my room responses

[acoustat6]

Hello everyone, I have attached pictures of my room responses, included 2 waterfall graphs. There is no eq except for a Marchand Bassis which boosts and adjusts Q of my sealed diy subs, set at 38hz. The room is extensively treated with broadband and two types of panel traps a la Ethan Weiner Real Traps diy plans. There are currently 25 2'X8' traps and 15 2'X4' traps. I will be adding another 18 2'X8' traps at some point.
REW and bass trapping have been the most enlightening/revelation in my audio life. Thank you very much!!!!! I have been able to adjust my sub setting and main/subs positioning which was previously impossible to do before by ears alone. Also to be able to put a "face" to the sound is a revelation and makes it possible to really understand your system and rooms acoustics which was only "theory" before. Now I know what I am hearing. And loving it!

Thanks again,
Bob

[acoustat6]

Hello again, PS that is with 1/12 octave smoothing.
Bob

[acoustat6]

Oops, here is the graph correctly sized.
Bob

[acoustat6]

Oops again, and now down to 20hz! Also note the measurement is 74.2db not 75db because I have stepped attenuators and this is as close as I can come to 75db.
Bob

[acoustat6]

Ooops again and again, Now the watefall in a correct scale.
Sorry for keep doing this! I think I got it correct!
Bob

[JohnM]

Responses look very good. If you have the space then extensive treatment can reap big rewards, though with 40 already in place and 18 more to come is there room to squeeze in past all the traps? You could be a record holder on the treatment front.

[acoustat6]

Hi, my room is 16'X23' with a 13' ceiling at the peak. Then there is a loft area to my left with another 13' ceiling at the peak. This is in an circa 1850s converted barn, which is for my motorcycle collection and listening room. At this point most of the bass traps are in the front half of the room. The next 18 traps will be on the ceiling in the rear half of the room. There are 12 on the front half of the rooms ceiling. There is plenty of room without feeling claustrophobic. The first two pictures show the rear half of the room and third picture shows some of the free standing traps as well as some ot the traps on the ceiling.
The main speakers are Acoustat six, with DIY subs using eight froward and eight rear firing 8" eminent tech driveres in a sealed cabinet in a stereo pair for a total of 32 drivers. Crossed over currently at 120hz.

Bob

[Stretch]

I want your life.

Now that's a man cave!

[acoustat6]

Hello, And the number one reason for bass traps is...my DIY subs, a picture of them under construction, an in room picture and my early attempt at room treatment. And dont forget there are just as many drivers in the rear of the speaker. In the last picture you see my early attemps at "room treatment", its really laughable that i was told to use blankets...foam etc.. well it would be laughable if it werent for the fact that I wasted time even thinking this would help. And unfortunatly people are still being told to do this, by people who should know better. Plastic ficus trees anyone?

Bob

[acoustat6]

Hello, here are the graphs with no smoothing and with one octave smoothing.
Bob

[atledreier]

Now that is a nice curve! How does it sound?

[acoustat6]

HI, How does it sound? Yes, in a word fantastic.

There are so many ways it helps that it is impossible to think of them all in one post. First off is that I started like everyone else, not knowing what exactly bass traps do (without hearing it). I did know that I wanted a smooth and good freq range, thats a given. One of the basic tenets of audio reproduction, and it does not matter where the error occurs a bad freq response from your equipment or your room is still a bad freq response. that is why I built the subs I did and buy some very nice equipment over the last 30 years. Some of it I still use today in my system. The solid state SAE amps I have owned since the late 70s I am sure one of my first purchases after getting out of collage and had some money. I had been drooling for SAE since high school and the amps cost $800 back then! A stereo pair currently drives the subs. The Acoustat 6s I have owned since 1984 and previously owned Acoustat 3s before them. An ET2 tonearm for 20 years. My phono preamp, crossover and direct drive Acoustat tube amps are relatively new to me, within the last 10 years. I kept thinking, just why does it not sound great? Did I need to spend more money on equipment? I knew the answer to that one! NO! I had heard plenty of systems that cost up to 10 times what mine cost and it did not seem to make a difference. I mean how could $20,000 amps not sound great? $30,000 speakers sound horrible? I would go home and listen to my system at 1/10th the cost and say to myself, my system sounds just as good/bad/same as those. How could that be? You know the answer, they were all limited by the room!

That is the sad part, all along I could have been listening to great music but was told to put up a plastic ficus tree from Wallmart for dispertion, moving blankets and foam for taming the highs and nobody had a clue about bass. Or worse yet, was that I was told I needed to spend more money on a new piece of equipment! $3,000 does not buy a great preamp? How could that be? Just how much do you need to spend?

Some how I stumbled onto Ethans site and I was struck by lightning. Could this be the problem? I knew that turning up/down the bass or the volume levels was not the answer, from listening for years to my system and others. What was wrong? Why did my records sound so different in different houses, my own and my friends? I had heard Acoustats in my different houses and my friends owned Acoustats so I heard them in three different houses there also. So just why did my LPs not sound the same? Why did my friends like the sound of the LPs in their rooms but not mine and vise-a-versa.

A while back a friend of mine bought a LP (with some great bass on it) that I have, after listening to it at my house. He commented that when he got his copy he thought it was defective! He said there was no bass one it! How could that be? We just accepted it for what it was that we were hearing, I mean you are hearing it so it must be correct. And he has a more expensive (and better) equipment than I do. Was my system wrong? Was his wrong, one has to be right.

Just how loud is loud? How low of a freq response is low? How low do you need to go? I thought there are answers to this, and I had been working on this by myself for a number of years of critical listening. I was on the right course but it was not untill I started with bass trapping that the answer was really revealed.

I first started with corner traps and first reflection points of broadband absorbers. The change was signicant, bass was tighter with less overhang and the music sounded more natural. I knew I was onto something, thank you Ethan. I continued to read and think about bass traping and thought if this is the path, I must try real bass trapping a la Ethans panel traps. I started with treating the walls with free standing panel traps. Now I was really impressed. I started to get better bass levels and better high freq responses as the comb filtering was lessening and decay times started to come into reasonable levels.

This was it, now I knew what the problem was and it was not my subs nor my equipment or the music I listened to. I then treated the ceiling, this is in the front half of the room only. The rear half of the room ceiling is still untreated with 32 linear feet by 15 feet wide for a total of 480sq feet of surface that is currently untreated. I will be adding 18 more traps (288sq feet)and I will be "done"! There will then be a total of 45 traps for a total of 720sq feet of coverage. this will be approx 75% of wall and ceiling coverage. As much as I can do in this room due to the fact it is also used for my motorcycle collection.

I feel that in order to get a real feel for what basstrapping can do 1/4 of the room needs to be covered, you will then be able to hear it effects and you will be addicted! Nothing else will give you this performance , not cables nor a new amp or Shakti stones.

Have half of the rooms walls and ceilings treated and you will be there with very good sound, as much as most people need. Want to take it to the limit then 3/4 to probably 100% coverage is necessary. I have not tried diffusion and some say that perhaps the last 25% would be better with diffusion, but I am not experienced with that.

I have not answered your question "how does it sound?" in this post. I will answer that in following posts, as it is too multi faceted to continue here and i thought some background was in order first... and yes it sounds fantastic.

Bob

[atledreier]

So you have a mixture of broadband absorbers and some panel absorbers there? That's alot of treatment. Wish I had space, money and time for all that! Would be very interesting to see an unsmoothed measurement up to 1kHz or so. I guess you have very few SBIR issues, though.

[acoustat6]

Hi, Yes I have the 3 different absorbers in a repeating pattern around the room. I will take a measurement tomorrow and post it. I will also let you know the changes I hear.
Bob

[atledreier]

three kinds? I see broadband and panel. Do you count the corners as a separate kind, or do you have a trick up your sleeve?

[acoustat6]

Hi Atledreier, I guess its just two types! Broadband with the fabric covers, some are 4 inch thick (walls, with air gap) and the ones on the ceiling are 1 inch thick with air gap behind them. The other "two' types are 1/8th inch panel and 1/4 inch panel traps. There are broad bands in the corner 4 inch thick. So yea, I guess "the number shall be two".


Bob

[atledreier]

Hehe. I see. So no panel absorbers then, just different thickness broadband absorbers.

[acoustat6]

Hi Atledreier, No, there are indeed membrane panel traps. Here is a freq response out to 1,250hz. No Eq except for Marchand Bassis to boost freq below 38hz due to sealed box design. See pictures attached. The first photo is taken from in front of the listening seat looking up to the ceiling at the left Acoustat. Main speakers are out 6 feet. The second photo shows the opposite ceiling looking up from in front of the (right) main speaker and sub. Note middle panels on both sides have yet to receive their fabric.
Bob

[atledreier]

Now THAT's a decent frequency response! I wish I had a barn....

[acoustat6]

Hello, I have started on building the last sixteen 2'x8' panel/broadband traps for my room, which are going on the ceiling. There will be no more room (for more panels) after that! I have 10 of them currently built (yesterday) and will build the next 6 today and start attaching them to the ceiling today. I have off from work next week and will finish putting them up at that time. I will next week after they are all up take new graphs and post them.

Sorrr I have not answered the question on how these affect the sound, but I have not forgotten and will discuss it soon.

Also I have not thanked the creators of this site and especially the REW program. Here is a BIG THANK YOU! This is the best thing that has happened to me in audio along with the bass traps!
Thanks,
Bob

[acoustat6]

Hello, I have been busy building my last 16 bass traps. Here is a picture with most of the frames up. They are glued and screwed to the ceiling and then the sealed panel traps receive also a caulking on the inside to further seal the box. I have so far finished 3 broadband traps and several have the rock wool in place. I will post pictures again, soon, to show progress. I have a week off from work next week so I will have plenty of time to finish them and do some new measurements and listening.
Thanks,
Bob

[acoustat6]

Hello, I have 8 of the 16 new traps up and will take a new measurement before adding the last 8 traps. In the meantime here are acouple of pictures of the new traps along with the non completed ones seen in pictures.
Bob

[atledreier]

That's just wicked.

How's the highs affected by all that absorbtion?

[acoustat6]

Hi Atledreier, I think that contrary to "popular belief" that as you add more bass trapping the room become too dead in the high freq. This is not what I am hearing or measuring. As you get a flatter response not only do the high freq peaks come down (more dead?) the high freq nulls come up! Less dead! Music just sounds more natural with even pitch. The imaging become more precise and clear. I have not had to make any adjustments to "compensate" for more bass trapping, though I did in the beginning when I added the first 20 traps! That was because as I was initally compensating for a "bad room" and had trouble adjusting my system as nothing sounded correct due to to the severe peaks in an untreated room. How does one set a subwoofer level (to mains level)when you have peaks and nulls over 20db?
Bob

[atledreier]

I saw this as well, in my room. I think the key here is even response, and even (broadband) absorbtion. Some rooms get narrowband absorbtion and get a skewed response. Minse sounds good now too. Nowhere near as complete as yours but getting there!