (not specifically meaning anyones) with average quality materials. It is however one of the last things that will improve a system.

[ISLAND1000]

I don't have the capacity, I can't resist so I yield . . . . to . . . . "thewire".

[drf]

And Island1000 charges up with another shocking electrical joke!! but I am a Faraid you'll have to do better than that.

[lcaillo]

Now this thread is finally starting to get me amped.