REW Lite

[Chrisbee]

John

Have you ever considered a much simpler REW Lite for the average AV fan wishing to improve his sub's response in his own living room setting the BFD manually?

The present REW has all the whistles and bells a real enthusiast could ask for. But when discussing REW on other forums away from the expert help from yourself and the friendly mods here I often wonder whether it is actually fair to suggest REW to less deeply involved HT fans. The investment in time and effort to use your superb software may simply be too much for many.

The learning curve for REW is arguably too steep for many ordinary users who might otherwise benefit from a subwoofer improvement program. Would it be a real nightmare to pare REW down to a Lite version? A sort of REW for the Common Man?

[brucek]

A sort of REW for the Common Man?

I agree that REW isn't entry level by any means, but having two versions seems excessive. We're already getting it for free. Can we ask for anything more?

I personally feel that the biggest problem is that many people don't seem to want to read the HELP files. They are so well done and once read from cover to cover answer most questions.

I have contemplated lately (and have taken a small stab at it spread across a few threads) of writing up a "REW made EZ" sticky that would help those that were having trouble. I'll have to try and find the time to eventually do that... Is it a good idea or not?

brucek

[UNICRON-WMD]

brucek wrote:

I agree that REW isn't entry level by any means, but having two versions seems excessive. We're already getting it for free.

Can we ask for anything more?
brucek

Yea, a free mic and soundcard. It doesn't hurt to ask

brucek wrote:

I have contemplated lately (and have taken a small stab at it spread across a few threads) of writing up a "REW made EZ" sticky that would help those that were having trouble. I'll have to try and find the time to eventually do that... Is it a good idea or not?

brucek

That's a great idea!!!

[Sonnie]

brucek wrote:

I have contemplated lately (and have taken a small stab at it spread across a few threads) of writing up a "REW made EZ" sticky that would help those that were having trouble. I'll have to try and find the time to eventually do that... Is it a good idea or not?

Can you have this ready by tonight?

[Chrisbee]

It is always difficult to make such a suggestion without seeming critical of the author's considerable efforts and skill which he has shared so freely.

Of course no criticism is implied of John and his software. None at all.

My plea for simplicity was made in the interests of the many who would like to gain some control over their room modes. By adjusting the response of their subwoofer in a simple and easy way.

The short test sweep is ideally suited to those with limited time and resources. Stepped sinewaves are so time consuming in comparison and so antisocial without offering the success that such investment in time actually warrants. Once changes are made to the sub settings or position the whole sinewave rigmarole has to be gone through again. And again. And again. How many actually last the course?

Where else should the average subwoofer owner turn for help? Faced with the full complexity of REW many must shrink back from the task of mastering their room modes by this difficult route.

A much simpler plug and play sweep and graphing system would still use the RS meter. Or even better another cheaper standard microphone of known accuracy and much more importantly repeatability. The software would support the common onboard computer soundcards in most family PCs and set input and output levels automatically with a simple onscreen SPL meter. The resulting BFD filter suggestions would be set manually.

It's a shame Behringer or another manufacturer can't be persuaded to make a much simpler subwoofer filter box with simple and logical controls. Sales would surely go through the roof if the test software and updates were readily available online.

Such easily used software would surely offer an immeasurable service to the AV community worldwide?

REW Lite's popularity would spread across the global online forums like a virus. The magazines and dealers would recommend it to improve reader and customer satisfaction.

What is the only alternative? The SMS-1? Are you serious? I'm sorry, but that's just not going to happen in most cases. So 99% of subwoofers worldwide will go completely unequalised into the forseeable future.

Imagine the number of unequalised subwoofers out there in a year or three with the constant uptake of new AV surround equipment by the general public worldwide!

Simply controlling the peaks and booms would be a valuable social service to neighours everywhere.

Chrisbee

[JimP]

Having used REW before, I would have to say that I don't see how it can be made simple.

Its not simple because of all the things it has to do. You start eliminating those things, then it doesn't have the information it needs to accomplish the task.

[brucek]

Having used REW before, I would have to say that I don't see how it can be made simple

Yeah, my feeling is that if you don't want to use the advanced features, then ignore them.

From my experience of dealing with members who have difficulty with REW is that the majority of trouble (other than the failure to read the help files) comes from hookup/connection/wiring difficulties and soundcard setups. These have little to do with REW's complexity.

brucek

[Sonnie]

Actually I think Chris has a pretty good idea. Just eliminate everything that has nothing to do with a simple measurement sweep and adjusting frequencies. To some beginners it might make it look less intimidating with a couple of simple menus, etc.

However, I think this would require a lot of work on John's side... probably a complete redesign for another software program. With his work keeping him pretty busy (it's a very serious job), the REW software is a side hobby of his and it keeps him busy enough to keep the main program up to snuff.

[Chrisbee]

The idea of a Lite version of REW was only a suggestion and I cannot argue with your perfectly valid opinions. But do remember that there all levels of skill and understanding about subwoofer performance, the parameters involved and working with the most basic software.

It just seems incredible to me, in a demand driven world, that no simple LF filter box or basic test software exists for the average AV/HT fan to calm his subwoofer's in-room peaks. Perhaps they do but I just haven't heard about them?

Placing the burden for the test software on John's shoulders is of course quite unfair. Though his task would be made all the easier not with a more complex BFD but with a much simpler filter box of much more limited frequency range. Providing perhaps ten programmable (cut only) manually set filters in a single range from 10-200Hz. One phono socket in and one phono socket out with a small display to confirm the filter settings frequency, depth of cut and breadth. Reasonable audio quality is of course desirable.

Given what Behringer can do with £80-100 dollars retail in the BFD the sub filter box need cost no more than (say) $10.

I don't think the "average" AV/HT user is even slightly interested in REW or a BFD. As soon as I start to talk to 99.9% of all the people I know who own HT equipment about room response, frequency measurement in room peaks and the like, their eyes glaze over and drool starts coming out the corner of their mouths. They just want to stick a DVD in and watch a movie, thats all.

I think that, once you start messing with REW and a BFD you are no longer "average", you become an enthusiast. Sometimes this means learning something new. I admit to being a Noobie when it comes to REW and BFD's and all I use REW for is generating test tones. All the rest of the stuff I do manually.

I think I read somewhere that Behringer were thinking of producing a sub only processor. Did I read that here?

[fibreKid]

I must admit the first time I used REW I was nervous. Once I read the doc a few times I quickly got over it. I understand the feeling of the first timer but I wouldn't change REW.
This brings me to another subject. Has anyone seen the help videos that you can download for photoshop? http://www.russellbrown.com/ has links to very informative instruction in extreme detail. I wonder if something like this is what would make REW a little simpler for the person just getting started? I must admit I don't know how it's done but they are pretty slick.

-john

[Chrisbee]

brucek probably hit the nail on the head when he mentioned connections and soundcard settings as the major cause of novice's problems with REW.

These "minor difficulties" were certainly my own achilles heel in trying to use the software without reading any of the the help files first.

Reading the instructions was never my first priority. It was always a last resort if I couldn't work out how to use something from scratch with my own very fuzzy logic and intuition.

REW certainly brought out more "senior moments" than I might otherwise have wished.
I must fall back on my standard defense that "Those who made no mistakes probably never did anything.

[JohnM]

As it happens I am making a lot of changes at the moment to simplify and de-clutter the user interface, as part of that I have removed the old manual measurement features and I have allowed the app to work with the operating system's default soundcard selections as well as whatever manual selections the user might make (Bruce: don't go too far with a user guide as the new version will render much of it in need of a rewrite).

I'm currently completing a revised dialog to handle the level settings, once I've got that done I'll make a beta version for the mods to do some trials with. I may post a screen shot of the state so far as a little teaser but I'm away from home at the moment, will be back tonight but then I'm away on business until Thursday. The day job keeps me pretty busy, but REW gets the lion's share of my remaining time. I think the new version will have plenty to satisfy both the users wanting a simpler life and the more in-depth users wanting more features, but time will tell.

[Chrisbee]

John

I do hope you didn't think my "Lite" suggestion was a criticism of your hard work.

Once the fundamentals are absorbed it is great fun to be able to run sweeps with instant graphical results.

Small changes in positions, crossover points etc can be checked without a moment's delay. This places a powerful new tool in the hands of the AV enthusiast.

We all owe you a debt of gratitude for sharing your skills and efforts so freely with us.

Thankyou.

Regards

Chrisbee

[Sonnie]

JohnM wrote:

I'm currently completing a revised dialog to handle the level settings, once I've got that done I'll make a beta version for the mods to do some trials with.